Homosexulity and Change: My Promiscuity

[Legendary]

Homosexuality and Change: My Promiscuity

Currently I am doing research for a presentation that is based on the term 'ex-gay'. I am passionate about any subject that has to do with human sexuality and gender deviancy but this one particular is a putting on a bit of an emotional roller coaster (which I expected since my researching methods are un-biased). The more I read the more questions I have and the more I am left feeling lost and confused. For instance, in the book 'Healing Homosexuality: Case Stories of Reparative Therapy" by Joseph Nicolosi 8 men talk about their journey's of "coming out" of their homosexuality, due to the fact that the homosexual feeling they have are unwanted, an damaging to their lives according to them. I haven't gotten very far yet but from what I have reviewed, I found it very interesting the determination these men put into changing and seeking happiness. One guy even challenged those who say homosexuality cannot change by saying " But who are they to say I shouldn't change." According to the therapist who is also the author of this book says homosexual behavior is an attempt to undo the alienation they feel from their masculinity (in the case of homosexual men). At the end of the stories of the men who say they've changed, they speak of being happy and feeling free. This is where part of my confusion lies leaving me asking questions such as:

How come some men are happy living an 'ex-gay' life when others are not (former ex-gay)?

Why is 'masculinity' almost always confined to 'maleness' when attempting to help a man be free of his homosexual desires?

Does this mean that some people are not meant to be gay? Some therapist would agree that reparative therapy are only for those who want to seek assistance to rid of their unwanted same-sex desires.

Is the ex-gay movement an attempt to confine both men and women to the gender binary without the recognizance or inclusion of those who do not fit?

In order to help a patient change a therapist must know the 'causes of the homosexuality'. What 'caused' you to become homosexual'? I admit I have had a very sexual childhood. I'm now even just getting over my pornographic addiction (I'm 18..since middle school). I used to be a victim of the promiscuity that the stereotypes of homosexual or same sex loving individuals are labeled under by the heterosexual society. Even though I don't think much about my father, I was raised only by by mother but was consistently surrounded by male role models through out my whole life. I can't remember exactly when I began to be attracted to guys but I know it was before I had 'sex' with 2 guys that were 4 and 3 years older then me from the ages of 8-10 (or maybe younger I cant remember). And I have even had experiences with my siblings (girls and guys) in my younger and teen years. Today it seems my mind has put all this history locked away, to the point where all seems ok. But every now and then i think about it and I still don't believe what my life used to be. It frightens me because sometimes I wonder what if the reason I like guys is because of my past. But then I think of how I felt this way even before all this happened. Maybe all the sex at a young age is what caused me to become sexually hyperactive. I don't know. I also remember the many sexual experiences i had throughout high school with guys, as an attempt to find the right one for me. Occasionally today I feel the urges I used to feel as a teen, but it just seems as if everything has slowed way down, and I'm the things that used to bother me don't effect me as much. I think I just grew tired of it. All I know now is that I am only left with so many questions but with very few answers. I'm not hear to be judged just helped. Now that I have come to the realization that I question everything. I feel myself walking away from God. Being afraid or avoiding going to church when I used to be excited. Even gay-friendly churches. My spiritual journey has come to a n abrupt halt.


Legendary

[Gennee]

Legendary, I believe that many of the issues in the study are the same ones you're currently dealing with. It's how you feel about yourself that you will discover who you are.

Constant activity wil only delay the inevitable point of having to face yourself. Ex-gay "therapy" has done much harm to gays and lesbians. One of the best things that happened to me was embracing my transgender identity. I pray that you will do the same.

Gennee

[Daniel]

I'm pretty far ahead of you as far as years go. I am 51. Does this give me some perspective? Yes. It does. Does it make me 'right'? Not by a long shot. Please take what I write as the musings of a man who has simply been down the path of life only a bit longer than you.

Guilt. That's what I read in your post. Guilt. Guilt. Guilt.

Who put that thought in your head?

What is all the guilt about? What you did with whom as a kid?

How about seeing the desire for union with others (the perfect guy) as part and parcel as the journey towards unity with one's Self? Sure. There may be dysfunctional aspects to how you've gone about it, but that doesn't mean that the primary desire to be with those of your own sex is somehow flawed, cheapened, and therefore damned.

My own view is that the Right Wing's promotion of ex-gay therapy is - as you intuit- pretty much about keeping the sexes in their assigned gender roles. And I think this is a very misguided view. There are plenty of straight boys you are effeminate and gay boys who are ultra-masculine.

Ex-gay stuff is about CONTROL. If they can control WHO you LOVE, then they are able to control YOU.

Self-discipline? That is something altogether.

So you are finding that acting on your sexual impulses all the time doesn't lead you to a happy and healthy place? Good for you. Sounds like you are becoming a self-aware man.

That makes you husband material buddy.

[Legendary]

It it is quite a journey that I am on but I am slowly but surely making it. I just really hope to reconnect with God like I want to. A friend told me about a counselor at my school, so I'll be seeing him for the first time next week. Also from my understanding of ex-gays, some people are homosexual(I really don't like the western ideas of categorization but will use it to make it easier to explain my point) for different reasons. Thus the reperative therapy doesnt work for everyone. Everyone comes from all walks of life.

Ex1: a man who is struggling with his same sex desires was rapped as a young boy, and grew up wanting that feeling again, but eventually was terribly unhappy. So he went through reperative therapy and was much better off, even though he still had still attracted to the same sex occasionally he found his true happiness with a woman. (ex-gay)

Ex2: a man who had same-sex attractions all his life has made the choice to go through reperative therapy due to the fact that his faith(and society) is unaccepting of him. He eventually sees that repearative therapy is doing more harm than good for him and learned to be at peace with God and his sexuality. It wasn't for him. (ex-ex-gay)

Both of these men were categorized as homosexual based on what bodies they are sexually attracted too. However on was not a "true" same-sex loving individual. Maybe there should be different names for people like this. This is confusing.

PS: I know that some ex-gay organizations do in fact use "controlling" methods. Some admit that reperative therapy may not work for everyone (anyone).

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Both of these men were categorized as homosexual based on what bodies they are sexually attracted too. However on was not a "true" same-sex loving individual. Maybe there should be different names for people like this. This is confusing.

PS: I know that some ex-gay organizations do in fact use "controlling" methods. Some admit that reperative therapy may not work for everyone (anyone).

Anybody can have sex with anyone. That doesn't make one gay. Rape doesn't make one gay any more than it makes one a Martian. Does it mess with one's head? You better believe it.

Both examples you give could have been helped by modern psychotherapy. The truth is this: God doesn't 'change' our sexuality. The Exodus folks would like to think that one can change one's sexual orientation as if it is a 'mind over matter' matter , but this is simply not true.

Take the 'faith' part out of their stuff and you see it for what it is.

It's not who you have sex with that matters, but rather, who you fall in love with.

Being gay is about LOVE.

[Legendary]

Sexual orientation is a complex things. In honestly everyone has their own definition of what a homosexual is. Some people categorized people as homosexuals based on their sexual attractiveness, sexual behavior or self-identification. If a heterosexual was to be attracted to only a specific member of the same-sex as well as commit sexual acts with them, some would say they are either homosexual or bisexual based on who their attracted to and their sexual behavior.

Before the America was discovered the Native Americans practiced what we would call homosexual behavior, when in fact they saw it as something complete different and not of any category. It was the Europeans who came here that misinterpreted the practices of the Native Americans and categorized them and their ways of life. Then they tried to "fix" them because they felt the "savages" were uncivilized and needed to be taught the proper gender roles of a man and female. Even today these Western categories that we have do not exist in some other cultures. Therefore does sexual orientation truly exist? What's the point of branding people when you could be wrong and falsely accuse some of being a homosexual based on what you perceive a homosexual to be.

Also sexual orientation is fluid and can change on its own. I believe the individuals who have un-wanted sexual attractions go through the therapy and are happy was because they originally was not identified as homosexual. You can't force someone to love themselves as they are if who they are is not truly them. This means that Ex1 who has tried to love himself but was still unhappy with his unwanted desires found happiness living as a heterosexual because that it possibly who he initially was until he was psychologically damaged. While Ex2 began as a homosexual and was psychologically damaged while during the therapy because he was trying to change who he was which is of course unnatural. Since not one person is the same and is unique designed, reperative therapy has different effect for everyone.And not all therapies are faith oriented, even though some do sneak their beliefs in to try to convert a non-religious person. Some therapist and organizations increase the forcefulness for a person to change if they are like example too, which is wrong. However ex-gay organization successors are sometimes like Ex1 but not always (again everyone is different) so they use that against the gay rights movement to show that homosexuality can change. When in fact not everyone is the same. And this all goes back to my question. Does sexual orientation truly exist. Wy can't people just say I'm not homosexual, bisexual,transsexual,asexual,pansexual or whatever I'm just me.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

[CENTER]
How come some men are happy living an 'ex-gay' life when others are not (former ex-gay)?

Happy? Most of these men are thinking about getting it on with guys and are still attracted to men. Even the ex-gay people say this now. Their 'happiness', if you can call if that, is about not acting gay- having gay sex.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Why is 'masculinity' almost always confined to 'maleness' when attempting to help a man be free of his homosexual desires?

Because ex-gay folks are fixated on gender roles. In their world, real men don't do certain things. Their world is about conformity, not freedom to be who you are.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Does this mean that some people are not meant to be gay? Some therapist would agree that reparative therapy are only for those who want to seek assistance to rid of their unwanted same-sex desires.

No. It's doesn't mean that people are not meant to be gay. The ex-gay world is one where those who have same-sex desires are seen as defective straight persons. Reparative therapy is for people who are coerced into it by religious conservatives.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Is the ex-gay movement an attempt to confine both men and women to the gender binary without the recognizance or inclusion of those who do not fit?

Now you are on to something. Yes. I would agree. The ex-gay movement is about CONTROL and making people adhere to strict notions regarding male & female gender roles.

Originally Posted by Legendary

In order to help a patient change a therapist must know the 'causes of the homosexuality'. What 'caused' you to become homosexual'? I admit I have had a very sexual childhood. I'm now even just getting over my pornographic addiction (I'm 18..since middle school). I used to be a victim of the promiscuity that the stereotypes of homosexual or same sex loving individuals are labeled under by the heterosexual society. Even though I don't think much about my father, I was raised only by by mother but was consistently surrounded by male role models through out my whole life. I can't remember exactly when I began to be attracted to guys but I know it was before I had 'sex' with 2 guys that were 4 and 3 years older then me from the ages of 8-10 (or maybe younger I cant remember). And I have even had experiences with my siblings (girls and guys) in my younger and teen years. Today it seems my mind has put all this history locked away, to the point where all seems ok. But every now and then i think about it and I still don't believe what my life used to be. It frightens me because sometimes I wonder what if the reason I like guys is because of my past. But then I think of how I felt this way even before all this happened. Maybe all the sex at a young age is what caused me to become sexually hyperactive. I don't know. I also remember the many sexual experiences i had throughout high school with guys, as an attempt to find the right one for me. Occasionally today I feel the urges I used to feel as a teen, but it just seems as if everything has slowed way down, and I'm the things that used to bother me don't effect me as much. I think I just grew tired of it. All I know now is that I am only left with so many questions but with very few answers. I'm not hear to be judged just helped. Now that I have come to the realization that I question everything. I feel myself walking away from God. Being afraid or avoiding going to church when I used to be excited. Even gay-friendly churches. My spiritual journey has come to a n abrupt halt.

No one caused me to be gay. And I hardly think that your interest in sex as a kid is deserving of a scarlet letter. I was noticing and fooling around with boys at a young age too. This isn't a matter of being straight or gay btw. Kids are interested in sex when the hormones start doing their thing. And boys- in particular- can be involved in same-sex activity, that is, masturbating together etc.

You might go read Kinsey. It's very informative re same-sex activity.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Happy? Most of these men are thinking about getting it on with guys and are still attracted to men. Even the ex-gay people say this now. Their 'happiness', if you can call if that, is about not acting gay- having gay sex.



Because ex-gay folks are fixated on gender roles. In their world, real men don't do certain things. Their world is about conformity, not freedom to be who you are.



No. It's doesn't mean that people are not meant to be gay. The ex-gay world is one where those who have same-sex desires are seen as defective straight persons. Reparative therapy is for people who are coerced into it by religious conservatives.



Now you are on to something. Yes. I would agree. The ex-gay movement is about CONTROL and making people adhere to strict notions regarding male & female gender roles.



No one caused me to be gay. And I hardly think that your interest in sex as a kid is deserving of a scarlet letter. I was noticing and fooling around with boys at a young age too. This isn't a matter or being straight or gay btw. Kids are interesting in sex when the hormones start doing their thing. And boys- in particular- can be involved in same-sex activity, that is, masturbating together etc.

You might go read Kinsey. It's very informative re same-sex activity.

Yes Kinsey(as well a others) is primarily were I observed my research from. and that is the point I was giving you about the fluidity of sexuality. As for me point were I said some people are not meant to be gay, I was trying to explain even through gruesome experiences such as rape by the same-sex and person could still turn out to be straight. Therefor the rape only confused them for a certain time but they soon realized that those feelings were not coinciding with their own sexual orientation. Some rape victims realize this on their own while others seek therapy. But in no way at all does it make them homosexual. This research is intense, both sides have strong opinions.