Maybe things aren't so bad after all

[keltic63]

Ok, let's list the good things that are happening for LGBT people.

Ralph Reed lost his lt. governor bid.
FMA was defeated in the House as well as in the Senate.


what else have you seen that is essentially good news for us?

[NathanATX]

FOF's response to Soulforce's Born Different campaign used Alan Chambers & Dr. Spitzer to back their position up. Could their desperation be more palpable? :)

[NathanATX]

From an email from James Dobson at Focus on the Family...

"Once again, the men and women representing their constituents in Washington have betrayed those who put them in power. Like the Senate did before them, the House has refused to protect the institution of marriage from activist judges bent on redefining it.–We certainly intend to tell them how their senators and congressmen voted on the Marriage Protection Amendment. We believe many of them will ‘remember in November. "

I should send him a bumper sticker!

http://www.cafepress.com/nonviolencegear.63056736
http://images.cafepress.com/product/63056736v15_240x240_F.jpg

[NonLemming]

I find it interesting that Dobson is looking and fighting to defend the institution of marriage, but totally ignores those who desecrate it.

How many in his flock are adulterers who have blasphemed marriage by divorcing and then remarrying?

Before panties get wadded up, let me make it clear that I do not believe the previous statement whatsoever. However, I have found that when arguing with fundametalists, it is best to use a language that they can understand, and so I will base my argument on the bible.

There is no argument whatsoever that a biblical literalist must agree that a person who is divorced and then remarries does commit adultery each and every time the new couple has sexual encounters. The exceptions to these, I believe, are: 1) innocent spouse is adultered against (and then he/she can remarry, but not the guilty party) 2) one spouse is non-Christian from start, and 3) death of spouse occurs, in which case remarriage is acceptable.

Now, given these strict criteria, by our modern standards (not to mention our nation's current divorce rate), I would expect that there is quite a laundry list of church members requiring excomunication or expusion from their church. (I can think of several national politicians that this would also apply to. (Are you reading, Newt?)

Perhaps the reason the church doesn't address this is because, if they did, a large percent of membership and income would be gone. Perhaps not, but, then again, perhaps.

Before the "Reverend" Dobson makes any pronouncement that addresses my rights to marry, I'd prefer that he put his money where his mouth is and address the sanctity of marriage from within his house. I believe he would find a foul odor.

[NonLemming]

And yes, Nathan, you should send that bumper sticker!:D

[NathanATX]

And yes, Nathan, you should send that bumper sticker!:D

I sent this email to his assistant...

Dr. Dobson,

I saw this quote of yours...

"Once again, the men and women representing their constituents in Washington have betrayed those who put them in power. Like the Senate did before them, the House has refused to protect the institution of marriage from activist judges bent on redefining it.–We certainly intend to tell them how their senators and congressmen voted on the Marriage Protection Amendment. We believe many of them will ‘remember in November. "

And wanted you to know you could get a bumper sticker that addresses this issue.

http://www.cafepress.com/nonviolencegear.63056736

Peace,

Nate Black

[NonLemming]

Very good, Nathan. Thanks.

[tdogg]

Ok, let's list the good things that are happening for LGBT people.

Ralph Reed lost his lt. governor bid.
FMA was defeated in the House as well as in the Senate.


what else have you seen that is essentially good news for us?

I was privileged to attend Saturday evening opening ceremonies for the Gay Games VII in Chicago. It was an awesome experience. I can post more later (maybe there is even a recent thread about it??). Good things from that - speeches that were positive, affirming, encouraging, supporting, welcoming; thousands and thousands of athletes from all over the world coming together to enjoy the culture, commaraderie, Chicago, the entire experience, and while most were GLBT many are straights that join hand in hand with us and our fight for equality and acceptance; even thousands more spectators, all joining together in joyful celebration of our community, who we are, and without any negativity - in other words, we could be ourselves and feel no repurcussions.

Good and surprising - the protests at least on opening day/evening were extremely weak. there were two people patrolling the side walk with large over the shoulder "Homosexuality is sin" cardboard gizmos; near Soldier Field, there was a small tent with a person spewing stuff out of a microphone and about 4 others standing around, no one engaging them - we were all to excited to get to the stadium. near the stadium perhaps 2 to 4 others trying to hand out tracts on sin. Otherwise, it was empty of our adversaries. Perhaps the focus was in Colorado??

Although we came home yesterday and missed most of the sporting events, I will never forget opening ceremonies, the participants and my new friends, and the emotions it drew out of me. It was deeply moving for me, and I am considering saving my money for the 2010 games in Germany. Perhaps as part of Team Sacramento?????

[keltic63]

There is no argument whatsoever that a biblical literalist must agree that a person who is divorced and then remarries does commit adultery each and every time the new couple has sexual encounters. The exceptions to these, I believe, are: 1) innocent spouse is adultered against (and then he/she can remarry, but not the guilty party) 2) one spouse is non-Christian from start, and 3) death of spouse occurs, in which case remarriage is acceptable.

Now, given these strict criteria, by our modern standards (not to mention our nation's current divorce rate), I would expect that there is quite a laundry list of church members requiring excomunication or expusion from their church. (I can think of several national politicians that this would also apply to. (Are you reading, Newt?)

Perhaps the reason the church doesn't address this is because, if they did, a large percent of membership and income would be gone. Perhaps not, but, then again, perhaps.



When this has been pointed out in a few other "christian forums" like the UMC forum or christianforums.com, divorced people get a "pass" from the fundies. They rationalize it away, then turn on "gay activists" for rationalizing away the 6 verses in the Bible that condemn us.

[NonLemming]

When this has been pointed out in a few other "christian forums" like the UMC forum or christianforums.com, divorced people get a "pass" from the fundies. They rationalize it away, then turn on "gay activists" for rationalizing away the 6 verses in the Bible that condemn us.

Exactly, the mirror can be cruel. Their refusal to deal with it doesn't mean I don't continue to bring it up. Funny thing, denial.