The KJV Is The Inerrant Word Of God (Jesus Christ)

[Joe Brummer]

CJB,
You have stopped making sense. What does google and paul have to do with the fact you claimed you could and would provide information (truth) about Jesus' words about effeminite men. You didn't. You are here preaching your version of the Word (untruth) and I am willing to listen. You cannot keep ditching the statements you made and not follwoing through on your own claims about the word.

As foar as I have seen you are jumping around, out of focus. I can appreciate how hard it is to keep track of many conversations at once. Just take each post one at a time and reply to the words.

For me, you have claimed you could show me that Jeusus spoke out against effeminte men. I hold that is untrue, and a form a spiritual violence against gays and lesbians, as well as those men who are heterosexual who may be a bit effeminite. I know a few and they are my friends.

Please come though with your claim to show me Christ's word's or admit you are preaching Untruth's to further your own fears and prejudice.


Hugs!

Joe

[cjb]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

Not only did Jesus come to abolish the law by establishing love as a higher law, He actually went against the law & traditions over and over again.

Mt 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

He surrounded himself with "unclean" people.

Lu*15:2
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Yes that's true....but there was a reason.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

He engaged foreign women in intimate conversation.

What is you definition of intimate.

But yes he did have conversation with both and women. That's how he taught.

He rebuked the pharisees & religious leaders for their hypocrisy and idolatry of the law.

He rebuked the Pharisees for not knowing who he was.

M't:12:22: Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
M't:12:23: And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
M't:12:24: But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
M't:12:25: And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
M't:12:26: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
M't:12:27: And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
M't:12:28: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
M't:12:29: Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
M't:12:30: He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
M't:12:31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
M't:12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
M't:12:33: Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
M't:12:34: O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
M't:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
M't:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
M't:12:37: For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

[Joe Brummer]

No offensive but you proved the argument you were trying to refute with this verse.

Nathan said to you:

He rebuked the pharisees & religious leaders for their hypocrisy and idolatry of the law.

You replied with:

M't:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

You only pointed out his was right.

[SolInvictus]

It doesn't directly, but El is the basis for the Old Testament god. Anthropological and historical evidence support that the Jews venerated a local tribal deity, whom they believed was the "best god." Keep in mind, in ancient Mesopotamian culture: duels between competing gods/city-states was a normal activity. However, Yahweh later was elevated to "god of gods," and then to a universal deity. El was most likely adapted and merged with the worship of Yahweh due to the many conquests in the area from Babylonians, Assyrians, and Chaldeans (Neo-Babylonians: Babylon & Medea alliance).

It is interesting that you, once again, ignored the other comments. I will keep praying for you, and that you may learn to calm your anger.

In Peace & Christ's Love,
Sol

[NathanATX]

Originally Posted by cjb

So what does that have do with the name "Nursing Mother"..????

El or YHWH with descriptive
El Shaddai
Shad = female breast
evidence for androgyny of God

English translation: God Almighty

patriarchalization stemming from fear of feminine aspects of God
somtimes explained as 'God of the mountains'
mountains = breasts

The bottom line is that most biblical writers were men. They wrote out of their own culture of patriarchy and subjugation of women. And on top of that the texts were translated years ago while women still were essentially the property of their fathers & husbands. The church has effectively blocked women from an equal participation in forming and leading our holy communities.

I believe God is "gender-less." I believe our faith & our understanding of God can be be wonderfully impacted by realizing that God is more than gender. By acknowledging the divine feminity as well as the divine masculinity of God, we welcome women into an equal & honest journey of faith.

For me this isn't about making God into a Goddess. It's about acknowledging that God is bigger... more masculine and more feminine... than our selfish & chauvinistic concepts.

If praying to Mother God impacts my heart with a new understanding God's compassion... of a mother's compassion... then I welcome & invite that prayer, even though it isn't customary or usual for me.

[NathanATX]

So, in other words, you weren't being honest.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Either Jesus said it or He didn't.

Please acknowledge your lack of honesty.

Mt 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:17-20 (the Message)
"Don't suppose for a minute that I have come to demolish the Scriptures--either God's Law or the Prophets. I'm not here to demolish but to complete. I am going to put it all together, pull it all together in a vast panorama. God's Law is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet. Long after stars burn out and earth wears out, God's Law will be alive and working.
"Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.

"Abolish" doesn't seem to communicate my intent. How about He came to complete the law? Or He came to establish a higher law? What do you think He could have possibly meant by "do better than the Pharisees?" I think it has everything to do with "loving your neighbor as you love yourself."

Lu*15:2
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Yes that's true....but there was a reason.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 15:1-7 (the Message)
By this time a lot of men and women of doubtful reputation were hanging around Jesus, listening intently. The Pharisees and religion scholars were not pleased, not at all pleased. They growled, "He takes in sinners and eats meals with them, treating them like old friends." Their grumbling triggered this story.
"Suppose one of you had a hundred sheep and lost one. Wouldn't you leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the lost one until you found it? When found, you can be sure you would put it across your shoulders, rejoicing, and when you got home call in your friends and neighbors, saying, "Celebrate with me! I've found my lost sheep!' Count on it--there's more joy in heaven over one sinner's rescued life than over ninety-nine good people in no need of rescue.

And...

Luke 5:27-32
"After this he went out and saw a man named Levi at his work collecting taxes. Jesus said, "Come along with me." And he did--walked away from everything and went with him.

Levi gave a large dinner at his home for Jesus. Everybody was there, tax men and other disreputable characters as guests at the dinner. The Pharisees and their religion scholars came to his disciples greatly offended. "What is he doing eating and drinking with crooks and "sinners'?"

Jesus heard about it and spoke up, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? I'm here inviting outsiders, not insiders--an invitation to a changed life, changed inside and out."

It was clearly against the "moral" code for good Jews to mingle with "sinners." Jesus was a rebel.

He lived his life that way to help people see that even though they might feel lost or separated from God, that God loves them and even while they are in their sin they are still his children. The sheep that wandered away was still a sheep. THAT, my friend is the Good News!

What is you definition of intimate.

But yes he did have conversation with both and women. That's how he taught.

Jewish law had strict rules about men interacting with women and with Jews interacting with foreigners. Jesus blew all that out of the water by having profound, deep, personal coversations with women like the "woman at the well."

He rebuked the Pharisees for not knowing who he was.

Wrong.

Matthew 23 (the Message)

1Now Jesus turned to address his disciples, along with the crowd that had gathered with them. 2"The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God's Law. 3You won't go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don't live it. They don't take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It's all spit-and-polish veneer.
4"Instead of giving you God's Law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under these loads, and wouldn't think of lifting a finger to help. 5Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. 6They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, 7preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called "Doctor' and "Reverend.'
8"Don't let people do that to you, put you on a pedestal like that. You all have a single Teacher, and you are all classmates. 9Don't set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of "Father'; you have only one Father, and he's in heaven. 10And don't let people maneuver you into taking charge of them. There is only one Life-Leader for you and them--Christ.

11"Do you want to stand out? Then step down. Be a servant. 12If you puff yourself up, you'll get the wind knocked out of you. But if you're content to simply be yourself, your life will count for plenty.

Frauds!
13"I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God's kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won't let anyone else in either.
15"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned.

16"You're hopeless! What arrogant stupidity! You say, "If someone makes a promise with his fingers crossed, that's nothing; but if he swears with his hand on the Bible, that's serious.' 17What ignorance! Does the leather on the Bible carry more weight than the skin on your hands? 18And what about this piece of trivia: "If you shake hands on a promise, that's nothing; but if you raise your hand that God is your witness, that's serious'? 19What ridiculous hairsplitting! What difference does it make whether you shake hands or raise hands? 20-22A promise is a promise. What difference does it make if you make your promise inside or outside a house of worship? A promise is a promise. God is present, watching and holding you to account regardless.

23"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but on the meat of God's Law, things like fairness and compassion and commitment--the absolute basics!-you carelessly take it or leave it. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. 24Do you have any idea how silly you look, writing a life story that's wrong from start to finish, nitpicking over commas and semicolons?

25"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You burnish the surface of your cups and bowls so they sparkle in the sun, while the insides are maggoty with your greed and gluttony. 26Stupid Pharisee! Scour the insides, and then the gleaming surface will mean something.

27"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You're like manicured grave plots, grass clipped and the flowers bright, but six feet down it's all rotting bones and worm-eaten flesh. 28People look at you and think you're saints, but beneath the skin you're total frauds.

29"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You build granite tombs for your prophets and marble monuments for your saints. 30And you say that if you had lived in the days of your ancestors, no blood would have been on your hands. 31You protest too much! You're cut from the same cloth as those murderers, 32and daily add to the death count.

33"Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this? Never have to pay the piper? 34It's on account of people like you that I send prophets and wise guides and scholars generation after generation--and generation after generation you treat them like dirt, greeting them with lynch mobs, hounding them with abuse.

35"You can't squirm out of this: Every drop of righteous blood ever spilled on this earth, beginning with the blood of that good man Abel right down to the blood of Zechariah, Barachiah's son, whom you murdered at his prayers, is on your head. 36All this, I'm telling you, is coming down on you, on your generation.

37"Jerusalem! Jerusalem! Murderer of prophets! Killer of the ones who brought you God's news! How often I've ached to embrace your children, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you wouldn't let me. 38And now you're so desolate, nothing but a ghost town. 39What is there left to say? Only this: I'm out of here soon. The next time you see me you'll say, "Oh, God has blessed him! He's come, bringing God's rule!'"

[cjb]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

CJB,
You have stopped making sense. What does google and paul have to do with the fact you claimed you could and would provide information (truth) about Jesus' words about effeminite men.

Paul and Google have nothing to do with effeminate men.

But....it has everything do with you locating and submitting the evidence that Paul lived 100 after Jesus Christ. That is your claim....right.

Please come though with your claim to show me Christ's word's or admit you are preaching Untruth's

1. Truth - Joh*10:30 - I and my Father are one.

2. Truth - Joh*14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Joh*16:7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

3.Truth - Acts 9:4-5 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

4. Truth - Acts 9:15-16 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

5. Truth - 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Again...it sounds to me that God/Jesus Christ said that through the Holy Spirit he would teach and Paul was a chosen vessel.

Surely a God who created the universe, became a God in flesh, died, rose again, and the ascended to Heaven....can teach man anytime he so chooses.

Come on...where's your faith...

to further your own fears and prejudice.

And what fear's that...

[Joe Brummer]

Clearly, you are dodging the real debate you started and you are not being honest as you go. I am done.

If you change your mind, and want to have an honest discussion about the truth. I am here for you. I will not indulge you in this run around. SImple as that.

I have asked you show me something you said you could show me, I am perfectly willing to listen and understand you. I have not see those qualities in you. I am done.

[SolInvictus]

Cjb,
I'm agreeing & supporting Joe on this topic:
when confronted with evidence that doesn't support your view, you run away & hide. You tell us to come & provide you evidence: we do & you do not respond. Obviously, this debate is over: you didn't win.

Hope you find peace of mind, love, peace, and understanding one day.

[Joe Brummer]

I will add for the sake of adding it, that I don't think it is about winning or losing. It is about understanding. I wish we could come to one.

[SolInvictus]

Google is a search engine for information, cjb, but not the definitive source.
I have degrees and relavent texts available on hand by religious & academic specialists. These are far more valuable resources, which cite primary & secondary sources. In some cases, I have copies of the primary sources on-hand.

Anyway, when you are ready to be honest, and respond w/ reason - then, like Joe said, a real debate may continue.

[SolInvictus]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

I will add for the sake of adding it, that I don't think it is about winning or losing. It is about understanding. I wish we could come to one.

Good point & I agree, Joe. We didn't reach an understanding, which is unfortunant, thank you for your wisdom.

[Joe Brummer]

Originally Posted by SolInvictus

Good point & I agree, Joe. We didn't reach an understanding, which is unfortunant, thank you for your wisdom.

but please remember that we are not shunning anyone away, I want CJB to post here, and continue to be part of our community. We just need to lay things on the table and talk about them. So, can we find a middle ground? I bet we can! I know and believe we can!

[SolInvictus]

Agreed & I believe we can too.