Why the Religious Right would nail Jesus to the cross if they ever really met him...

[Emproph]

LiberalsLikeChrist.org

There is a wealth of information on a range of topics available on this site for refuting just about any anti-Christian – Biblical / Conservative argument several times over – at least. There’s really too much here to do a formal review so I’m going to just include a few links. I’ve spent several hours there already.

There are two sections, one political, one religious.
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Intro on the home page (same link as above)

If Jesus of Nazareth was anything, he was an extraordinary friend of the down- trodden, definitely a Liberal, whose advocacy on their behalf so infuriated the ultra-Conservative religious and political leaders of his day that they had him killed to prevent the public from hearing the very liberal teaching that you will see quoted abundantly in Jesus' own words on this web site !

Those who actually know what the Bible says about the life and teaching of Jesus recognize that far from being like Jesus of Nazareth, today's "Religious Right" are much more like the kind of clerics who battled this revolutionary prophet from the day he opened his mouth until the day they had him nailed to a cross. Although these people claim to represent Jesus Christ, they rarely quote his teaching or follow his example. What they do instead is use his name ("in vain") to promote their ideas, ideas which Jesus himself did not teach, and might well have opposed.
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Intro from the religious section Scroll down for the contents:

Liberals Like Christ.org is not your average "web page". It is a true web of many pages, covering many aspects of the question of how Liberal the Founder of Christianity was, and how Liberal America's "Christians" would be, if they were following his teaching and example. Don't expect to explore this web of sites in a single sitting. Think of the following as a menu of options, or as a table of contents, only a few of which you can explore at one sitting, ( and be sure to bookmark Liberals Like Christ, so that you can come back again and again, and invite your friends to join you.)

If you're new to this site, and don't know if it is worth your time and effort, why not start by seeing what those who have preceded you to this site think of it by checking out testimonials.htm .
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Encourage our Allies / Challenge our Rivals
-List of almost 30 subjects/categories linking to different pages on the site for easy reference, including:

Invite Democrats
Invite Pro-Choice activists
Invite Gay / Lesbian activists
Challenge Conservative Clergy
Invite Christians who think the Bible, instead of God alone, is infallible
Show "Fundamentalists" with scripture how "unfundamental" their beliefs are.
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I think that's enough to get started. Don't forget the political section too.

There's a lot of fascinating stuff in there so if you find something of particular interest please feel free to share.

[SolApollo]

Unfortunantly, I do believe the Religious Right would crucify Christ today. Indeed, I agree that Jesus was a social reformer, and not very popular with the orthodoxy at the time who were more concerned with "the letter of the law" instead of the message and its meaning.

[Dash]

Thanks Emproph! Given my recent forays into debating with conservative voices, I am keenly aware of my need for information. I'll check it out tomorrow.

In other news...I'm presently reading Annie Proulx's book, That Old Ace In the Hole. That woman can sure make up some characters!! Seen on the men's room wall in Chapter 10...

JESUS IS COMING!
(and in a different hand) We'll git him agin.
Toilet paper compliments of Texas sand and gravel

[revtj]

Thanks for the link, that's a good one. Malcolm Boyd, a radical gay priest from the 70s who is still active, wrote a book about a stained-glass Jesus coming back to life. It was so good I used it in my mdiv thesis...only...I can't remember the title of the book! <going to dredge through my papers> The basic idea is that Jesus needs to be liberated from the institution of the church.

My guess is, they'd kill him again if large corporations told them God needed the blood.

[rustaman]

You have to give major credit to John Shelby Spong for his unfailing commitment to this dialogue.
With book titles like "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism", "Why Christianity Must Change or Die", and his newest book "The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love", the former Episcopalian Bishop of Newark, NJ keeps the topic hot. That is why he is one of my hero's.
Maybe his next book should be "Rescuing Jesus from the Christian Right."
Needless to say, there are people in the Christian Right who in all probability would like to crucify Bishop Spong - he routinely receives "christian" death threats.
Thank God for the light of love and understanding.
Russ

[BruceChris]

When we can read books about the bible written by biblical scholars and theologians, who have spent their entire lives studying it? Now and then, when I get into a discussion with someone who only reads the bible, and I point this out, this tends to leave them without a lot of ground to stand on.

And why do so many of them read only the King James translation? They must be afraid that if they admit that there is more than one translation, there will be room for some understanding other than theirs.

(And speaking of King James, wasn't he the one who, oh never mind)

Even a brief reading of Spong, or any other biblical scholar very quickly leads to an understaanding that almost any bible verse will have countless translations that we know of, and others that we know are there, but we do not know what they are.

Still, if anyone is going to start telling the fundies out there that THEY are the Philistines, they had probably better know when to duck. (Right on, Rusty Guy)

P&L, Chris

[Liberal Crozier]

Jesus Christ would be the ultimate theocon makeover........from close-cropped sartorial splendour.....to white suit, with white suede shoes.

Jesus would support war and the Military Industrial Global Complex, and redefine war as peace, and selling and using weapons as promoting defence.

And of course, Jesus would announce that the "liberal" Jesus is really Satan in disguise.

[Joshuan]

Originally Posted by SolApollo

Unfortunantly, I do believe the Religious Right would crucify Christ today. Indeed, I agree that Jesus was a social reformer, and not very popular with the orthodoxy at the time who were more concerned with "the letter of the law" instead of the message and its meaning.

Truer words have not been spoken.

[marutidas]

Crusifying someone was an act of shaming an enemy of the state, and your question was would the religious right go out of their way to crusify Christ, if they really new him, possibly, but it was that act that he forgave all of humanity for all that they had done. Or at least thats my interpritation, That he forgave those who killed him and with that they were saved, and it was his destiny, you dont think that, Jesus, being the son of God, that he didn't know what was going on around him at all times.

Forgive others like Christ has forgiven you, I think is the morale of the story.
It is still a hard lesson, but if you don't learn to forgive, your pain and loss will drag you down and consume you.
There was a woman, her name was Imaculee, who survived the Rwandan Genocide, she was a Tutsi,
She hid a bathroom that was 3'x4' for 3 months with 7 other women.
Everyday she prayed to God to protect her, and she prayed to forgive those Who killed her friends and family.
After her ordeal, She had written a book called "Left to tell, finding God in the midst of the Rwandan holocaust".
She had lost her parents and her brothers and many of her friends, and she was still able to forgive the murderers.

Ok so I got a little off track.
Because of Imaculee's story I pray everyday that God touches the heart of those who hate me. We need to do that even for everyone that they learn to love unconditionally.
That is that I have to say about that.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by marutidas

Crusifying someone was an act of shaming an enemy of the stake, an your question was would the religious right go out of their way to crusify Christ, if they really new him, possibly,

I agree with your whole post--especially the theological part about forgiveness. I also know I have a problem forgiving, but no one ever said it would be easy, did they?

But I also wanted to comment on your opening statement about the significance of crucifixion. It was a method of execution by the Roman Empire which ruled over Palestine at that time. It was a method used especially to "make an example" of "enemies of the state," so as to terrorize anyone else from following the example of the one crucified.

We now have a so-called "Christian" President who has approved the practice of torture and has declared his intention to refuse to enforce laws against torture. There are significant parts of the Christian Right who approve the President's actions. Suppose Christ was from the Middle East (oh yeah, come to think of it, he was). And supposed he got swept up in some U.S. military engagement in the Middle East and sent to Gitmo with a lot of other innocent Middle Easterners who happened to be in the wrong place at the same time. You get the picture?

I think crucifixtion (maybe in the form of "waterboarding") is happening right now in Gitmo and other secret places where civil liberties and human rights no longer apply.

I'd like to forgive Bush and his Christian Right supporters--but first let's try to put a stop to the present day versions of crucifixtion.

Steven Webster

[Lydia]

Originally Posted by Emproph

If Jesus of Nazareth was anything, he was an extraordinary friend of the down- trodden, definitely a Liberal, whose advocacy on their behalf so infuriated the ultra-Conservative religious and political leaders of his day that they had him killed to prevent the public from hearing the very liberal teaching that you will see quoted abundantly in Jesus' own words on this web site !

(emphasis mine)

I agree 100% with the bolded section. Jesus' ministry and message was definitely geared to the undesirables of his society. I'd also argue that true Christianity (as opposed to the "churchianity" or "religiousity" that politicians and church leaders seem to really like for some strange reason) often does do the same thing today.

Is God sickened by the way many Churchians use their faith to justify the oppression or exploitation anyone who isn't a wealthy, straight, white, able-bodied, western man? Of course.

However, this doesn't mean that we can say that we've got Jesus tucked into our back pockets. I don't think any human being can say that they always do WJWD (what Jesus would do).

I understand the intention behind your post - and I agree with most of it.

But I think we need to be careful not to turn Jesus into a Democrat/Liberal (or a Republican/Conservative, or an Independent, or a Green Party member) without his permission.

I think the real tension often lies not between Democrats and Republicans so much as people who want see anyone who hasn't followed "the rules" be punished to the full extent of the law vs. people who think we should extend grace to one another when we mess up.

Or maybe it's between those who read the bible (and other ancient Holy books like the Koran or the Torah) literally and those who don't.

Or something else entirely.

And now I'm rambling. Hope this makes sense to someone. I don't mind clarifying if I don't.

My point is this - we should be very careful about how we refer to those who disagree with us. It's not ok to use Jesus as a battering ram. Even if they do it. Especially if they do it.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Lydia

My point is this - we should be very careful about how we refer to those who disagree with us. It's not ok to use Jesus as a battering ram. Even if they do it. Especially if they do it.

Your post reminded me of a line in the Mother Teresa movie. I forget the context but toward the end she was telling someone how she was looking for her boss, meaning God. He asked her if her boss was pleased with her work and she responded “I don’t know.” That’s the kind of humility I at least aspire to.

It’s the very reasons I don’t want to be like “them” that remind me to keep my judgements of them and my own sense of superiority in closer check, especially when it relates to them. I often fail miserably of course but at least I’m aware that it’s a shortcoming and not something to be celebrated.

What struck me about the title of the site and the way it was described by the link leading to it (how they’d crucify him), was how accurately it matches my own experience with the sociocons I’ve been speaking with elsewhere. I’ve gotten it point blank on many occasions, “Love is not the main characteristic of God,” “nowhere in the Bible does it say that sin requires a victim or intention of malice” etc.

If you don’t recognize the teachings of Jesus as paramount then I doubt they’d recognize Jesus as anything special, unless he ran for office. Could you imagine the attack ads? “Soft on terror.” “Views on homosexuality “unBiblical.” “Practices “psychic” healing.” That’s how they’d crucify him... in the press.

But I digress. God bless their impish little hearts, and the imp in all of us for that matter.

[Joshuan]

Originally Posted by Lydia

(emphasis mine)

But I think we need to be careful not to turn Jesus into a Democrat/Liberal (or a Republican/Conservative, or an Independent, or a Green Party member) without his permission.

I agree. Jesus (Joshua) Kingdom was not of the this world. The titles and parties we have today do not fit into HIS Kingdom structure and will certainly be obsolete when He finally takes control and rights the wrongs that both parties and all political institutions have done.