Is the Soulforce Forum passé?
 

I've been participating on this forum of three years (if memory serves!). And I've noticed that in the last year- and especially in the last 4 months- the traffic on the forum has dwindled. At least, that's been my impression. Makes me wonder if the place only survives on controversy. (Yes.....you might say I am starting some of my own....but humor me.)

And by traffic, I mean discussions. There seems to have been a dearth of substantial discussions of late. Why is that I wonder? Is it the times we live in now? Are people concerned with the the price of gas, the elections and the world financial melt-down? Are they rightly too busy with their lives to be online worrying and posting about gay people of faith? And if so, could that be a good thing?

In the past, during an ERide, there was all manner of posts here, on both sides of the issue. Not this time. Same reason as before? I wonder.

This begs the question: is the Soulforce Forum passé?

What do you think?

A natural lull of a sign of something else?

I hope this isn't seen as an attack. That is not my intention. Daniel, your question makes me wonder if people with opposing view points believe they are being jumped on for an attack when they are simply stating their argument. IMHO, sometimes the moderators are a bit quick on the trigger in pulling a post. I realize this needs to be a safe space but does that mean eliminating every distasteful post or sending it to the
foyer? Maybe there are other reasons for the lull. It could be that people are just too busy to post very much. Will it take some arrests on the E-ride to get things stirred up?

Nope...
 

Don't perceive your post as an attack. (But you know what? An attack might get things going! :lol: And of course, my mind goes on to ask something of a metaphysical question: does nonviolence action depend on violence for its existence? How very gnostic of me!)

I'm not sure that the matter is about moderators deleting posts. That's not what I see happening. After all, one has only to check the date on the activity of posts in the Foyer to see that no one's being sent there.

But oh! That could prove your point in a way!

I have actually deleted some of my own posts after posting them here because I felt they were too controversial. I am an atheist, and a lot of times (at least this year anyway) I hold back on many of my opinions about religion. I do that because a lot of people on this forum are Christians and are good, loving people.

Besides, of all the LGBT Rights groups, this one is on the front lines in the fight for LGBT equality. The Equality Rides and the American Family Outings have given me a deep respect for Soulforce. If it takes Christianity to open the doors to communication with our opponents, then I say go for it.

That's why I sometimes feel like I need to keep my viewpoint in the closet in this forum so I don't drive anybody away or hurt the cause of Soulforce. After all, this is a Christian based organization founded by a Christian leader.

So maybe I need to chill. I don't know. Society in general thinks we atheists need to keep our mouths shut because we upset way too many people. But, like it or not, religion is coming under greater scrutiny in America. Just as segregation of African Americans did in the 50s and homosexuality is undergoing today, a rapidly growing number of non-believers are challenging the old beliefs of their ancestors. Some of the best selling books of 2007 were "The God Delusion," "God is NOT Great," and "The End of Faith." Right now in theaters there's a documentary titled, "Religulous" which is asking some serious questions about religion. (the title is a combination of the words religion and ridiculous)

As the number of non-believers grows and Soulforce grows, chances are there will be more gay atheists coming to this forum in the future. I'm not sure how Soulforce or this forum will handle it but my hope is that we can continue to treat each other's views with respect.

If controversy is the reason the posts have been slack in the past few months, I sure hope mine didn't contributed to it. It's likely however, that my opinions don't carry that much weight among the truly faithful.

Rick

I haven't posted as often because my school network has blocked the site and I can't get on SF during the day. I check it often though when I get home. I don't feel it is passe', Daniel. And I don't think people need to keep their opinions and feelings "in the closet". If you can't be free here, you can't be free. This is a place where all opinions are welcome, within good taste, of course, and all opinions need to be shared. There is such a thing as tact, and writing in a way as to not offend, but sharing nonetheless is what we are all about. :)

This is aweome.
 

Thanks Daniel for getting the ball rolling.

Rick, I had no idea you were an Atheist; please do not keep your mouth shut.

I come to this site because I love reading the different points of view; I already know what I think about a topic and I enjoy hearing from Scotty, Zerbie, Daniel and the many others who are not Christian.

We can agree to agree or disagree and as long as we express our ideas without attacking each other this is still a safe place to me. :)

:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(

Well. This is shaping into an interesting convesation. Interesting because my original intent was to highlight the dearth of interaction with the regulars of this forum and those impacted (I sometimes have trouble using this word- it brings to mind the surface of the moon- no air- craters and lifeless) by the ERide. Interesting- because it seems to have motivated some self-questioning.

I've deleted a few of my own in past weeks because I posted some cheeky stuff and thought better of it. But I wasn't being controversial. Far from it. It was just me being pissy.

Now. I am very much AGAINST your not posting because you think your views are not orthodox, that is, Christian enough. They count very much here. My feeling is that we can only understand our own point of view when we see it highlighted by another point of view. Kinda like studying a foreign language. One learns one's own much better in the proccess.

BTW- This Buddha Boy loved The God Delusion!


What? I'm not a Christian?! :lol:;)

No. I guess I am not. At least not as others are. I took a different road after I came out and left the AoG church. Went 'East'. And believe me, the sights out there are very interesting. My own opinion is that we could all stand a little travel away from home. May be the only way to know what home actually is. Cue the Wizard of Oz!

There's no place like home!

Now. To come full circle (sort of), I want to reiterate that I don't think the issue here is the deleting of posts. So I think we can go easy on Steve. My sense is that - for one reason or another- people aren't showing up here as they have in the past!

Getting to the bottom of that. That's what I'm concerned about.

Hi.

Several points, in no particular order:

* Keltic works his *** off to walk a tightrope between allowing "questioners" to visit here with their lines of reasoning that prompt all of us to say "here we go again," to determine when disagreements are fair and need to be voiced, and when that mysteriously shifting line between disagreement and invective has been crossed.
Rather than blame moderators for being too trigger happy with post-removal or moving, we need to look at all of our collective responses to various types of disagreement with visitors and amongst one another.
It's my opinion that we are, as a group, a little quick to press for our decidedly liberationist view, (which makes sense, given that's what we're all here for,) but we sometimes do this even with someone who may not be ready to make a coming-out decision, or may not want to at all. We need to be careful of things like that.

Rick - I wish you wouldn't refrain from voicing your opinions. It really bothers me deeply that there is a cultural negativity around atheists and atheism. For heavens' sake (sorry:p), don't go into a closet!

I also see the forum has slowed down. Funny that should happen right now, as I hit a personal burnout.

I ran into complications to something I was working on in September, which thoroughly exhausted me and I have had it up to here with activism at the moment. On top of which, I am very busy working on my degree. I haven't had the interest or energy for participating much in serious discussions the past few months.

Seems odd that most of the others seem to be lessening their participation at the same time, too.

Well. Fora go in cycles - busy phases and slow phases. I imagine this one will pick up in time.

Infatuation and fading
 

"It was fascination...I know!"

The energy from within me crests and wans. At times you can't get me off of the forum and other times ......HO Hum!

But what's worse is the tactic of commercial media. Make everything that has negative inflammatory potential your topic and blow it out of proportion set to frenetic dramatic music and feed this poison to consumer masses.

'swhy I haven't had satellite tv for more than two years now.

But I find that in practicing meditation that not only is good thought hygiene important when I am alone, but it is also essential when communicating with others.

We have been taught so many unhealthy ways to think and talk and live that often we struggle to do otherwise!

I would like to see us create our own topics more often, rather than posts with reactive comments about other's activities.

I've been slowed down here for a few reasons. Work keeps me busy and I can't always get online when I'm traveling which I do quite often. Also, now that I'm back in school, that takes a lot of time and computer use (on-line classes). Plus my better half has done some complaining in the past about the amount of time I used to be on the computer so I've slowed down a bit.

We haven't had many 'fun' topics to discuss lately. It's been mainly politics, equality and the like. I do believe the SF forums are very important and they are in my life. Even if things are on an even keel, and there's not much controversy to keep lively conversations up, I find it a safe and comfortable place to just hang out and chat (or read).

There are a lot of new members, but I haven't had much time to spend welcoming them. To all of you, welcome, I'll get there sooner or later!

Moderating is a tough job
 

Keltic, you and Jamie do a great job moderating here; a much better job than I could. Maybe I was lookinng for a quick answer to Daniel's question. I know moderating is a tough job. You deserve a prize for keeping the peace. :award:

The first time I remember it happening was the (first) OJ Simpson trial. If something's in the media WAY too much, I get sick of it, and react, and avoid it at all costs. It probably sounds bad, but that's how I am with the election at this point, and for awhile now, most of the posts have been election related in some way or another.

When I first joined, I was pretty sure my views on nonviolence didn't totally mesh with the Soulforce mission, and that caused some weirdness in how (or if) I'd respond to some posts, but...I kind of got over it. If it's with a new person, I include the disclaimer about how I'm no one special connected to soulforce, but here's my take.

Things that might help activity: it IS helpful to have someone on the Rides who can frequent the forums for awhile. Perhaps in the future, some planning ahead can be done; maybe that's a position to be filled? In the meantime, I feel like we've already covered all the basics. Everyone's got their coming out story somewhere in the back-history, everyone's got their history with religion somewhere, I seem to remember talking about Outting, gay movies...it's like we've covered all the "standard fare" that we probably should, so we end up reacting to News.

My excuses
 

As with Zerbie's post, these items are not ranked in any particular order ... just the order in which I thought of them.

- I consider myself a liberal/progressive Christian. The Episcopal Church happens to be where I find myself on Sunday mornings, but my spirituality is wider than the denomination to which I pledge. I grew up a Roman Catholic, but found it too restrictive and moved to Anglicanism more than 35 years ago. That's my religious background.

- Because of that background, I know very little about evangelical/fundamentalist (I know they're different!) theology or culture. So many of the discussions are couched in this idiom, and I often read them with interest but don't comment on them. Conversely, I find that not as many people have been in interested in the threads I have started, so have shied away somewhat.

- I retired at the end of August ... more accurately I allowed my company to buy me out. Now, it might seem counterintuitive, but while I have more disposable time, I have less time to spend online. I was online all day at work, so checking in at SF was easy. I'm more involved with the non-digital, 3D world in retirement, and only check email and groups like SF once a day ... and some days not at all.

- I'm working on a book project. I don't know if it will come to fruition, it's in the research stages. It is very time-consuming. I'd love to bounce some of the topics off of some of you, but I don't know if that's appropriate here. The working title is Gospel Meditations from the Margins. I am discovering that the margins aren't only on the fringe but exist at the core of every society as well, just as what we consider marginal to our personality or psyche can often be found at the core of our beings after the kind of careful self-examination that happens in therapy or meditation. It is not specifically LGBT in focus except where the gay/bi/trans community has been marginalized by the majority culture. My goal is to show that all sorts of people are marginalized and that the good news is that God loves them and cares about them more than they can even imagine.

- Some people love a good argument. Most of those threads have moved to the foyer, but occasionally an old thread will be bumped and will get a flurry of activity. I usually don't jump into those because I feel like everything has been said that needs to be said.

- I would love that the reason for lowered activity is that more people are ho-hum about other people's sexual orientation and/or gender identity and expression. Of course, we care about those things, so there's no excuse for us not to post.

My 2-bits worth.

Do you think it could be the lack of controversy that is causing the forums to wane? Some of the people who come start some really blood boiling conversations, but is that what keeps us coming back for more. Is it the fight to show the willfully ingnorant who come he who we really are that gets us addicted?

My $.02cents worth
 

Soulforce will always be a viable force in the fight for LBT equality, especially on the campuses of Christian colleges. Some have come here because it's the only place where they can open up about their sexual/gender identity and their spirituality.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I welcome controversy. It can expose us to different viewpoints. It can serve to sharpen us as we minister to others in the future. I have learned in life that one may not agree with someone but there can be some common ground found. Rick, if you have something to say, go ahead and say it! You have every right to express your viewpoint.

Though we all come from many different experiences, we are all human beings who are to be respected.

Gennee

:love:

What was that about?
 

Hey Anthony! I read the post you deleted in this space earlier today. And I have to wonder why. You advocated - or so I surmised- a liberal sharing of ideas and opinions. And while I wasn't really clear about who you were quoting and why (aside from the Coming Out Day reference). You certainly got my attention. You seemed upset.

It's one thing to take a stand. It's another to edit one's self out completely. I'd rather you do the former and not the latter.

Antony H??

I've missed our Antony. If there is a reason for him not being around (other than being busy making the world a much better place,) I hope we find out why -- maybe there is something we can come to terms with in our interactions here.

I know there have been a couple/few times in the past where a regular member ran into something disagreeable to them about the way we have all dialogued, and departed. I'm not sure we have heard why, and in one case, I remember distinctly wondering and wondering what had happened - but if it has happened more than once or twice, then maybe we are contributing to a problem in the way we relate. Maybe we need to look at something about the way we conduct conversation here.

How can we improve the way we relate on this forum?

I agree about the OJ Simpson trial back in 1995. I was so sick of hearing about the trial day after day after day. I was also sick of hearing about the Vietnam war back in the sixties. Every night the 6:00 news would report about the war going on near Saigon or Hanoi or the bombings in Cambodia. There was news footage of helicopters picking up the injured and the dead night after night. And then there were the war protests, day after day thousands of people marching in the streets waving signs, students rioting on university campuses, riots in the streets. It seemed like it was never going to end.

And then there was Watergate in the seventies. I was so sick of hearing about Watergate on and on day after day. Nixon says, "I'm not a crook, I'm not a crook." Saturday Night Live parodies him for years.

But somehow, this time it's different. I'm not sick at all of the 2008 presidential campaigns. This has been by far the most exciting election in my memory especially with all the other big news going on about the stock market crash and the economy and Iraq war and same sex marriage and the possible election of the first African American president or first woman vice president. We're seeing lots of history being made here right in front of us and that's why I'm paying close attention. It's like a really good movie. And I can't wait to see what happens next. :eek:

Rick