Feeling discouraged right now
 

I hope no one minds if I vent and ask for a little nod of acknowledgement.

:(

Was at the grocery store today - I live in a very right-wing dominant neighborhood and the times I run into people who strongly oppose LGBT equality is when shopping. I wear some equality jewelry and gay pride stuff, basically every day, and at the store, clerks have been known to point me out to one another and whisper. I'm actually kind of used to it now. Then today, the guy bagging my groceries told me he signed the petition to get the anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot when they circulated it at his church yesterday. I asked if it was important to him to do that, and he said, "No, but it was a church thing, so I signed."

WHY WHY WHY do churches have to engage in organized cruelty? Why Why Why do people jump onto a political agenda they might not know anything about just because someone tells them to? Without finding out about the implications of what they are doing? Without thinking for themselves first?

Are most people that uninterested in thinking about these issues that they will just sign a petition because 'it's a church thing?"

Should I switch grocery stores?

And another thing bothering me is reading reports that the administration is apparently compiling "pink lists" - which leaves me feeling unsettled and unsafe, what with my name and full contact information belonging to most of the national LGBT groups and all the local ones, including the university coalition. Most of the time, I feel optimistic and hopeful about how things are going, but the days come when I feel frightened that we might be facing even more danger than what we've seen here in my lifetime. So I'm feeling insecure. :(

Oh, here's the site address for where I read about that:
http://365gay.com/newscon05/12/122005sldn.htm

Thanks for listening! Can anyone spare a cyberhug?

Zerbie:pray:

Re:
 

First, in regards to the admin. anti-LGBT initiative; I have no idea if it is valid or not.

Prejudice & discrimination is never okay or right. Our equality is a struggle, but we have to go through it in order to win victory.

Churches are supposed to be seperate from state, but w/ the Rel. Right's propaganda & initiatives, they seem to be ignoring it (despite being in the Constitution).

However, some churches (like in the UCC) do participate in liberal activism to counter that of conservative and/or extremist organizations. One such division is the Ministry of Justice of the UCC (see: www.ucc.org/index1 & click on minstries for details).

Don't give up & stay well. You'll in my thoughts & prayers. Below is a quote from Mel White's Stranger at the Gate book that has inspired me in difficult times:

"I want to tell young lesbians about Sappho, the lesbian poet, who lived six centuries before Christ. Our spirits are still lifted by the fragments we have of her lyric Greek verse. I want to tell the young gay man about the enduring love of Alexander the Great for his general Haephaestion, and later for his servant, Bagoas. Next time somebody calls you a 'faggot,' I would like to say, remember Alexander, the most powerful man in antiquity. I want them to remember Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Virginia Woolf & Vita Sackville-West, Tshanhkovsky & Schubert, Gertrude Stein & Alice B. Toklas, Walt Whitman & Herman Melville, Edna St. Vincent Milkey, Oscar Wilde, Amy Lowell, Noel Coward, Katherine Cornell, James Baldwin, Carson McCullers, Henry James, Rosa Bonheur, Jean Genet, Bessie Smith, Christine Jorgensen, and Eleanor Roosevelt"
- Mel White, Stranger at the Gate.

Blessings,

Sol Invictus

Thank you.
 

I've noticed my activism and moods about activism go through optimistic cycles and discouraged/frightened cycles. I'm in the weak cycle now. Thanks for including me in your prayers - it's appreciated a lot!

Called my husband up just now (I'm at home, he's at work) and when he answered, he was in the middle of a conversation with a (gay) friend, chatting about where we would all live if we flee the country. It's a conversation we've had several separate times over the past few years, when we're feeling spooked by the patriot act stuff, the anti-gay witch hunts, etc. It struck me as ironic that DH was having a conversation about these exact same things with one of our friends at the same exact time I was posting here.

I liked your (Mel's) list. I LOVE Edna St Vincent Millay - a friend once told me that she was bi, and that her poems reminded him of me. Have you ever read her poems? Renascence is really great, and she was only something like 17 or 18 when she wrote it.

Re:
 

Yeah, these witch-hunts are scary (I've even considered moving to Canada). However, some progress has made over the past few decades, and I believe it will / must continue. Keep in mind: pro-gay groups are not the only suspected groups monitored by the FBI: current evidence (see www.democracynow.org) suggests anti-war/pro-peace student groups, eco-friendly groups, & even religious groups that oppose the war are/have been monitored by the FBI...

Interesting times...

No, I haven't read his poems (will have to now :-). I have read literature by Walt Whitman & Herbert Melville though, so that was a cool connection. BTW, the famed Lawrence of Arabia was also a gay man of the past. Being a classical fan, it was also great to find out Schubert & Tch. were gay too.

Classical composers
 

Being a classical fan, it was also great to find out Schubert & Tch. were gay too.[/QUOTE]


Well, while we're going there let's add Handel, and my personal fave, Ravel. And Copland, Bernstein, Samuel Barber, Menotti. . .probably lots of others I'm forgetting.

Edna St Vincent Millay was a chick, by the way. ;)

Meanwhile, yes, I was aware that peace groups and such were also on FBI lists. It tends to freak me out every time I hear of another one of these spying things, as if peaceful social justice groups are somehow akin to terrorist cells. How awful! It really scared me to think that the FBI might have my name somewhere because of the groups I belong to, and because I've been at a couple of rallies in the recent past.

Thanks for your responses though. I AM calmer now. :)

Re(2):
 

Thanks for the correction & anytime in regards to my responses.

In regards to the FBI name list, it is difficult to say who is on it, but supposedly a petition is underway to reveal what people & groups were monitored under the Freedom of Information Act.

Best wishes & blessings,

Sol Invictus

Peace to You.

Hi Zerbie!

First, since you needed a little encouragement, I thought "Hummmm... what interests Zerbie? Oh yeah, plush bunnies and activism." So here's something to help keep ya' going. :)

http://www.soulforce.org/images/energizer_bunny.gif

Second, I was wondering about the employee at the grocery. When he said he signed the petition, what was his attitude? Did he project an attitude like, "Yeah, we conservative Christians are protecting marriage." Or was it more like, "Yeah, I signed the petition cause my church sort'a wanted us to."

*Omigosh, wow!*
 

[QUOTE=Jamie McDaniel]Hi Zerbie!

First, since you needed a little encouragement, I thought "Hummmm... what interests Zerbie? Oh yeah, plush bunnies and activism." So here's something to help keep ya' going. :)

Jamie, you remembered about plush bunnies!!! Omigosh, the Energizer Bunny?!??!! I squealed out loud when I saw that!! Wow!

What can I say? With encouragement like that, I'm definitely staying in for the long haul!!!!



http://www.soulforce.org/images/energizer_bunny.gif

Second, I was wondering about the employee at the grocery. When he said he signed the petition, what was his attitude? Did he project an attitude like, "Yeah, we conservative Christians are protecting marriage." Or was it more like, "Yeah, I signed the petition cause my church sort'a wanted us to."[/QUOT

Okay, to answer your question, this guy strikes me as kinda unintelligent and weird. I've seen him all year, and honestly, he makes me uncomfortable in general - always chatting about weird things (like his teeth), etc. So it made me doubly nervous yesterday. His attitude at the time was along the lines of your second option above, like he just signed the petition because it appeared at church, "it was a church thing" he said. But he's expressed dislike for same-sex relationships before too, so maybe it's really both. Yech!
Funny - there is a cashier working there who gave me a sick-to-the-stomach look when she asked about a button I was wearing and I told her it meant I support same-sex marriage, and she was nervous about touching my groceries after that. !!! But I have no trouble going back and getting in her line again and chatting with her about the weather. But this bag dude makes me very uncomfortable, so I'm thinking I might just switch grocery stores. He seemed to believe I should agree with the petition, so I think he's reading my propaganda all backwards, like he thinks I'm anti-gay, rather than "one 'a them militant homaseckshuls."

My husband said I should have asked what church he was at that circulated the petition, since we live in an 80% Mormon neighborhood, and it's against Mormon church law to circulate political petitions at their churches. He said if it was a Mormon church doing this, he would have complained to the officials in Salt Lake and they would throw all the petitions out.
So now I'm angry at myself for not pursuing a discussion with this grocery bagger, but to be even more open with you than I was yesterday, I started feeling intimidated so I backed down and just got out of the store as fast as I could, without really "going there." I felt too afraid - and that happened a few weeks ago also at the hairdresser, when the subject started to come up and I found out my hairdresser is one of those people who won't watch Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings movies because they have witchcraft in them, and therefore come from Satan. So I really didn't want to go there with gay rights - and then, this thing at the grocery store. I feel like such a pathetic little wimp!

Thanks for all the encouragement, both of you.
And Jamie, all I can say is, with the Energizer Bunny working with us, we're bound to overcome given enough time!
:D :D :D :D :D

Lgbt
 

When I came out at my first job (a librarian in a small, conservative town), some co-workers stopped talking to me; afraid to "touch me" as you mentioned; and some mothers wouldn't let their children come near me.
Hence, why I am much more careful now. Unfortunantly, fundamentalists associate homosexuality with pedophilia, which are not related to one another.

Fortunantly, being a teacher now, it is nice to be able to prove my co-workers wrong. One co-worker later apologized whereas the other dislikes me just bec. of my orientation. Its sad & ignorance is such a enemy that has to be fought with education and accepting minorities.

Anyway, keep up the good work & be well.

Happy Holidays!

I'm sheltered
 

Well I must be sheltered then. As I said, the grocery store is the only place I notice that kind of stuff, in recent years. In the late 90s I came out to a doctor who then promptly told his entire office staff I was molesting children. Unbelievably stupid - and one of his staff was a lesbian who quit her job after that, called me up, and told me, otherwise I would have kept going to that doctor never knowing what he was telling people about me. But since the late 90s I haven't personally run into that stuff anymore, and it must be my environment. As I mentioned, I'm in the arts. When people in my daily life find out I'm into LGBT activism they usually smile and cheer, and often ask me to update them so they can sign petitions and stuff like that.

So is it still THAT unusual to be in an environment like this? It just feels normal to me. I'm really sorry if most lgbt people are STILL facing garbage on a regular basis like what I ran into with that doctor. That's horrible!

Re:
 

Keep in mind, I live in very conservative SE Ohio, the middle of the so-called "Bible Belt." Some places are more tolerant than others, such as where I attend church in a city 30-40 minutes away. Its in the dominant fundamentalist towns where I have encountered problems; not the cities.

Those librarians, I think, are not the norm. Most are nice, liberal/moderate, and encourage diversity. However, it still feels good to prove those former coworkers wrong. Actually, I still talk to the librarians from the area, but not at the branch I previously worked. I worked in one of the small towns I mentioned - the libraries affiliated that are 20-30 minutes away are much nicer & tolerant.

LGBT discouragement and thoughts
 

I totally understand your discouragement. It still amazes me, although, I don't think about it much anymore, at how when a person comes out of the closet and people have known this person for years, all of a sudden it's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. They all think that he/she has an evil, dark agenda, and is out to subvert all that's good and decent. Hmm, let's think for a minute about well-known subversives who WERE evil and WHO did have dark agendas-Adolph Hitler (straight) I don't think I need to mention anything about him-his name speaks for itself, Joseph Stalin (again, his name speaks for itself), Charles Manson (total wierdo), just to name a few-all these people had dark, evil agendas. The only agenda I have seen gay people have is to get the civil rights and freedoms the Constitution gives us. The evil agenda that the Religious Right says we have, THEY MADE UP, to keep us LGBT people in our place. What goes around comes around, because they did the same bloody thing in the early 1900's to keep the black people in their place. It is the same thing and it's root cause is FEAR.

I am going to make a really bold statement-the Bible says that our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities that rule this dark world- our struggle is not against the Religious Right-Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Pat Robertson and such- it is against the idol they worship called FEAR. FEAR is a powerful and intoxicating demon and satan loves nothing more than to send it out to RELIGIOUS people who invite it in and they make it a home in their hearts and minds. And it feeds and foments and makes you crazy a little at a time. MY BIBLE says that GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF FEAR.

Yeah we live in scary times-but what if we are here for such a time as this?
What if we are Esther during the time of Haman, and we need to be strong and courageous?
What if we are Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, and we need to speak out and fight for what our Constitution gives us?
What if we are slaves during the Civil War and the nation comes to blows over whether or not we are really people or not?
What if we are 6 million Jews who today are the symbol of what fear and hatred did to one man?
What if we are Kurds or Palestinians who have no country?

We keep going through this same struggle because we haven't learned the lesson that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, it is against powers we cannot even see, but we must learn to recognize them when they come against us. Our most powerful weapon is prayer. We need to be out, visible, love people when they don't love us. My Bible says Love casts out Fear. That is the only way. We need to be teachers, coaches, doctors, nurses, lawyers, moms, dads, everything we need to be out and visible and let people know that we are normal people who just want to live our lives like they do. We want retirements, we want our kids to go to college, we want to live in nice neighborhoods, we want the life that the Constitution of this country says we have a right to have because we live here.

Forgive me for preaching and I hope in some small way it helped. If not, forgive my ventings and rantings. I feel strongly about it, or could you tell?:pray:

pnggrad79,
I was called a Jekyll and Hyde when I came out 2 years ago. When I talked to my children about it (the 2 teenagers, the youngest is still too young to tell him too much) I explained that I wasn't a different person, that I'm still their dad, it's just that they now had more information about me. So, if I was a nice guy, and people liked me before I came out, it should stand to reason that I am still that same nice guy. A couple of people who I'm very close to used the standard (but genuine) "it doesn't matter to me, I still love you." My reply was always "I didn't expect anything different."

you hit a couple of points that really resonate with me. Jekyll/Hyde was one of them. Your reference to Hitler as straight reminded me of some rumors that he may have been gay, although I don't think there has been any solid proof. ESTHER!!!! that is one of the scriptures my pastor used to help me through some tough times. I truly believe that I was put in this particular church, and that my Pastor was brought into my life "for such a time as this."

and as for all the other things you stated above: Keep on Preaching it, sister!

jekyll and hyde
 

keltic,
I am so sorry they called you that. But I can totally relate. I came out last year to my two sisters, who now, all of a sudden won't let me near their children. It is as if they are afraid that by being around me that their kids will catch my "disease". It is just ludicrous! Completely and totally stupid ignorance and fear. Again, don't get me to preaching. I am still the same person I was only now I am not lying about who I am. I am an authentic person because I am not ashamed of who I love. I am not ashamed for the way I feel and if that is not the person THEY want me to be, then I am really sorry. But I am not about to go around living my life according to their standards.

I hope you get to see your kids for Christmas. Mine have to go with their father tomorrow. Merry Christmas!!!:D

Keep Preaching
 

Thank you. I agree w/ keltic - keep on preaching. You are a powerful speaker/writer. Agreed, fear is our enemy, and it must be fought.
With the "disease" thing; know how you feel - been there, done that.
Luckily, my mom & stepdad have been very supportive & understanding, but it took about 2 years for them to accept it.
With my dad, thats another issue...
Personally, I may finally have a boyfriend, and I feel I could be intimate with him. Strange, how things work out. God works in mysterious ways :-)
In regards to children, yeah understand w/ u there too - I would never hurt a child. Most LGBT or heteros wouldn't do such a thing.

Merry Christmas to You & Everyone,
Peace and Keep up the Good Work,
Sol Invictus

Wow - one day without internet, and I missed this whole great conversation!

pnggrad, I enjoyed your long post. You are right about fear, it is its own energy and can do a lot of damage. Sometimes it still bothers me, as I was feeling intimidated when I made the original post. It amazes me there is still that much in me, when I keep moving past new walls of it every day. Amazing.

Anyway - y'all have a merry Christmas and Hannukah today!

Hugs all round!
Zerbie:) :love: :D

... Then today, the guy bagging my groceries told me he signed the petition to get the anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot when they circulated it at his church yesterday. I asked if it was important to him to do that, and he said, "No, but it was a church thing, so I signed."

Zerbie, this just goes to show you how a Right Winger's mind works: If it's a "church thing", by golly, it must be a good thing! Who in their right mind wouldn't want to do a good thing for their church? It never ceases to amaze me how easily and freely people will surrender their minds in the name of religion nor question religious "authority". I grew up in The South (Mobile,Alabama) and encountered this mentality A LOT. When a religious leader speaks, one is not supposed to question anything he says or does because he is the final authority on God. My Mom was raised by parents with that type mentality (Though my Mom does not think that way and has a mind of her own). She alway found that belief system frustrating. Thank God she didn't raise me Southern Baptist!

Take Care and Happy New Year!