God Proof

[awediot]

If only God would show undeniable evidence we were on the right track, or all out PROVE His existance. So many pieces would fall into place, so much pain would be alleviated. Wars would stop, the environment would gain respect, a harmonic convergence of Love and brotherhood could commence... Or just prove yourself to me oh Lord, so that I may better serve you.

Why does God withhold PROOF? Are we so certain He does? Is evidence enough, what form of proof would suffice and what would it do to us if that wish were granted?

In a different thread I made the mad claim God had PROVEN Himself to me (nature vs. nurture), and said I have had no need for faith since. I can describe it no other way and have no delusion I can translate that experience into a satifactory
proof for anyone else. At the time, I was angrily demanding evidence or signs, (not a tactic I reccomend) but not proof, and I got way more than I bargained for. It was as if the tree was pulled from under me and I "chose" to hit the ground.

The request itself is unreasonable. It is a desire to reform freewill. Say an isolated tribesman had heard stories of a box that can take you faster than the cheetah. He is free to believe whatever, and weigh the frequency of the story, who he heard it from, if that wheel thingy may play a part etc. But put him in a car and further doubt is renderred impossible. Unless he masters denial and can write it off as a dream or vision. Then no proof would suffice. Or he only didn't quite catch the cheetah, or only saw a parked car, in the distance. Then proof for one isn't so for another.

Personal proof defines subjectivity and the term is not often used by even the most devout. We must ask if we not only want proof, but want it in this or that way. Perhaps you have been given proof. Perhaps God thinks you have been given evidence enough. Or maybe you'll get it tomarrow and regret it.

Trumpets and choirs and atmospheric scrolling back to reveal Jupiter sized horsemen to accompany God's return, is God proving Himself to the world at large, all at once. I believe it will happen, in His own time, but we are finished with this stage at that point. It seems God believes we have been given ample evidence to make an educated guess. Any more proof and we are undone. The moment it comes, may also be the moment it is too late to decide.

[Emproph]

We have to find an easy way to show that proof is all around us.

[SolInvictus]

I believe evidence / proof of God is all around us. Looking at the complexity of the DNA double helix and the complex process of evolution - it is difficult not to believe in a deity or Source of Life. Furthermore, the experience of love, true love, is such a transcendent emotion that it is like absolute bliss or nirvana. The Bible states God is Love, and if this is the case - then God is all around and inside us.

[awediot]

I agree with both of you... I was arguing a point with a devout atheist who insisted on proof; that if God loved as He says, He would reveal Hiimself and stop all the religious warring and painful confusion. (a difficult point to counter)

The power of interpretation, selective understanding and certainty within ourselves never ceases to amaze me (or frighten me a little when its not about everyone ELSE) The proof we breath in nourishing belief is the same others do, producing the exact opposite... I see increasingly that it is not lack of evidence or ignorance that is the enemy, it is denial . Atheist are the most dogmatically faithful Souls on the planet. Belief in the vast Nothing is more a comfort than a big, scarey, smart deity that has taken an interest in you...They have the most at risk.

I aknowledged Proof that I could share, doesn't exist, and a ton of bricks worth of evidence can go unnoticed. I came to an understanding and told him that his proof resides where he refuses to look, and we went on to talk about if it was a real apple..

[maklelan]

Proof is something that God will never give. Faith is the price required us and the strife and hard times we experience are for our benefit. Without them we could not become like Him. A scripture says this: "Thou knowest the greatness of God, and He will consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain." With no pain we would know no joy. WIthout hate we would know no love. All would be one compound devoid of opportunity for growth. To make a muscle grow you must tear it down. To purify silver you must keep it in the fire. Too little heat and it won't change. Too much and it breaks down.

[awediot]

I was given an impossible, internal proof that I don't expect you to believe, and my faith in God is a no longer needed step backward (but that is me, call me delusional)... I think Him proving Himself to the world is a big part of judgement day (if you believe in such a thing), when the need for the negative has served its purpose and is removed and the world is remade.

I've always wondered what The Mormon Church believes about this. Not looking for an argument, just curious...