The victimization of Hamas

[Here2Learn22]

I am so incredibly tired of hearing people defend Hamas and condemn Israel. You cannot victimize a group of people who use random intances of violence and death to get what they want.

I feel for the civilians being lost in the conflict in Gaza. I'm not proud of Israel's actions, but I understand their necessity. Hamas are hiding behind villages and settlements of innocent people that are being killed when Israel attempts to attack Hamas. They are using human sheilds and these people are called victims?

Sorry, I'm not sure if this applys to the forums. I just needed to vent.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by Here2Learn22

I am so incredibly tired of hearing people defend Hamas and condemn Israel. You cannot victimize a group of people who use random intances of violence and death to get what they want.
I feel for the civilians being lost in the conflict in Gaza. I'm not proud of Israel's actions, but I understand their necessity. Hamas are hiding behind villages and settlements of innocent people that are being killed when Israel attempts to attack Hamas. They are using human sheilds and these people are called victims?

Sorry, I'm not sure if this applys to the forums. I just needed to vent.

I agree, basically, with the statement I have highlighted. Using that logic, however, leads one to condemn the authorities of both Israel and Hamas - not the country and not the general population.

Israel severely limits supplies that are essential to human survival - killing many "non-violently". Hamas conducts rocket attacks that kill small numbers of people, but that create a constant tension and fear. Israel responds by bombing and killing a hundred or so Palestinians and by shutting down the supply pipeline even further. Hamas responds by tripling the rocket attacks, which is entirely predictable, and kills another Israeli. Israel responds and the death toll reaches 230. Tit for tat, except for each person Hamas is responsible for killing, Israel kills about a 100 violently and uncounted numbers through lack of medical supplies, power and food. The Palestinian death toll is now over 500.

Not only is the response disproportionate, but the count of militant vs. civilian deaths is suspect. See the story below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7811386.stm

[dsdrane]

...but I am 100% anti-Hamas.

Israel is no doubt inflicting tremendous pain on the people of Gaza right now. It's incredibly frustrating and gut-wrenching to watch.

I imagine it's no picnic for those doing the inflicting, either.

But the fault -- at least in the short term -- lies squarely with Hamas.

Hamas doesn't acknowledge Israel's right to exist...in fact, they go a step further by being dedicated to Israel's destruction. These are the people with whom Israel is supposed to "negotiate".

The fact that Gaza was then blockaded should surprise no one. Was Israel supposed to sit idly by while Hamas imported any numbers of weapons?

I find it curious that Hamas, despite the blockade, was still able to obtain these rockets that they keep flinging over the border, but somehow couldn't figure out how to smuggle in baby formula or medicine. And I particularly like how they use schools, mosques, and hospitals as shields for their weapons and fighters.

Egypt, Jordan, and even the Fatah government in the West Bank have figured out that Israel isn't going away. Hamas -- and the people of Gaza who democratically elected them -- need to grow up and do likewise.

Hamas has the power to stop this crisis right now.

Perhaps they should bone up on their Gandhi....

[dsdrane]

This is an article I read yesterday at The Huffington Post. I think it sums up the incredible frustration so many of us find with the current situation.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

I agree, basically, with the statement I have highlighted. Using that logic, however, leads one to condemn the authorities of both Israel and Hamas - not the country and not the general population.

Israel severely limits supplies that are essential to human survival - killing many "non-violently". Hamas conducts rocket attacks that kill small numbers of people, but that create a constant tension and fear. Israel responds by bombing and killing a hundred or so Palestinians and by shutting down the supply pipeline even further. Hamas responds by tripling the rocket attacks, which is entirely predictable, and kills another Israeli. Israel responds and the death toll reaches 230. Tit for tat, except for each person Hamas is responsible for killing, Israel kills about a 100 violently and uncounted numbers through lack of medical supplies, power and food. The Palestinian death toll is now over 500.

Not only is the response disproportionate, but the count of militant vs. civilian deaths is suspect. See the story below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7811386.stm

You are right. I acknowledge Israel's faulty practices. I was just angry yesterday. It makes me happy when I get so many positive responses from everyone. Thank you.

[NathanATX]

Violence is violence is violence.

A few weeks ago, I received a photo of a pile of dead Palestenian children that were killed during an Israeli bombing.

Friends, consider that the commitment we have to use the principles of non-violence in the work of LGBT equality is preparing us to be able to speak powerfully and effectively about other justice issues.

What kind of difference would a non violent approach make for Palestenians? For Israelis?

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

A few weeks ago, I received a photo of a pile of dead Palestenian children that were killed during an Israeli bombing.

We're seeing these images every day now, and indeed they are extremely upsetting. And fury at the Israelis, while understandable, must be countered with fury at Hamas for putting these children in harm's way.

Originally Posted by NathanATX

What kind of difference would a non violent approach make for Palestenians? For Israelis?

Someone once remarked about Yassir Arafat that he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. In my own lifetime I've seen public sentiment grow sympathetic to the Palestinian cause only to be squandered by yet another hijacking, yet another failed peace initiative, etc.

"Violence is violence", yes, but the reality is this: the State of Israel is not going away, and any strikes against it will be met with the kind of disproportionate response that comes from two millennia of survival tactics. Israel is fully aware that this current conflict, now over 60 years old, cannot be won militarily, but that will not stop them from firing back when fired upon.

Go ahead and try to explain to these grandchildren of the Nazi's Final Solution about non-violence. The holocaust, sadly, is as much of a defining moment to Israelis as our revolution is to us. The safety of Israel -- the state and the "tribe" -- is paramount; they will never back down...basically because they cannot.

Fatah seems to understand this at long last, but Hamas still refuses. Until they understand they cannot win anything through violence, Israel will continue to answer violence with more violence.

Hamas, like I said earlier, has the power to stop this now. If they stop firing into Israel, the Israelis will no longer have any excuse to respond.

Then they can talk.

[pnggrad79]

I know there are atrocities on both sides of this conflict. However, Israel must do what it can to curb the illegal bombings that Hamas and others like them perpetrate on them. Hamas and the like have a culture of death. They use women and children as human shields and then offer themselves up as martyrs to a cause that is spawned by hatred. Then the stupid media shows poor, helpless victims of Israel's retaliation, when it wasn't Israel that started it. They never show the Israeli victims of Hamas and Hezbollah and the PLO and Islamic Jihad...

It is a vicious cycle and no end in sight. One of my kids in class said today, "Why can't they all just coexist?" I said," I wonder that myself." If Israel lets the West Bank and Gaza be Palestinian then all these murderous idiots will build bombs and Iraq and Iran will pay these dumbass families $25,000 to their young sons and daughters to strap bombs to themselves and go blow themselves up along with some Jews. Until BOTH sides decide to stop this insanity, then it will just continue. Hamas will throw bombs, and send in the suicide bombers, and Israel will retaliate. It is a culture of death.