estranged from family?

[KennethJ]

I'm looking for mutual support with others who are estranged from their families. I'm sure there must be others out there in the same situation I'm in... I'm not sure what form this will take (many of us probably don't want to share details in a public forum) so feel free to respond here or send me a private message. Maybe we could set up a private forum (here or elsewhere?) to allow us to share more deeply and support each other on the journey...
Ken

[Daniel]

Kenneth- Thanks for bringing this up. It's about time we had this conversation. And the idea of supporting each other is wonderful. My sense is that many come here because they are estranged from their families in one way or another.

I don't mind certain details.....(us performer types aren't shy!)

Though I see my family from time to time, I consider myself estranged from them. The reason for this, of course, is that they are- for the most part- conservative christians. They have a hard time with my being gay. Another factor is that I had very poor models as regards communication growing up. My parents weren't very demonstrative either. Of course, these factors have only added to the onus of being 'different' seeing that the family 'dynamic' is hardly conducive for change. It's skewed things as far as being able to address matters. And the times I have endeavored to do so- even in the most unconfrontational way- have gone nowhere. One is met with silence.

So- in brief- while we see each other in body, I have struggled my whole life with a feeling of disconnection. Of course, they have too.

It's a matter that's never far from my mind.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course, these factors have only added to the onus of being 'different' seeing that the family 'dynamic' is hardly conducive for change. It's skewed things as far as being able to address matters. And the times I have endeavored to do so- even in the most unconfrontational way- have gone nowhere. One is met with silence.

So- in brief- while we see each other in body, I have struggled my whole life with a feeling of disconnection. Of course, they have too.

It's a matter that's never far from my mind.

let's talk about the weather. let's talk about what happened at the school board meeting. let's talk about doctor's appointments, and what kind of gas mileage we're getting, and how much the electric bill was this month. But don't dare mention how thrilled I am with my relationship, how much I love my boyfriend, or even that we had a delicious dinner at the home of another gay couple.

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents. We "see" our parents regularly. Scott sees his mom and dad nearly every day. I see mine at least once a week. Shouldn't it be easy to announce that we're getting married? nope, we've been conditioned, much like B.F. Skinner showed with pigeons and Pavlov with his dogs, talk about anything gay, and the room goes silent. How can people in such close proximity be so far apart?

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by keltic63

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents.

We did tell our families- one sibling of mine sent a horrible letter stating that she didn't think men should be allowed to marry one another, my parents sent a card, and from the rest of my siblings: nada. Not a word. Hubby's elderly mother was a dear- but was not able to come because of her health.

Keltic- I hope your invitation is responded to with grace and warmheartedness. From both sides.

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by keltic63

let's talk about the weather. let's talk about what happened at the school board meeting. let's talk about doctor's appointments, and what kind of gas mileage we're getting, and how much the electric bill was this month. But don't dare mention how thrilled I am with my relationship, how much I love my boyfriend, or even that we had a delicious dinner at the home of another gay couple.

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents. We "see" our parents regularly. Scott sees his mom and dad nearly every day. I see mine at least once a week. Shouldn't it be easy to announce that we're getting married? nope, we've been conditioned, much like B.F. Skinner showed with pigeons and Pavlov with his dogs, talk about anything gay, and the room goes silent. How can people in such close proximity be so far apart?

You bring up some good points, Keltic. The first is people reconciling with the fact that you're gay. I have the same thing being transgender. Some folks can't accept the fact that there are other sexualities other than straight. What is a Committment Cermony? It's sounds very interesting.

Gennee

[KennethJ]

Thanks for responding guys. Although I take no pleasure in your pain, it is good to know that I'm not in this situation alone.

Right now how I am feeling is that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should ever be put in this situation. No one should have to choose between him/herself and their unaccepting family. I devote way too much energy to this conundrum which I cannot win. I could be developing myself in other ways, but instead I spend my days wondering if it is possible to have a relationship with my family and retain an ounce of love for myself. I have had absolutely no support from anyone in my family. I love them dearly, but can't bare the thought of continuing to put on the mask they think is me (the person they are able to tolerate and accept). It's just too difficult... and results in some really messed up states of mind. For a long time, this is what I did, and I developed really debilitating conditions, and at my most vulnerable time, my sisters actually told me that I caused it because of my SIN.

And yet, i see growth happening. For a long time I just rolled with it. I just split myself in half trying to maintain a relationship with them and also be true to myself. I ultimately crashed, had a breakdown and took 3 months off work. Now I'm at a point of being angry for the first time, which is good. I just have no idea what the next step is. And I'm feeling conflicting urges.. part of me wants to shut them out completely, and the other wants to call them and try to forge some kind of new peace. Maybe the path lies somewhere in the middle. I don't know. I do know that I'm tired of being a doormat and I reject any god that thinks I need to kill my true self in order to be whole or holy.

[NathanATX]

Dear one...
You MUST learn to set strong boundaries with your family or anyone who might take advantage of their relationship with you in order to cause you emotional/mental/spiritual harm.

My mother is extremely fundamentalist. She literally burned my younger brother's Harry Potter book she found... the one he had checked out from the library... because she is so afraid of witchcraft.

She has been incredibly emotionally violent towards me because of my sexuality. She has literally been emotionally and mentally abusive.

Thats what it is, ABUSE. Call the shit what it is. And don't let them get away with it.

My mom does not have permission to say anything about my sexuality UNLESS I agree to the conversation. She is not allowed to ask me to edit my conversations about my life/dates/friends/etc. on her behalf. If she wants to be "mom" for me, then I absolutely insist that she act with the decency and love any sane, loving mother should act with. If she's not willing to do so, I have NO PROBLEM cutting her out of my life. While that might seem drastic, and I have done that for periods of time, it's actually quite compassionate.

She has to realize that what she has done is unloving, unChristian, abusive and unkind. It is hideously ugly. Shine the light of truth on the words & behaviors. Make them public. Make others know what they are doing and saying.

By not setting clear boundaries, you are giving them permission to do/say whatever they feel like. You're saying, that in fact, you're not sure if you're really right about all this.

And we both know that's b.s.

You're worth more than the universe in God's eyes. Remind your parents and family of this when they forget it.

Peace,
Nate

[BenL]

KennethJ,

I'm a gay man married to a transman. Charley, my spouse, began transition from female to male two and a half years ago. When he/we told our son and daughter, who are grown and out of the house, what Charley was doing, both children reacted very angrily.

We haven't spoken to our daughter since. She demanded that we stay out of her life. Last month she and her husband moved to the UK without telling us. We only found out a week or two ago from her brother.

Our son has begun to come around. We talk to him regularly on the telephone. In June, we saw him for the second or third time since Charley started transition. He lives in DC, and we live in MA. We see progress on his part, so we're not pushing for more. He still refuses to discuss anything about his mom's transition with us.

My parents are both dead, and I was an only child. I'm no longer close to my cousins, who are scattered all over the country. Charley's siblings are supportive, if a bit clueless, but we don't see them all that often.

Another couple we know (he's trans, she's a bio woman) are expecting a baby in April through artificial insemination with donor sperm. They have already told us that we will be the kid's local grandpas, since both their families live so far away. I find my true family now is my chosen family.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Though I see my family from time to time, I consider myself estranged from them. The reason for this, of course, is that they are- for the most part- conservative christians. They have a hard time with my being gay.

. One is met with silence.

So- in brief- while we see each other in body, I have struggled my whole life with a feeling of disconnection. Of course, they have too.

It's a matter that's never far from my mind.

Originally Posted by keltic63

let's talk about the weather. let's talk about what happened at the school board meeting. let's talk about doctor's appointments, and what kind of gas mileage we're getting, and how much the electric bill was this month. But don't dare mention how thrilled I am with my relationship, how much I love my boyfriend, or even that we had a delicious dinner at the home of another gay couple.

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents. We "see" our parents regularly. Scott sees his mom and dad nearly every day. I see mine at least once a week. Shouldn't it be easy to announce that we're getting married? nope, we've been conditioned, much like B.F. Skinner showed with pigeons and Pavlov with his dogs, talk about anything gay, and the room goes silent. How can people in such close proximity be so far apart?

Originally Posted by Daniel

We did tell our families- one sibling of mine sent a horrible letter stating that she didn't think men should be allowed to marry one another, my parents sent a card, and from the rest of my siblings: nada. Not a word. Hubby's elderly mother was a dear- but was not able to come because of her health.

.

Originally Posted by KennethJ

T

Right now how I am feeling is that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should ever be put in this situation. No one should have to choose between him/herself and their unaccepting family. I devote way too much energy to this conundrum which I cannot win. I could be developing myself in other ways, but instead I spend my days wondering if it is possible to have a relationship with my family and retain an ounce of love for myself. I have had absolutely no support from anyone in my family. I love them dearly, but can't bare the thought of continuing to put on the mask they think is me (the person they are able to tolerate and accept). It's just too difficult... and results in some really messed up states of mind. For a long time, this is what I did, and I developed really debilitating conditions, and at my most vulnerable time, my sisters actually told me that I caused it because of my SIN.
I just split myself in half trying to maintain a relationship with them and also be true to myself. I ultimately crashed, had a breakdown and took 3 months off work.

I'm tired of being a doormat and I reject any god that thinks I need to kill my true self in order to be whole or holy.

Originally Posted by NathanATX

Dear one...
You MUST learn to set strong boundaries with your family or anyone who might take advantage of their relationship with you in order to cause you emotional/mental/spiritual harm.

My mother is extremely fundamentalist.

She has been incredibly emotionally violent towards me because of my sexuality. She has literally been emotionally and mentally abusive.

Thats what it is, ABUSE. Call the shit what it is. And don't let them get away with it.


Peace,
Nate

Originally Posted by BenL

KennethJ,

I'm a gay man married to a transman. Charley, my spouse, began transition from female to male two and a half years ago. When he/we told our son and daughter, who are grown and out of the house, what Charley was doing, both children reacted very angrily.

We haven't spoken to our daughter since. She demanded that we stay out of her life. Last month she and her husband moved to the UK without telling us. We only found out a week or two ago from her brother.

.

This thread should be required reading for every undergraduate in public university in the country.

I'm in that "no word" place, again, and forcing fingers to keyboard because this subject is too important to drop just because it's literally so heavy I can barely lift my hands to type.

I am just - devastated! - at the combined stories from so many of you, who have become my beloved friends in our months and years foruming. To them, I could add further stories of the friend who came out at 16 only to be told to get out of the house, and the friends whose parents still urge them to attend the ex-gay ministries - or my own cousin who was officially "dead" to the family for over 3 decades because he was gay so moved 2000 miles away and created a family of choice to replace us.

We attended a wedding yesterday. As the vows concluded and the just-married couple embraced and retreated hand-in-hand down the aisle, the crowd of combined friends and family rose in joyful standing ovation. Later, I thought of the contrast between the way their vows were received and the way Daniel's family responded to his wedding. I told hubby about the way Daniel's family refused to acknowledge his marriage. DH just looked grave and shook his head, saying sadly, 'that is the essence of the problem right there.' It makes me want to cry that something so important, so joyful, so fundamental to our lives could be ignored, passed-over, treated as shameful - - when it deserves to be celebrated.

Steve and Scott - I hope you will soon overcome your inhibitions about sharing your engagement with your family. I hope they will respond gracefully. The step you are taking is absolutely sacred, and deserves to be held the utmost regard. I hope those close to you respond with the dignity and respect you deserve.

What steps can we take to overcome these problems? I think everyone deserves time and second chances. But mental health is paramount, and if someone is constantly putting you down, you need to not hear those messages.

I love each of you very much, and will hold you and your families in my prayers.

Much love,
Zerbie

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

Dear one...
You MUST learn to set strong boundaries with your family or anyone who might take advantage of their relationship with you in order to cause you emotional/mental/spiritual harm.

My mother is extremely fundamentalist. She literally burned my younger brother's Harry Potter book she found... the one he had checked out from the library... because she is so afraid of witchcraft.

She has been incredibly emotionally violent towards me because of my sexuality. She has literally been emotionally and mentally abusive.

Thats what it is, ABUSE. Call the shit what it is. And don't let them get away with it.

My mom does not have permission to say anything about my sexuality UNLESS I agree to the conversation. She is not allowed to ask me to edit my conversations about my life/dates/friends/etc. on her behalf. If she wants to be "mom" for me, then I absolutely insist that she act with the decency and love any sane, loving mother should act with. If she's not willing to do so, I have NO PROBLEM cutting her out of my life. While that might seem drastic, and I have done that for periods of time, it's actually quite compassionate.

She has to realize that what she has done is unloving, unChristian, abusive and unkind. It is hideously ugly. Shine the light of truth on the words & behaviors. Make them public. Make others know what they are doing and saying.

By not setting clear boundaries, you are giving them permission to do/say whatever they feel like. You're saying, that in fact, you're not sure if you're really right about all this.

And we both know that's b.s.

You're worth more than the universe in God's eyes. Remind your parents and family of this when they forget it.

Peace,
Nate

This is one helluva good rant, Nate!

And you're absolutely right.

It never ceases to amaze me how many family members out there somehow feel that our homosexuality is something we do to them. Such is their self-centeredness and sense of entitlement that they cannot see anything beyond their own assumptions about, well, just about everything. And this can happen in violent and obvious ways or very subtle ways.

Harvey Fierstein's scene with Anne Bancroft towards the end of Torch Song Trilogy sums it up best for me. I can't find the quote online, but it goes something like: the only things I require from people are love and respect...and anyone who cannot give me those two things has no place in my life.

Amen.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Harvey Fierstein's scene with Anne Bancroft towards the end of Torch Song Trilogy sums it up best for me. I can't find the quote online, but it goes something like: the only things I require from people are love and respect...and anyone who cannot give me those two things has no place in my life.

Amen.

I couldn't find that one either, but I did find this quote from Arnold, Harvey's character:

You want to be a part of my life, I'm not editing out the parts you don't like.

[KennethJ]

I would like to bring the thread back to the original focus of conservation between people who have experienced estrangement from family. I'm really not looking for 'advice' from anyone, ESPECIALLY from people who haven't been there.

[Daniel]

Kenneth- I'm finding the matter of estrangement from biological family to be a life-long journey. And now that I am nearing the half-century mark, certain things have come into perspective.

For one thing, I've made a life for myself, one which hasn't depended on my family. At first, when I was in my 20's, I was royally pissed off that my parents didn't 'understand' me, or 'get' what I was doing. In time, I realized that they hardly understood themselves, much less me. And at that point, I started to see them as people- not my parents. I guess this helped me have a bit of compassion for them- and for myself. I started to pull on them less. Let them off the hook- so to speak.

My parents are in their late 70's now. And I cut them a hell of a lot of slack: their concerns have changed radically in the last few years.

When I was in my mid 30's, I somehow got the idea that I needed to start telling them what I wanted to hear from them: "I love you." Words not in usage at the time. I thought: "Hell! Why am I waiting for them to tell me this? I'm the one who knows what I want.....so I better go first". So I did. Scared the shit out of me. But I did it: I started telling them that I loved them when we talked on the phone. The first three or four times there was silence on the other end. And then the words were croaked back to me in a far away voice. And I thought....."Well....that's a start".

Have we progressed a great deal beyond this? Not really. A little here and there over the years, small changes over a long period of time. While I once dreamed of a grand verbal acceptance, I now know it may never be possible because mine is not a family that 'talks'. At least not in the way that I've come to regard communication- a skill I've had to learn on my own. And their faith- combined with their fears- keep them from from able to engage in conversation about these matters easily. That said, I'm open to being suprised. Does it matter to me? Yes. Do I fuss about it? From time to time. Does it rule my life like it once did? No.

I feel my sometime need for acceptance is a hunger which I have to feed by giving what I want to have. Yes....it's all backwards as far as the world is concerned, which demands that we have what we deserve- now! But I take it as one of the curious things about love. It turns things inside out.

No matter what, I will go to my grave knowing something of the meaning of three little words.

[BrianB]

Originally Posted by KennethJ

I would like to bring the thread back to the original focus of conservation between people who have experienced estrangement from family. I'm really not looking for 'advice' from anyone, ESPECIALLY from people who haven't been there.

It was the fear of estrangement that kept me from telling my parents for so long that I'm bisexual. I truly believed that they would cease talking with me if I came out of the closet. After much thought and prayer I wrote them each a letter to explain that I was involved with gay pride and that several of my friends at school were gay. Then I told them in the letter that I'm bisexual.

I fully expected that they would tell me that I was dead to them. The reality was that my mom said she loved me even though she believed homosexuality is sin. She did not want to hear about anything connected to gay activities. That limited our conversation quite a bit. My dad said he didn't have a problem with it; at the same time he didn't want to discuss it. That was my private life.

Mom asked me not to tell anyone else in the family because she knew that some family members would cease contact if they knew. So far, the issue has not come up with other family members. They live in other states so it's not as important that they know. If they ask me point blank, I will tell them.

[gman620]

I am not estranged from my immediate family, but I am estranged from several members of my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins), although that has nothing to do with my being gay, and frankly I don't miss them that much at all. Sometimes we're actually better off not being around certain people.

I've been cut off from several friends because of my sexuality, but never anyone in my immediate family. Luckily they've stood by me thick and thin.

If you're estranged from your immediate family, that's undoubtedly the hardest to deal with. I can only advise you to try to cultivate relationships with other relatives or close friends. You can't force other people to accept you, but remember that over time people can change their minds.

Continue to have a strong and solid prayer/spiritual life. Consider getting involved in a gay-friendly church and other social activities.

Sorry I can't offer more. Good luck!

[RedneckDyke]

Hi everybody.

I don't know what my relationship with my family is. Most of them don't talk about it at all. My parents and my partner's dad did go to the union ceremony. Her dad helped out, driving a truck of chairs and stuff. My folks were a bit more passive-agressive about it. They put off getting dressed untill 15 miuntes into it. So we were late to our own wedding.

I think my mom secretly likes me being gay. she likes being a martyr at times. She told her pastor what a trial it is having a gay daughter who wants to get married, and a straight son who doesn't. ( brother is not legally married but has been with the same wonderful woman for 6 years and has 2 kids with her.)

I have been with my partner for 9 years but my folks seem to think it's a phase I'll grow out of. Everytime I talk to them on the phone they tell me "We just want you to be happy. "
Drives me nuts.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

Hi everybody.

I don't know what my relationship with my family is. Most of them don't talk about it at all. My parents and my partner's dad did go to the union ceremony. Her dad helped out, driving a truck of chairs and stuff. My folks were a bit more passive-agressive about it. They put off getting dressed untill 15 miuntes into it. So we were late to our own wedding.

I think my mom secretly likes me being gay. she likes being a martyr at times. She told her pastor what a trial it is having a gay daughter who wants to get married, and a straight son who doesn't. ( brother is not legally married but has been with the same wonderful woman for 6 years and has 2 kids with her.)

I have been with my partner for 9 years but my folks seem to think it's a phase I'll grow out of. Everytime I talk to them on the phone they tell me "We just want you to be happy. "
Drives me nuts.

Hey Red,
My parents couldn't give a rat's ass about my happiness. They said, "Being a Christian may not always make you happy. It isn't about your happiness, it is about obedience to the law." I am glad your parents at least participated in your ceremony. Mine would heartily protest and probably have Fred Phelps out in front with his signs.
9 years together! Wow! Congratulations! Keep showing them your love is real! I hope you never outgrow it.

[godschild]

Everyone in my family believes im gonna get killed for being gay and then say im going to hell. My girlfriend's mother thinks im the devil himself because her daughter has chosen to be with me rather than go to counseling to "change her ways." Its difficult because I have very little support but I pray to God to bring me around positive people that love God. To me..I have never had a real since of family until I have been with my partner. No one will ever come between that.

[u-dog]

welcome Michelle. We are those people who love God and GLBT people! Make yourself at home. join in the conversation. I am sorry to hear that your parents and those of your GF are not supportive. Cling to each other and make a new family!!

[andrewlittle]

Michelle, I love your screenname. The choice of "Godschild" shows strength and tenacity in claiming your likeness from God, and the eternal love God has for you, even in the face of familial rejection.

It's amazing that those people who believe that the nuclear, heterosexually coupled family is the achetypal creation of God for how all humanity is to live fail to see the unGodly damage that is done by it. Where is the reflection of God's love to be found in the way they ostracize their children - God's beloved? It is such a travesty - I can just imagine God weeping.