No feeding the dirty people

[Britt.]

Bullshit (http://www.local6.com/news/9550232/detail.html).

Seriously...

Makes we wanna go to gather people up, & go to Vegas (not to screw around in gambling establishments).

Whether or not I do that, if I purchase some food, which I do on a regular basis, I think I should be able to give it to anyone I want to give it to, especially if they need it more than I do.

I'm fairly confident feeding the birds in the parks is entirely legal.

[Jennifer5]

this is exactly what's wrong with this world. a few people do something good and try to help who they can... and then it become illegal... wow.. what a stupid law... and the opposite of what they should be doing.


thanks for sharing Britt.

[suzer1013]

At first I thought this was regarding a thread over at the UMC boards regarding open communion. But then I read the article. Atlanta has had some folks complaining about people who feed the homeless -- something about how it "attracts" more homeless. Oy. How about helping the homeless, rather than punishing them? At least, so far, it isn't illegal to give food to a hungry person here. However, Atlanta did pass an anti-panhandling statute last year. We don't want "those people" bothering our tourists on their happy-shmappy way down to the Aquarium, do we? Argh.

Susan

[Dash]

Makes ya wanna go feed some homeless don't it? Sort of a nonviolent protest, in the form of charity.

[BruceChris]

"The law, in it's infinite fairness, makes it ilegal for rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges" - Now who said that? Voltair, or some Frenchman, I think.

P&L, Chris

[suzer1013]

Makes ya wanna go feed some homeless don't it? Sort of a nonviolent protest, in the form of charity.

Let's do it! We can call it the Sandwich Revolution! My work hours make it difficult for me to participate in the various feeding ministries in town, other than donating items. I wish I could be out there in the park handing out food.

I once, when I bought my lunch, had them bag half of it (the portions were very generous) so I could give half to a homeless man I had passed on my way into the sandwich shop. By the time I came back out of the shop with my bags, there were two other homeless men standing there with the first, and I felt awful just giving the lunch to one, but I was out of money. I hoped, perhaps, they could share it, but it would have been a pretty meager lunch for three. I wished I'd had the money to go back and buy the other two some lunch as well. I probably should have just given away the rest of my lunch, as I'm far from hungry myself.

Susan

[NathanATX]

I truly believe that we need to raise our voices against ALL forms of injustice.

This horrible, classist, discriminatory action needs to be stopped.

[Zerbie]

Almost 4000 people voted YES to "should it be illegal to feed the homeless."

I hope most of those people were just screwing around, but I'm concerned that maybe they really think that way.

This law strikes me as evil.

[Vanessa White]

If a person must think about this logically, it just doesn't make sense that a person would choose to want to remain homeless, just to get a free sandwich here and there. If they are doing it to discourage homelessness, it is not going to be effective. Like all other human adversity issues, problems have to be solved from the root, not what they see as the result. Everyone wants a quick fix instead of looking at what causes the problem in the first place. I am ashamed to say that, a small city here in PA., very local to me, made national headlines two weeks ago by supporting a measure that makes English the official language of the city. The crime rate has increased at the same time that the Spanish-speaking population has increased, so I guess to make English the official language somehow defeats crime?!?!?! WHATEVER........

[Jennifer5]

really... if you don't feed homeless people.... the don't go away... they just go hungry... where are these people's hearts:'(

[SBP]

If a person must think about this logically, it just doesn't make sense that a person would choose to want to remain homeless, just to get a free sandwich here and there. If they are doing it to discourage homelessness, it is not going to be effective. Like all other human adversity issues, problems have to be solved from the root, not what they see as the result. Everyone wants a quick fix instead of looking at what causes the problem in the first place. I am ashamed to say that, a small city here in PA., very local to me, made national headlines two weeks ago by supporting a measure that makes English the official language of the city. The crime rate has increased at the same time that the Spanish-speaking population has increased, so I guess to make English the official language somehow defeats crime?!?!?! WHATEVER........

Laws like these are so called "feel good" measures for a lot of people to make themselves FEEL like they are actually doing something about a "problem" without actually DOING anything at all. Seeing as how the root of problems such as these can ONLY be addressed by people willing to, oh, get off their lazy, overprivileged behinds, and most seem loathe to do just that!

What they fail to realize, or just fail through lack of concern is that not only do these measures do NOTHING to alleviate the problem, in most cases they exacerbate it by making the targets that much more difficult to help. Not to mention being just plain mean spirited and punitive towards folks who's only crime has been to be "visible" and thus, "uncomfortable" for "regular" folks to have to see. Why? Because it reminds them of what they are NOT doing!

The saddest part, is that measures like these pass not because of a handful of spiteful people want them to....but because the masses of fair and well intentioned people do NOTHING to prevent them.

Remember the quote, "The only thing that evil needs to win, is for good people to do nothing."

Peace & Love 2 U All~

[Jennifer5]

Nice quote... I'll save that one...

Why is it that we can (our country) can spend to much on roads, weapons, and war... but our homeless are still homeless.... and it keeps getting harder and harder to take care of each other... because if we try to help it looks like we're the ones doing something wrong... you know... I'm going to copy that original post and send to all the people I know... even if that isn't many...

[Zerbie]

Okay, I've been poking around a bit to see what contact info I could find for the Las Vegas City Council.

See:
lasvegasnevada.gov/Government/council.htm

From what I could find so far, if you click on the City Council page, by clicking on the map, you can pull up a webform and type comments which will then go to the councilperson who represents that district. I was not able to find individual emails, but I didn't try all that hard yet.

If anyone else finds email contacts, please post. I am thinking, why don't we each send a brief letter to each member of the council?

[suzer1013]

Seems Orlando has just done the same thing. Story from Salon.com:

Orlando Bans Feeding Homeless Downtown

- - - - - - - - - - - -


July 25,2006 | ORLANDO, Fla. -- City officials have banned charitable groups from feeding homeless people in parks downtown, arguing that transients who gather for weekly meals create safety and sanitary problems for businesses.

The measure, approved Monday, prevents serving large groups in parks and other public property within two miles of City Hall without a permit. The American Civil Liberties Union vowed to sue, saying it's a superficial fix that ignores the city's homeless problem.

City commissioner Patty Sheehan pushed for the ordinance after complaints from business owners and residents that homeless people were causing problems at a downtown park popular with joggers and dog walkers.

A group called Food Not Bombs, which has served weekly vegetarian meals to homeless people for more than a year there, said it would continue illegally.


Robin Stotter, who is opening a restaurant downtown, said he would support homeless people by pledging money for food and shelter, but supported the ordinance.

"The homeless issue is not going to be solved today," he said. "It's a safety issue, and the public deserves a safe place to be."

Two of the city's five commissioners voted against the ordinance -- including Robert Stuart, the head of a homeless shelter.


Stuart said the city was moving to "criminalize goodhearted people."

"We're putting a Band-Aid on a critical problem," said commissioner Sam Ings, the other opposing vote.

[NathanATX]

Okay, I've been poking around a bit to see what contact info I could find for the Las Vegas City Council.

See:
lasvegasnevada.gov/Government/council.htm

From what I could find so far, if you click on the City Council page, by clicking on the map, you can pull up a webform and type comments which will then go to the councilperson who represents that district. I was not able to find individual emails, but I didn't try all that hard yet.

If anyone else finds email contacts, please post. I am thinking, why don't we each send a brief letter to each member of the council?

I just used the webform and sent the following message:

"I am very offended by the recent criminalization of the act of feeding homeless people. You should know that national & international social justice organizations are gearing up for a campaign to highlight the absurdity and the inhumanity of this action.

Will this just be one more tick on Las Vegas' reputation or will you take a stand for justice and human rights?

Nate Black"

[nowvoyager]

So these city councillors akin people to pigeons -- stop feeding them and they'll go away. This story lends the Good Samaritan parable an even greater revolutionary message. Do you feed someone in need or ignore them and hope they'll go away. Yes, lets bombard them with written criticism..

How about empowering the individuals to shake off their reasons for homelessness instead? I am proud to say that my city has sponsored a successful bid to host the Homeless World Cup in 2008, this is where teams of homeless people across the world are sponsored by businesses and charities to travel abroad and play soccer for their country. They were previously held in Edinburgh, and our Australian team did extremely well. The benefits; health, exercise, occupation and self esteem, were inestimable to the homeless participants.

How about Vegas try that with their ill-gotten taxes, instead of this absurd ordinance?

[Jennifer5]

I haven't written anything because I don't fully understand what to click on to send them an e-mail

[Zerbie]

Jennifer, when you go to the City site, find the map of the various districts/wards that includes photos of the councilperson representing each ward. Click on each section of the map - and a webform will (or should) open that you can fill out and then it will go to the office of the councilmember whose ward you clicked on, on the map. Clear as mud?

[Jennifer5]

okay, I guess the question now is which ward to send it to... a certain one? or all of them?

[SBP]

okay, I guess the question now is which ward to send it to... a certain one? or all of them?

Hi Jen~! If you have the time to do it, I'd hit ALL of them! That's what I'm in the process of doing~! With things like this, overkill is always better when trying to get your point across. It makes it less likely that you can be "ignored". Especially when you copy your letter (email) to the editor of the local paper as well~! ;)

Keep up your awesome efforts~!!

Peace & Love 2 U~!!!

[Jennifer5]

Okay... I'll do that tomorrow... to tired to think of what to write right now... thanks!:love:

[Lydia]

At first I thought this was regarding a thread over at the UMC boards regarding open communion. But then I read the article. Atlanta has had some folks complaining about people who feed the homeless -- something about how it "attracts" more homeless.

Sometimes I wonder if we (i.e. humans as a whole) realize that being homeless doesn't make someone any less of a person. People who live on the streets aren't animals.

[NathanATX]

Councilman Ross thanks you for your email and has asked me to respond on his behalf. It is important that you understand that the City of Las Vegas funds numerous programs to help the indigent and the homeless. There is a myriad of services available to those citizens who wish to partake of them.

Most of these services are available at downtown locations.

A situation has arisen which has pitted neighbor against neighbor and it has been difficult to resolve. A well-meaning citizen had been providing box lunches to the homeless at Circle Park, a small neighborhood park. As you can imagine, as the word spread that food was being given away, no questions asked, the numbers grew. The City had no problem with this citizen helping to feed the homeless, but unfortunately, after she distributed her lunches and left, a very large homeless population stayed in this neighborhood.

Homes were vandalized, individuals were defecating on front lawns, neighbors were accosted on the street, and it became a dangerous situation. The City prefers to direct those needy individuals to locations where they can receive more than a sandwich; a bed for the night, a shower, assistance getting medical care, employment or counseling. Although there are several organizations that do so, just providing food is not going to help these individuals become productive citizens once again. Homelessness is a national problem with no easy answers. Several months ago the City of Las Vegas formed a Task Force to investigate possible solutions. In the meantime, this ordinance was instituted to protect a neighborhood that had been taken over by criminal activity.

Please let us know if we can provide further information.

Tuesday James
Liaison to Councilman Ross

[Jennifer5]

He sounds like he's being very reasonable... which seems rare. Apparently there is more to be said... but from what I hear, he has good intentions...

[NathanATX]

Dear Mr. James,

Thanks for your reply. I can understand how a community would feel overwhelmed and possibly frightened by the seeming "new" numbers of homeless there. However, after reading your response it still looks like the city government is simply trying to "sweep the problem under the rug," hoping that if they criminalize the act of caring for the hungry, the hungry will go somewhere else. And, yes, that may just be what happens.

Whether the homless population stays or leaves, the world is looking at your city, it's people and leaders. These actions are not worthy of the freedoms, rights and blessings we all have, as American citizens. These actions most certainly are an affront to the core values of love, compassion, care for the poor and hungry, that many religions champion.

I challenge you, Councilman Ross, the entire City Council and the Mayor to come up with a solution that honors the sacred worth and dignity of every human being. Yes, searching for the best answer to homelessnes is a difficult challenge. What you have done by criminalizing the act of feeding the hungry is most certainly not the answer.

I will continue to spread awareness about the situation in your city. I pray you will all have the wisdom and compassion of Christ as you seek a just and dignified solution to the challenges you face.

Sincerely,



Nate Black
nate@nateblack.us
www.nateblack.us

[Jennifer5]

okay... you through me off nate.... you are so kind a loving over here... but the worst seems to come out in you sometimes on other forums... i don't get it...

[NathanATX]

okay... you through me off nate.... you are so kind a loving over here... but the worst seems to come out in you sometimes on other forums... i don't get it...

If you notice, my initial email to the Las Vegas councilman was pretty sharp. Then, his response came back and you could tell they are "trying" to do their best. So my response then comes from a coaching and advisory standpoint... instead of simply condemning their atrocities.

I can be very aggressive... which I don't think is a problem. But when I am simply being "angry" and irresponsible with my words... well, that's where I'm growing.

[Zerbie]

I can be very aggressive... which I don't think is a problem.

Depends what you mean by "aggressive." if it means sharp or harsh, then it can be a problem because it will immediately put the other person in a defensive posture, and then there will be much back-pedalling before reconciliation can be had.

The trouble with expressing our anger in sharp or harsh ways to those with whom we disagree, is that then they feel "attacked," and this makes them more likely to believe they were right all along and that we were not. Even if we are in the right. Then when they respond with sharpness, harshness, anger, WE feel attacked, and the cycle continues. At some point, it ceases to matter who started it, and becomes a question of who is going to stop it.

That's why non-violence principles, A) work, if you can master them, and B) are so damned hard to use.

Love you Nate. Thanks for your letters. I still hafta write mine. :p

[Britt.]

Yeah, Nate. I have to work on that sometimes too. It's part of the reason I don't get into online debates often, since it's harder to control when you can't see or hear the other people involved.

I wasn't sure if I should email about this or not, since I'm not a constituent there, but I suppose that shouldn't matter. Good letters, Nate. I'll write my own in a bit. Debating whether or not call.

Here is other contact info if anyone else wants to take that approach (or snail mail):

City Hall, Tenth Floor
400 Stewart Avenue
Las Vegas, NV 89101
Phone: (702) 229-6154

[NathanATX]

Depends what you mean by "aggressive." if it means sharp or harsh, then it can be a problem because it will immediately put the other person in a defensive posture, and then there will be much back-pedalling before reconciliation can be had.

The trouble with expressing our anger in sharp or harsh ways to those with whom we disagree, is that then they feel "attacked," and this makes them more likely to believe they were right all along and that we were not. Even if we are in the right. Then when they respond with sharpness, harshness, anger, WE feel attacked, and the cycle continues. At some point, it ceases to matter who started it, and becomes a question of who is going to stop it.

That's why non-violence principles, A) work, if you can master them, and B) are so damned hard to use.

Love you Nate. Thanks for your letters. I still hafta write mine. :p

My intention is to not "be" angry when responding to something/someone. The thing is, bullies don't expect a powerful response... and that's what I deliver. I'm definitely a "work in progress" and you're right, the nonviolence principles are very challenging.

In the face of injustice, I respond powerfully and with righteous indignation.

Martin Luther King wasn't afraid to look injustice in the eye and call it evil.

I just need to make sure I am laser focused on injustice itself and not on people... because that's when I might make a mistake.

[NathanATX]

Yeah, Nate. I have to work on that sometimes too. It's part of the reason I don't get into online debates often, since it's harder to control when you can't see or hear the other people involved.

I wasn't sure if I should email about this or not, since I'm not a constituent there, but I suppose that shouldn't matter. Good letters, Nate. I'll write my own in a bit. Debating whether or not call.

Here is other contact info if anyone else wants to take that approach (or snail mail):

City Hall, Tenth Floor
400 Stewart Avenue
Las Vegas, NV 89101
Phone: (702) 229-6154

I wrote it as a tourist & visitor... I just might be spending my dollars in some other state's casino. Seriously though, the undercurrent of my message is the possibility of a negative public opinion and that translates to tourism dollars, which they are VERY concerned about.

[Jennifer5]

I understand what you mean Nate... it's a hard situation...:love: I was just shocked to see that side of you:love:


I've been gone most the day... but still hope to write that letter this evening or tomorrow.

[NathanATX]

I understand what you mean Nate... it's a hard situation...:love: I was just shocked to see that side of you:love:


I've been gone most the day... but still hope to write that letter this evening or tomorrow.

I should come with a warning label:

Warning: This uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll may TRANSFORM into Wolverine from X-Men if he senses ANY social, political, or religious injustice. If this happens, point to the injustice and then go hide under the covers. It might be good to put your fingers in your ears. It won't be pretty. That is, until the injustice is gone. Then everything will be pretty again, especially your uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll.

[SBP]

I should come with a warning label:

Warning: This uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll may TRANSFORM into Wolverine from X-Men if he senses ANY social, political, or religious injustice. If this happens, point to the injustice and then go hide under the covers. It might be good to put your fingers in your ears. It won't be pretty. That is, until the injustice is gone. Then everything will be pretty again, especially your uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll.

Nate: LOL...let's just hope that "Mattel" has awesome liabilty insurance~!! ;)

[Zerbie]

I should come with a warning label:

Warning: This uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll may TRANSFORM into Wolverine from X-Men if he senses ANY social, political, or religious injustice. If this happens, point to the injustice and then go hide under the covers. It might be good to put your fingers in your ears. It won't be pretty. That is, until the injustice is gone. Then everything will be pretty again, especially your uber sweet & fabulous Ken doll.

:) Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You do have two distinct sides when it comes to these things.
At the risk of pissing you off, I wonder if you would have better reactions to your activism if the Wolverine part becomes the motivator of your action, but not the persona doing the talking. Strong angry responses scare people away, and cause them to slam doors shut that we want open. Just a thought. Take it or leave it.

:love:

[NathanATX]

:) Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You do have two distinct sides when it comes to these things.
At the risk of pissing you off, I wonder if you would have better reactions to your activism if the Wolverine part becomes the motivator of your action, but not the persona doing the talking. Strong angry responses scare people away, and cause them to slam doors shut that we want open. Just a thought. Take it or leave it.

:love:

I hear what you're saying... and I know that I have lost my cool in some of those message board conversations. A) It's usually in response to incredibly vulgar and nasty posts from people who profess to be christians. B) It's online -- I rarely get someone brave/hateful enough to be that nasty in person, so I haven't gone into Wolverine mode in "real life. C) I know that regardless of my "justications," I am still responsible for my words and who I am creating myself to be in the world. To that end, I am striving to learn how to "be angry without sinning." Most of the time when I'm angry at something someone does or says, I am speaking very clearly to the WRONG/INJUSTICE of what they have said or done... and I don't feel I am out of line at all.

Shepherds have to fight off the wolves every once in awhile. I don't think we should be at all timid or worried about "scaring" an attacker. The attack is what has to stop.

I hope it's clear that I am very open to disagreeing with people and having intelligent, compassionate conversations with anyone... But when the words or actions cause harm, I will confront it.

[Zerbie]

I hear ya Nate, and you are a WONDERFUL person, and doing wonderful things as well.

It's a fine balance that we all struggle with. Yes, you DO have to confront cruelty and injustice. Yes, I believe we are obligated to say something counter to it when it walks up and smacks us in the face, or the smacks the person standing next to us in the face.

It's a matter of HOW we go about challenging it. We have to point it out and oppose it but to try and do so without unnecessarily cutting, harsh, or vitriolic words on our part. State the opposition and state the WHY, without returning the slap on the face.

Yes, you're right to confront these things and I thank you for doing so. Keep it up, and keep being aware of how you choose to make your responses. You're an exceptional human being and you are doing wonderful things. Just imagine, someday you will be doing even wonderful-er things. :love:

[Jennifer5]

I hear ya Nate, and you are a WONDERFUL person, and doing wonderful things as well.

It's a fine balance that we all struggle with. Yes, you DO have to confront cruelty and injustice. Yes, I believe we are obligated to say something counter to it when it walks up and smacks us in the face, or the smacks the person standing next to us in the face.

It's a matter of HOW we go about challenging it. We have to point it out and oppose it but to try and do so without unnecessarily cutting, harsh, or vitriolic words on our part. State the opposition and state the WHY, without returning the slap on the face.

Yes, you're right to confront these things and I thank you for doing so. Keep it up, and keep being aware of how you choose to make your responses. You're an exceptional human being and you are doing wonderful things. Just imagine, someday you will be doing even wonderful-er things. :love:Well put... I think it's just that.... we all just have to be aware of how we do things:love:

[tdogg]

In California, many of our homeless people became homeless when prior government closed down most of our mental institutions and booted them out. Not to defend the insitutions' treatment of them, but it was their home and then suddenly they had no home. Many didn't even have family or famlly that was willing to take care of them. So they scrounged for what they could get, made homes at the river, under bridges, between downtown buildings, wherever they could find a little shelter and try to get semi-caring passers by the give them change or a little food.

Not all homeless are a result of this, but many are. To think of the possiblity of committing crime by giving them a little food just makes me sick. If the resources used to bring the Las Vegas move into law were used to proactive ways to resolve this issue, it probably could have been done. The vast majority of people, including politicians and your average working citizen do not want to face this issue, nor do they care too much about it - well, apparently at least until the homeless are sitting in their yard trying to survive. I feel lucky to live in CA, it's not perfect here by any means, but at least we can still buy Mc D's for our local homeless friends. :rolleyes: