Focus on the Family Citizen Link updates. Warning: Blood boilers enclosed.

[Emproph]

I get so many of these and so often want to respond to them but don’t want to start a new thread for each so I thought I’d just make this thread ongoing.

I wanted to keep this intro separate for future changes. I'll clarify I bit more later, I just want to get this next post up right now.

[Emproph]

Article

Dissection of Highlights:

U.S. Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo., the sponsor of the amendment then and now, said he's pleased the president has endorsed the MPA.

"I don't think this is a partisan issue," he said. "I don't think any party can be out-and-out against marriage, but there are a few activists who are pushing this issue — and primarily pushing it through the courts. And the only way to stop them is with a constitutional amendment, and that's why this vote is so very vital."

"I don't think this is a partisan issue," he said. "I don't think any party can be out-and-out against marriage
-So there’s not a democratic or republican movement "out-and-out against marriage?" Boy that’s a relief.

but there are a few activists who are pushing this issue
-Oh my, so there ARE “activists” “out-and-out against marriage?”

— and primarily pushing it through the courts.
-Why, these “activists” must be in cahoots with the “activist judges” I so often hear of. I didn’t see the connection before, but thanks to your characterization of gay Americans seeking equality as being “activists,” I now do.

And the only way to stop them
-Yes, how do we “stop them” Americans who seek equality?

is with a constitutional amendment,
-Why, if we need a constitutional amendment, this must be the MOST pressing issue our country faces. Otherwise, why would we need to CHANGE THE VERY MEANING OF OUR COUNTRY?

and that's why this vote is so very vital."
-I have to admit, the above option seemed a bit extreme, but your clarification that it’s not just “vital,” but “very vital,” absolutely, completely, entirely, fully, and not unnecessarily redundantly, sets me straight.

Pro-family Americans aren't the only ones speaking out on the issue, however. Homosexual-activist groups have also targeted senators with ads and phone calls. One ad, sponsored by the Human Rights Campaign, goes so far as to say the amendment "would forever write discrimination into the United States Constitution."

Pro-family Americans aren't the only ones speaking out on the issue however.
-Good thing they’re Americans as opposed to those sexual activists who aren’t.

Homosexual-activist groups have also targeted senators with ads and phone calls.
-If it weren’t for that hyphen, I would have forgotten that all homoSEXUALS are activists. But more ominously, groups?

One ad, sponsored by the Human Rights Campaign, goes so far as to say the amendment "would forever write discrimination into the United States Constitution."
-Gosh golly gee, why would they “go so far” as to say that?

Amanda Banks, federal-issues analyst for Focus on the Family Action, said the argument that marriage is somehow discriminatory reflects the confused logic of liberal activists.
-I had no idea that all 'homosexual activists' and therefore gay Americans, are also liberals who support the terrorists who want to kill us all.

"The marriage amendment simply states that 'Marriage shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman,' " Banks said. "This would ensure that the definition of marriage remains the same as it has always been. So, it appears that HRC believes marriage has always been discriminatory, in every country of the world, for millennia. Clearly that is not the case."

"The marriage amendment simply states that 'Marriage shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman,' " Banks said. "This would ensure that the definition of marriage remains the same as it has always been.
-So these “confused” “liberal” “activists” want change? History would be rolling in its grave...

So, it appears that HRC believes marriage has always been discriminatory, in every country of the world, for millennia. Clearly that is not the case."
-Clearly the Human Rights Campaign has no regard for the existence of the past.

[Zerbie]

Omigosh Emproph, do you *really* read these things *every* day?!?!

I screamed my head off a coupla times reading various things I found along those links.

Tsk tsk tsk. I can't believe all the energy they've poured into it. . .

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Omigosh Emproph, do you *really* read these things *every* day?!?!
I screamed my head off a coupla times reading various things I found along those links.

Somebody has to. I’m a masochist for change, what can I say?

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Tsk tsk tsk. I can't believe all the energy they've poured into it. . .

Exactly, this is the very fuel being used to feed the flames of bigotry and hatred. Now, if we could just find a way to make our cars run on it....

All this rage is giving me an idea though. There’s plenty of lies being thrown about and plenty of refutations of those lies, (like the Paul Cameron “studies”). What I don’t see enough of, is what they say when confronted. Without that, I wonder if they have been confronted.

I finally contacted one person regarding a claim that was made and she got right back to me. Though after three emails in total, I think I may be getting the run around, but even public knowledge of that would be telling. I’m still pursuing it though, I’ll keep you posted.

That’s what I’m thinking I’d like to do. Catalog the responses from the people making these claims. Then use those responses in addition to the original evidence refuting their claims to send out to other parties. So that the contact has teeth beyond just some "homosexual activist" ranting.

The whole basis of their bigotry is their belief in the Bible, Christianity. If a pattern of deception can be established on an individual level, I think it would lend credence to the pattern of deception already established on the organizational level.

I’ll try and make it a point to include these people’s individual emails if they make an easily refutable claim.

Their personal claims of Christianity is their achilles heel. If they’re not interested in the truth that can be verified, then they’re certainly not in a position to claim they are interested in truth that cannot be verified. The Bible being the cornerstone of their bigotry, will be defended at ALL cost, lending to yet more evidence of their insanity and nullifying their dishonesty.

At least that’s the theory.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Somebody has to. I’m a masochist for change, what can I say?Exactly, this is the very fuel being used to feed the flames of bigotry and hatred. Now, if we could just find a way to make our cars run on it....

.

Oh my god, I love you!

[Rick336]

The whole basis of their bigotry is their belief in the Bible, Christianity.

I think there's more to their bigotry than their belief in the Bible. They're afraid of us. They fear us because they don't see us as we see ourselves. They see AIDS, pedophile priests, sexual fetishes displayed in public, drugs, STDs, and sex changes. They don't want their kids involved in this bizarre, "sinful", self-destructive behavior.

Their fear of these things overwhelms them and they don't see the well-adjusted, stable gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people and their famlies who simply want to have the freedom to live their lives without fear of violence or discrimination.

Our opponents see that some gay men have promiscuous, unsafe sex and believe that homosexuality is a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle. They call homosexuality a "deathstyle". But it's not our sexual orientation that's unhealthy and dangerous; it's the behavior of unsafe sex with multiple partners.

If our opponents were to say, "We believe that unsafe sex with multiple partners is unhealthy and dangerous," then they'd be right. Gay Health organizations have been saying this for years.

There are lots of things in our society that are unsafe. Among them are cigarette smoking, drugs, unhealthy diets, drinking and driving, guns around children, family violence, unsafe working conditions, toxic chemicals, and so on.

But our opponents don't seem to notice those. Instead, they attack us as a people. They say that gay, lesbian, bisexual, and trangender people live an unhealthy lifestyle and therefore are not worthy of equality.

They also believe that since some pedophile priests molested boys that this proves that homosexuals are not to be trusted around children. But again it's not homosexuality that's the problem. Nor is it priests. It's pedophilia. It's adult men who take sexual advantage of children. Of course there's a reason to be concerned. Parents rightfully want to protect their children. But, if they were to say, "We believe pedophile sexual predators are dangerous and our children need protection," they'd be right and they'd have the LGBT commnuity behind them. Afterall, many gay families have these same concerns.

But that's not what many of our opponents are saying. They're saying that homosexuality and pedophilia are the same thing which is false. They believe that all gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people are potential pedophiles and see this as another reason to deny us equality.

Their beliefs are not based on reality because they can't see reality. They are afraid of us because they don't see us as we really are. That's because most of us are still in the closet. We hide from them. They don't see that we're responsible, well-adjusted, productive members of society with many of the same morals and values that many Americans have.

What they do see is a small percentage of the population ( they say 1% ) who are homosexuals and that among this 1% is what they believe is a large group of very strange and dangerous people. They fear us so they pick and choose Bible scripture to justify their homophobia.

It's all about fear. This is why coming out of the closet is so important to our equality and our survival as a community. They need to see us. All of us. They need to see us as we see ourselves.

If twenty million LGBT people came out to one straight person a year for ten years imagine the impact that would have.

As Harvey Milk once put it, ".....every myth, every lie, every innuendo would be destroyed once and for all. And once you come out you will feel so much better."

Rick

[Emproph]

Rick, I know what you mean about the fear part. My point is that, much of the fear aspect would be eliminated if the lies and deception were absent. At that point we'd be able to agree to disagree significantly more than is possible now. The vitriolic hatred part wouldn't be complicating it.

It's easy enough to look at homosexuals and think that it's unnatural and then to have that confirmed by what you believe is God's inerrant Word. Without opposing information, eventually no distinction is made between personal disgust and "God's" disgust. Throw in the propensity for child molestation and every other social depravity and it all fits together. We truly are evil and something to be feared.

Absent what is NOT true, all that's left are personal feelings and words in a book, but not "threat."

Obviously I'm generalizing, but I think the lies are causing the fear which is what is preventing both sides from having any substantial rational dialogue. Which I think is key to any hope of resolution.

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by Rick336

I think there's more to their bigotry than their belief in the Bible. They're afraid of us. They fear us because they don't see us as we see ourselves. They see AIDS, pedophile priests, sexual fetishes displayed in public, drugs, STDs, and sex changes. They don't want their kids involved in this bizarre, "sinful", self-destructive behavior.

I like what you said Rick. Do you all think, maybe this is just an idea here, that SoulForce might start a campaign or something that isn't about redefining marriage, but redefining homosexuality. What if we started a campaing or invisioned a new word that allowed the public to see a difference between those who live harsh lives and us. Rather than being gay we could be ______ (insert word here). Like when African American's decided to call themselves Black instead. What if we change our name, what if we redefine homosexuality so that these people see us as people, not as horrible gays. Does that make sense? Does anyone see what I am saying? If they hate gays, let them hate gays. We can be different. We can be something, obtain something bigger with a new name.

If we refuse to identify ourselves with sinful behavior, what can they say to condem us?

[seifer_boy]

I'm not surprised really. I went to an ex-gay.org (or is it com? whichever), and I read about something or other that was full of lies. It was an article. So I made a comment under the article about Dobson being a psychopath and that the ex-gay programs should be sued and shut down. Plus I made the comment on how they don't have real psychologists, they just train their own and throw out all scientific evidence given to them.

Anyway, the editor of the website contacted me about the comment and sent me a couple of links. They were about how demon possession is the reason behind homosexuality. I replied back that Jesus would be appalled at their behavior.

[seifer_boy]

Originally Posted by seifer_boy

I'm not surprised really. I went to an ex-gay.org (or is it com? whichever), and I read about something or other that was full of lies. It was an article. So I made a comment under the article about Dobson being a psychopath and that the ex-gay programs should be sued and shut down. Plus I made the comment on how they don't have real psychologists, they just train their own and throw out all scientific evidence given to them.

Anyway, the editor of the website contacted me about the comment and sent me a couple of links. They were about how demon possession is the reason behind homosexuality. I replied back that Jesus would be appalled at their behavior.

This is what I posted:

Dobson is a complete psychopath. I do not trust people who quote the bible “A man who lies with another man shall surely be put to death.” All of these “ex-gay programs” do not work anyways. People can try to change, but deep down they get depressed because they feel like they can’t be who they really are.

If they do think they are happy, then these programs did a great job at brainwashing people. All these programs are ran by fundy Christians and they have turned these programs into a cult. I for one will not be subjected to dehumanizing, humiliation and mental torture.

These so called “psychologists” are trained by these groups. They are not real psychologists. They do more harm to a person than good and in the end, it will destroy many families and relationships.

These programs should be sued and shut down! They ruin everyone’s life!

P.S. If this doublew posted, it's because my internet connection disconnected me and messed it up.