anyone interested in writing a letter together and signing all of our names?
I have been watching these ex-gay ministers for awhile now and I think I want to write a letter similar to the letters I have written Stephen Bennett, but this time to DL Foster. Not only is he really anti-gay but also very racist towards anyone not African American. I have some ideas on the letter and its wording and I think it should have some of the same talking points as my petition to Stephen Bennett, although this time I would like to be more focused on the decption by omission factor. Would anyone be interested in writing this with me and signing there name. I feel it would be a stronger letter if more people signed it, but not as confrontational as my past dealings with Stephen Bennett.
Non-violence takes practice, and I don't feel I made all the right moves with Bennett, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do it better when I contact DL Foster. Even if you guys are not interested in signing your names, I am happy to do it under my name and offer to meet with Rev. Foster. I think I just want others to help me make sure I stick to the "Credo".....
these are the letters I have sent Stephen Bennett.
Need to see whatcha write first - you'll post a draft I assume?
But I'm a likely signer.
Going to follow the links to your other letters to Bennett, now. . .
I would sign and I could try and put ideas in for writing when I see what it looks like but that's not really my strength... I'll do what I can.
I'll sign too. Good luck.
Seven hours? This post better be inerrant.
God bless you Joe. I keep coming back here and I read your posts, here and on your site, and I'm reminded that the goal is to witness ONLY.
I’ve been watching your efforts and seen your passion, I can relate, I think many of us do. The injustice of the slander and the attitude of ‘bearing of false witness’ with impuinity is infuriating. Not just personally but the damage done to all eye-witness testimony, for those especially in need of it, by those who are convinced that without it results in literally burning alive for all eternity is more damnable than all possible sexual perversion absent malice conceivable combined.
What do you think about posting these letters online as ‘open letters’ in addition to sending them. Say so in the letter if necessary, put the link to the site even. I think part of the misdirected energy problem is about people like us think the Steve and Irenes of this world just don't know any better. Not that you’re unaware of this. ‘Saving’ them is necessary but it's more a question of demand.
Letters like this need to go out to every person who works at every station that hosts these programs, and every sponsor of them, local and national.
I’ve done several searches trying to find a list of the stations they broadcast on and couldn’t find anything specific, do you know, or does anyone have any ‘key word’ search suggestions?
If we can find the stations, we can find their web sites we can reach them too. Like prayer, group think psychic intention tends to have a synergistic effect. I guess I’m suggesting that if you have the same people in the same building thinking about the same thing, it’s going to have an effect,
no matter what Steve and Irene say. First, they'll have to think twice once in a while. Second, we'll convey the message in a way they weren't expecting. WMD's, weapons of mass disarmament. We're through the looking glass here people, we're going to make them laugh....:cool: Singing-closeted-bigot-o-grams? I'm thinking that might be taken as less than loving though. I'm also assuming 'singing-armoir-bigot-o-grams' would be an equally lost irony, but I digress..
The letters on your site are perfect. Articulate, succinct, open, honest, and emotional without alienating or offending, links and all. I'm sure I could find fault, but the fact that I have to mention it makes me not want to bother, but only in the good way.
I've googled and am now reading up on my new favorite "person" (adopt-a-bigot-day, Prayer-wise?), D L Foster. You give me the omissions Joe and I'll give you the deceptions. Whence that be done, they can be woven into a rich tapestry of talking points, or as those of us in the secular world call it, logic.
I’m a philosopher, a kicking-bunnies-ass-gay-philosopher. I eat human logic for breakfast lunch and dinner. “Too much CSPAN” is a curse word in my home.
Let me know if I can help. :)
The first letter to DL Foster should just go to him, privately and personally. You cannot win trust of people as a friend by publically doing anything. It is when DL devides not to respond or not to take action when shown the truth. Then I would do a second letter that is an open letter. I like that there is support for these efoorts. I ruely believe that these people do much damage. I hope to bring the truth to them relentlessly, but also with love and peace.
I have been sick and in bed the last two days with a nasty cold, so I haven't worked on much of anything. Haven't had the energy past my plop-plop fizz fizz, that is a relief but it also knoscks me out on my a**.
As soon as I am more up to it, I will start a draft of this letter. I will post it here for people to critque. Then we can from there.......
I thought you would all get a sample of Dl Foster and his take on me. This a comment he made on a blog after I had commented. As you can see he is a tough one and rather accusing. here is his comments............
DL Foster said...
I see you have been elected into Joe Brummer's hate club...or something like that. Our numbers are growing!
Believe that homosexuality is a sin and dont be afraid to say so.
That joe brummer character is reading from a script. He says the same things at my blog.
He uses those "sanballat" tactics. He constantly talks about good Christian morals and such, but he is really like a mule trying to speak japanese. He talks about middle ground and discussion. Uh, huh. And hitler wanted to talk to the Jews about middle ground too. When you wont agree with him or change your beliefs, he runs back to his little bloggie and writes another evil whodunit. Predictable...and now, boring.
I too took him to task about his harrassment of Stephen Bennett, but his delusional mind wont allow him to see his conduct as trifling and evil.
Christine, stay on the wall. You know what that means.
This okay with me, I don't really care what these people have to say about me, but it gives us all insight into what we deal with. It seems okay to them to spread lies and mistruths about gays and lesbians and call it truth, but if we try to stand up to them we are trifling and evil and apparently I am boring. I may be boring, but I refuse to close my eyes to the truth.
As an update: I have gone back to DL's post and relied with the soulforce credo about my adversary......
"Trifling and evil."
Think about that for a while.
Anybody know an example of evil that is "trifling?"
Beliving homosexuality is a sin is not bigotry. Wanting to believe so however is.
Joe, I think the Steve and Irenes and JL Fosters are the same as the Robertsons and Falwells, just younger and better at it.
I don’t deny the necessity of providing true witness, but I get the impression that you believe that they believe in logic(Do you believe in logic?). Again, not that it’s not possible to reach them, but my understanding is that they have essentially redefined Satan, the ego-better-than-you, etc., as God. Which is why the exclusiveness of a ‘the only correct religion,’ is so appealing. Couple that with the idea that the message that they are right cannot be wrong and personal inerrancy is forever guaranteed. After all, who would be clever enough to recognize what cannot be wrong except someone who cannot be wrong.
They’re hooked on stroking their ego’s, the gratification of doing so is an addiction. Like the Sammy Hagar lyric “it’s all just mental masturbation.” But unlike the 'sins' of alcoholism or even promiscuity, the sin of exclusion, especially in the name of love, is by nature (of exclusion), designed to harm others.
Christianity being a religion of equality, a supremacist must do a lot of pride eating even in their own circles. And like an anxiety attack, suppressed feelings of ‘better than,’ given a trigger, can unleash a torrent of uncontrolled feelings that have nothing to do with the truth at hand. Enter God approved bigotry, a license to hate if you will. They’re closet supremacists (bigots) masquerading as equalists (Christians). The difference is that they have plenty of encouragement from others, ALL of whom also have God’s approval.
For an egomaniac, this IS heaven. They have their cake and are eating it too. Not only are they the ONLY ones going to heaven, but the very reason they’re guaranteed getting there is because they are bringing ‘His’ message of abomination to us. To request respect (equality) is to request they forfeit their ticket to heaven. We not only have nothing better to offer them, but to request equality is to suggest inferiority. To be equal would mean they’ve been wrong, making them less than equal with us, And we’re less than bugs to begin with. They don’t just hate us, they LOVE to hate us. The attempt to ‘offer better’ can only be seen as an attempt to ‘detract from’ the ideal. It’s as absurd, if not more so, than we feel when they suggest we should accept the revulsion of heterosexuality. They’ve made the decision that even the ‘perceived harm’ they do is not worthy of investigation or self reflection. If they’ve gotten this far, they’ve run over a lot of people in the process.
The only way to reach someone like that is through someone they respect and/or love, and as we all know, even the strongest human bond there is, that between parent and child takes a back seat when it threatens their love of ‘being right.’ I’m not suggesting we should give up on them, but to reach them personally I think will require a better strategy.
We need to get basal logic on their assess, not about gay, about logic as in objective truth that their brains will be slave to remembering. Stop engaging them in a way that’s perceived as engaging them, that’s what they 'get off’ on, legitimate questions only, keep a record of their answers or lack of them. Therein lies our relentlessness.
In fact, first undo no harm. They suck on the idea that they can do no wrong like a pacifier. Personal inerrancy is rooted in their belief in Biblical inerrancy. Understanding the difference between Knowing and Believing-that-you-know is the first distinction that must be acknowledged. It's Nothing more than taking personal responsibility for the decisions one makes, and even this understanding has been usurped by the preachers. Falwell and Meyer often if not always qualify their statements with ‘I truly believe.’ A lie when it's presented as fact, especially in light of opposition, and especially without offering qualification beyond "Because the Bible says so."
I'm trying to compile a list of more 'acceptable' ideas to use, I'll give a post later, in fact that would be a really good Christian curse phrase, "I don't give a post!"
In a way, Emproph (spell?) makes the same point I made weeks ago in another thread: that we are engaging the ex-gays in a push-pull scrimmage, and what we need is to break that utterly. . .and it needs to happen via something or someONE who already has the respect and attention of Bennett, Foster, et al. The moment one of US approaches them, however reasoned our dialogue, it plays into their mental framework of the 'us' 'them' dichotomy, and we revolve around one another like two gravitational forces, with the result that nothing changes.
Ever watch tai chi masters go up against each other for Push Hands? What we're doing looks like that. And it hasn't got an ending. Though I'm willing to play a part in hopes of 'planting a seed' and all that.
The moe I have sat and tried to write anything on paper to DL, I feel defeated before my first words are out. I have read his commentary on homosexuality and find it beyond anything I have read before. As disturbed by it as I am, I don't know that anything i could ever say to him would mean anything. It may take me awhile to write something. I agree with Zerbie here. I think the truth can come to people like this, but it how to deliever that truth that seems to allude me.
There must be a fine line
I think there must be a very fine line between having patience to wait for an opportunity to gracefully, gently step in and "plant a seed," and on the other hand to become so passive we are doormats.
Let's not fall into the trap that we ourselves can be Do-ers and Do Something that will cause Foster to change his mind. It's HIS mind. He can do with it what he pleases, and it's a mistake to believe, however infinitely possible change may be, that WE can be what causes someone else to change.
We can only watch, wait, "plant seeds" if it seems appropriate, but ultimately we take care of ourselves, not the Fosters and Bennetts of the world. If these guys reverse stance - I would betcha, were I a gambling type - it would be ten times more likely to be because a sibling or child comes out gay/lesbian, or because they witness first-hand some horrific outcome of ex-gay therapies, like a suicice, in someone that they know, or because of a "downfall" such as being so overcome by same sex attractions they finally act on them, or because of a sudden and mysteriously powerful dream. . .something like that. I'd say our role in dealing with these guys is relatively small. Mainly, it's a wait and see game - wait and see if a situation presents itself where it becomes apparent that we are the ones to step in, rather than attempting to *create* it.
Clear as mud?
Just thought you might find this dialog with Dl Foster interesting. I don't think he would continue to talk with me if he didn't want to hear me.....
click this link to read th conversation:
We are all One.
Zerbie, you speak for me. :)
Joe, you’re looking to perform miracles, I support you.
Have you read ‘A Course in Miracles?’ It’s the consummation of the understanding that God is ONLY Love.
Emproph: Glad that I didn't misinterpret your intention, wondered if I had.
Joe: Will follow your link now.
Thanks for this thread.
I just signed the petitition. I sure hope this works. However if enough people sign the petition it might make a difference.
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