4th of July Celebrations & the Angry Homos in the Audience

[MamimiFista]

So I'm visiting Wyoming with an Equality Ride/Equality House friend, Kevin. We went to the Cheyenne, Wyoming 4th of July celebration with his family to see the fireworks. We're sitting there and minute by minute getting more and more angry. There is this old woman at the microphone talking passionately about how we need to be patriotic and love our country because we all are free. She lists that we have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from fear. BULLSHIT! As she said each of these Kevin and I said angrily "BUT WE DON'T!". Because the LGBT community has none of these freedoms. During the Pledge of Allegiance we are told to say "one nation UNDER GOD" when Kevin and I aren't even Christians and even if we were Christians as homosexuals we aren't allowed in most churches, then when we go to West Point Military Academy to read a letter in protest of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" we are arrested (there goes freedom of speech), and as I am currently staying not an hour from Laramie, Wyoming where Matthew Shepard was murdered there goes "freedom from fear". Why can't the rest of the country see that we are NOT all free? We are in fear every day. Afraid we'll get fired for being LGBT, afraid we'll get evicted for being LGBT, afraid we will be physically or verbally assaulted for our sexuality or gender identity? During this season of patriotism I have one thing to say - WE ARE NOT FREE!

[Zerbie]

I know your question was rhetorical, but as a possible answer, I'd say they are not free either (though not in the same way as you, they do not have full freedom to dissent, should their thoughts even get that far) and they adamantly refuse to see so. It would scare them too much to believe that the government does NOT have their best interests at heart. Easier to believe in a benevolent government and believe the sound bytes they are spoonfed. And it feels like it's safer. Soon that house of cards is going to come crashing down on many of those people. The gap in wealth, the new bankruptcy laws, health care - all those teetering systems are going to collapse on many people, and already have been doing so. These people are keeping the wool over their eyes as they go down, seems.

[Rick336]

I think true freedom is the most powerful force on the face of the earth. That's why so many gays are coming out of the closet like never before. It's why many African Americans put their very lives in danger in the South during the Sixties. People love freedom.

But it just takes time. Women didn't get equal rights over night. Neither did religious and ethnic minorities. They had to fight for it. Freedom aint free.

I get pissed off too when I hear people talking about how all Americans are free because I know it aint so. So I just keep on protesting and donating money to gay organizations and writing letters to the editor and whatever else I can do so that someday gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people have equality and freedom to be ourselves.

And when that happens we can all have a huge fireworks display on the 4th of July and hug each other and have a good old time. It will be great. I'll even bring a couple of watermellons.

Rick

[inca nitta]

MamiFista,

It seems to me, like you are putting freedom and happiness on the same board, but it's not quite the same.

What you describe as freedom, is actually happiness.

My favorite book is 1984 by George Orwell. It is about a fictitious utopian society, ruled by the Big Brother. In this society, everybody has the same opinion and everybody is happy. Big Brother says that in order to create a society, we must choose between freedom and happiness, where one of the two must be tossed out. He chose happiness and totally rejected freedom for his people, because he says that if all people had freedom to say and do what they think, they would not know, what to do with their freedom, thus it would create a disorder and instability.

I found that the reasoning in your OP sounds exactly like that Big Brother character of that great Orwellian classic novel.

Just my opinion.

[Alecto]

So, by wanting the same freedoms that everyone else takes for granted, we're actually being fascist? I'm missing something I think.

[u-dog]

Yup... I'm confused too.

[andrewlittle]

MamiFista,

It seems to me, like you are putting freedom and happiness on the same board, but it's not quite the same.

What you describe as freedom, is actually happiness.

My favorite book is 1984 by George Orwell. It is about a fictitious utopian society, ruled by the Big Brother. In this society, everybody has the same opinion and everybody is happy. Big Brother says that in order to create a society, we must choose between freedom and happiness, where one of the two must be tossed out. He chose happiness and totally rejected freedom for his people, because he says that if all people had freedom to say and do what they think, they would not know, what to do with their freedom, thus it would create a disorder and instability.

I found that the reasoning in your OP sounds exactly like that Big Brother character of that great Orwellian classic novel.

Just my opinion.

Perhaps we read a different 1984. The point to the book was that differentiations like that are not only wrong, but very dangerous and abusive as they work out in public policy and culture.

To say anyone can be happy absent freedom, or free absent happiness, is dichotomous and reductionist. It seems like it results from a shallow reading of the book.

[inca nitta]

So, by wanting the same freedoms that everyone else takes for granted, we're actually being fascist? I'm missing something I think.

Like I said, I think that what you describe as freedom is actually happiness. I also think that wanting everybody in the society to agree with you is not actually wanting freedom, that's wanting happiness.

My philosophy goes like this: total agreement with everybody is the foundation of happiness, and I wouldn't call it fascist (that's a pretty strong wrong word:D), but I'd call it UTOPIAN.

[Alecto]

1984 = fascism. The word "Utopian" would techincally have very positive connotations, whereas the society you describe decidedly did NOT.

Let me be very, VERY specific about "what I describe". I'm talking about the very same freedoms (or "happinesses?") that everyone else ALREADY has. I'm talking about legal rights to housing, job protections, safety of person, and, yes, marriage to one's lover of choice. I think you need to explain a little how these aren't freedoms.
Also, I think it's a little hypocritical to say that by our wanting in on freedoms that already exist, we're asking for total agreement for everybody, but by people wanting us to agree with them that we should "stay in our place", that's somehow totally acceptable.