Sex before marriage, Does this also apply for same-sex couples?

[Legendary]

I understand that scripture forbids this as well as seeing each other naked before marriage. I was just pondering whether this also applied to same-sex couples since the Bible doesn't mention if it does or not. It only mentions the terms "husband and wife."

[scott snedeker]

The flaw in your question illustrates what happens when some one starts a question with a false premise.

"A black African has no soul, so how can one of them ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and receive salvation? They are beasts and it is our God-given right and duty to steward them as such"

150 years ago, this was a heated Calnvinist debate between John Brown and many pro-slavery Calvnists in America.

This illustratess the futility in using the ancient Abrahamic metaphysical paradigm that commands and condones stoning, slavery, infanticide, and pedophilic rape with modern sensibilty and thinking.

Being Gay identifies you as an outsider in the Abrahamic belief system.

Either you believe the God of Abraham has a need to create an evil being (you) with the purpose suffering and be slaughtered by His "good" children,

or you recognize that these are a bunch mean unclever ideas that reflect the dark nature that ordinary humans possess.

I know without a doubt that the latter exists!

The former is ridiculous unless you abandon modern thinking and believe that the world is flat also! (which BTW, was also taught by the catholic church)

So which belief system do you use to live by?

If you are rational you abandon the God of Abraham.

If you make choices based on fear (of hell) you embrace the God of Abraham wasting your precious life and entitlement to joy for something you cannot prove exits.

Fear-based decisions are irrational, dangerous, violent, and idiotic.

Let go of fear and you will be sane again

[Pablo Rafael]

There are many beliefs about whether sex before marriage is prohibited by the Bible. I am going to avoid dealing with that issue.

I will say that if you believe that the Bible prohibits sex before marriage, that it applies to all couples whether they are same-sex or opposite-sex couples. I am a firm believer that the gender of the individuals makes no difference. All are called by God to live lives that show selfless love toward others. Forgiveness, commitment and devotion are activities not restricted to one type of relationship.

[Daniel]

I would like to point out the matter of marriage within this 'no sex before marriage' rule which is a favorite point for conservatives right now. And it is this: marriage, historically speaking, was about property and lineages. It had little to do with love. It was about making an alliance with another family to amass power as well as wealth.

So what does this say about no sex before marriage? I would say that it has a lot to do with enforcing gender roles which keep men in power over women.

So, I ask you: who is this 'rule' for?

[Alecto]

I would like to add that we have pretty good evidence that, historically, this is one of those rules that no matter what the prevailing attitudes of the society, no one has ever really followed. A recent study of people across multiple different age groups found that, across the board, about 90% of people have had sex before marriage. Looking backwards, at the Puritans, historians have found a statistically significant number of newly weds with "premature births". I'm not saying "everyone else is doing it so it's clearly ok", but I think it's worth considering that even in societies where people collectively agree it's not, there's still a very small number of people who don't. Maybe we're not wired for that?

[bnmoore]

I can think of several non-Abrahamic scriptures off the top of my head that don't mention it at all and certainly find nothing wrong with being un-clothed. Why not ask that question again after it becomes an available option to all? It's a mindless question to be asking here to begin with.

[Bettie]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

I will say that if you believe that the Bible prohibits sex before marriage, that it applies to all couples whether they are same-sex or opposite-sex couples. I am a firm believer that the gender of the individuals makes no difference. All are called by God to live lives that show selfless love toward others. Forgiveness, commitment and devotion are activities not restricted to one type of relationship.

You are so right!! I totally agree with you!

[bnmoore]

I am a man and do not apologize for it. I'm going for snark. If what I hear is true you won't get any after you're married anyway so you might as well enjoy it now. The World's population didn't get to be over 7 billion by people keeping it in their pants. I've seen no indication that they're all married yet everyone still exists. I will say flat out that maybe God doesn't think sex is dirty. We seem to be the one's that are obsessed with how people "Be fruitful and multiply". If you haven't noticed there are a lot more gaybies around too. Even homos know where babies come from.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

The flaw in your question illustrates what happens when some one starts a question with a false premise.

"A black African has no soul, so how can one of them ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and receive salvation? They are beasts and it is our God-given right and duty to steward them as such"

150 years ago, this was a heated Calnvinist debate between John Brown and many pro-slavery Calvnists in America.

This illustratess the futility in using the ancient Abrahamic metaphysical paradigm that commands and condones stoning, slavery, infanticide, and pedophilic rape with modern sensibilty and thinking.

Being Gay identifies you as an outsider in the Abrahamic belief system.

Either you believe the God of Abraham has a need to create an evil being (you) with the purpose suffering and be slaughtered by His "good" children,

or you recognize that these are a bunch mean unclever ideas that reflect the dark nature that ordinary humans possess.

I know without a doubt that the latter exists!

The former is ridiculous unless you abandon modern thinking and believe that the world is flat also! (which BTW, was also taught by the catholic church)

So which belief system do you use to live by?

If you are rational you abandon the God of Abraham.

If you make choices based on fear (of hell) you embrace the God of Abraham wasting your precious life and entitlement to joy for something you cannot prove exits.

Fear-based decisions are irrational, dangerous, violent, and idiotic.

Let go of fear and you will be sane again

I do embrace the God of Abraham of which you speak. However I do challenge traditional beliefs through critical thinking which the reason why I ask questions that may not make sense to some people whether they agree with homosexuality or not.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

I do embrace the God of Abraham of which you speak. However I do challenge traditional beliefs through critical thinking which the reason why I ask questions that may not make sense to some people whether they agree with homosexuality or not.

The person you have been conversing with, that is Scotty, knows all about traditional beliefs. So this begs the question: what and whom are you questioning here, and what has your critical thinking led you to conclude?

And if that isn't clear enough, who are the 'some people' you are talking about?

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

The person you have been conversing with, that is Scotty, knows all about traditional beliefs. So this begs the question: what and whom are you questioning here, and what has your critical thinking led you to conclude?

And if that isn't clear enough, who are the 'some people' you are talking about?

Im questioning society's traditional beliefs whether it be about gender roles, femininity and masculinity, as well as human sexuality. I'd rather not state what I have concluded so far. Last time I did I was accused of saying homosexuality is the devils work. Im tried of explaining myself to those who misinterpret my arguments. Maybe until I find a better way to explain everything then I will. I have really just begun my research so the information that you and everyone else read was just theories that I have just almost recently claimed.

PS: And the reason I mentioned that I challenge traditional beliefs is because I wanted to make it clear as to why I ask some of the question I do on this forum.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Im questioning society's traditional beliefs whether it be about gender roles, femininity and masculinity, as well as human sexuality. I'd rather not state what I have concluded so far. Last time I did I was accused of saying homosexuality is the devils work. Im tried of explaining myself to those who misinterpret my arguments. Maybe until I find a better way to explain everything then I will. I have really just begun my research so the information that you and everyone else read was just theories that I have just almost recently claimed.

PS: And the reason I mentioned that I challenge traditional beliefs is because I wanted to make it clear as to why I ask some of the question I do on this forum.

I can understanding your feeling hurt that you are not being understood, but I hope you will allow me, as someone who has lived long enough to identify with such feelings, to point out that this is an untenable position. Why? It mirrors the position that those you are gay but cannot accept themselves are in.

You might as well say "If I tell you who I am you won't accept me." And guess what? For a young gay man to come out in a conservative environment, you betcha- there may be little if any acceptance, love and warmth.

When you can give yourself what you want from others then the conversation will really begin.

[Magn11]

In bronze age culture there was no DNA testing and no welfare. The only way to appeal to men to stick around and raise chldren was a way for them to ensure their woman's kids were probably their kids. What seems lke a purely private moralistic concern today was in fact a social concern 3,000 years ago. The Jewish laws against adultery are primarily to ensure that a man is responsible only for his own chlildren.

[BishopIoan]

Hi, being Christo-Pagan these days, I do not believe that sex between a loving couple is wrong. The gods and goddesses (and that includes the Christian god) made us potentially loving, sexual beings. As long as the sex is loving, consensual, and not just for one partner to use the other, I see no problem.

Hi Folks,

I'm new here and I have been searching around with no luck so it's time to post my question and see if anyone has an answer