hello everybody

[olumo]

I feel great to know this site , my goal is specifically to promote the words of GOD and HIS SON from African perspective , i know we may disagree on many areas in other to agree

MY aim is to show how christianity is growing in Africa and how some pastors or reverends are getting fat while their members are suffering ; how genuine christians are really poor and getting poorer everyday , yet with great FAITH not HOPE

Finally i will need the contacts of real and genuine Christian Ministers to promote and expand the words of GOD more than ever before .

GOD bless

[dsdrane]

I can hardly speak for the group, as I've just recently joined the group.

However, I can only imagine the reason no one has responded yet has something to do with your reason for posting to this particular site (not to mention the various spam e-mails coming from Nigeria, etc.)

What IS your reason for posting to this particular site?

[olumo]

First and foremost WHERE I COME FROM MUST NOT BE AN ISSUE , i am an african and proud to be one i may be from nigeria or uganda , it is very insultive to read from people saying or thinking that only africans are crooks , not only nigerians do bad things , anybody can do same , people should stop holier than thou attitude , i really feel insulted , i am from ivory coast in west africa and deal with people in many countries , i may be poor but my integrity counts .I pray thatthis statement may be withdrawn , i may be illiterate but educated to know how to address people , respect is resprocal .
Thanks .

Originally Posted by dsdrane

I can hardly speak for the group, as I've just recently joined the group.

However, I can only imagine the reason no one has responded yet has something to do with your reason for posting to this particular site (not to mention the various spam e-mails coming from Nigeria, etc.)

What IS your reason for posting to this particular site?

[Daniel]

This forum has much in the way of information about nonviolence.

I would like to point out that while you may honestly believe that your country of origin is not an issue, if you lived here in the USA, you would more clearly see and know that it is indeed an issue: there is much anti-gay rhetoric by those who suppose themselves to be the speakers for God, specifically Bishops within the Anglican church of Nigeria. This is not an insignificant matter for those of us here.

Please understand ulomo, that when you speak of promoting an 'African perspective', your questioner (dsdrane), is simply curious to know if that perspective is one that conservative christians on both sides of the Atlantic share, that being the belief that gay and lesbians should not have any legal rights or favorable standing before their creator.

I hope you can respond with more clarity and less defensiveness. I would like to assume that you share the belief gay and lesbian christians are indeed Children of God and deserving of all happiness and joy: for they sincerely wish you the same.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by olumo

I feel great to know this site , my goal is specifically to promote the words of GOD and HIS SON from African perspective , i know we may disagree on many areas in other to agree

Methinks the Lady doth protest too much, eh? [Thanks, Daniel.]

Are you kidding me, Olumo? Why exactly are you posting to this this website? Are you gay? Do you know anyone gay? Or are you simply here to "to promote the words of GOD and HIS SON from African perspective".

And what, exactly, does THAT mean?

I may feel sorry that you feel insulted...if you're a good guy and you posted to this site in good faith. If you didn't, I don't feel bad at all.

A pastor of mine went to the Ivory Coast back in the late 70s. From Maine, no less. I have no issue with Africa, geographically, politically, religiously, etc. To the contrary, I'm favoribly disposed to, specifically, the Ivory Coast!

"it is very insultive to read from people saying or thinking that only africans are crooks".

Your words, not mine. The merits are irrelevant until we establish why you're posting to this site. Again I ask: are you gay? Do you know anyone gay? You "feel great to know this site". Fine. Why?

I lived for 17 years in New York City, Olumo, and I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. Tell me I'm wrong. I'll be the first to apologize.

[suzer1013]

Hi Olumo, and welcome to Soulforce. I am glad you are here, as we need to hear your witness as an African, and as a Christian. I spent a week on a mission in Sierra Leone, and had acquaintances at my last church who spent time in the Peace Corps in Ivory Coast. I know your country has suffered much. We don't get much news of Ivory Coast here, but I hope that the riots and disturbances that were happening in the past year or so have calmed and that relative peace has returned to your country.

I, too, fear that some Christian pastors in Africa are as corrupt as some African governments have proven to be. It is the people who suffer. But I also know there are many, many good Christian pastors in Africa who are doing the right thing, and trying to help the people, trying to alleviate poverty and educate children. I am helping a mission in Sierra Leone try to accomplish those goals.

I hope you will share some more and tell us more about yourself soon. I am sorry if you weren't welcomed more quickly. You have to understand that some in the US are wary when we receive messages or posts from Africa, as many here have been swindled by fraudulent people claiming to be from Nigeria or other countries (I'm not sure the perpetrators are actually from these countries to begin with!). However, that does not make it right to assume that all e-mails from Africa are fraudulent -- as that is most certainly not true.

Folks, we need to remember that there will be people coming here from different cultures. Our language and means of expressing things might be different. We also must remember that much of the evangelism that has happened in Africa has been from a conservative Christian viewpoint, so we shouldn't be surprised when we hear language that seems like conservative hyperbole to us. It may not be intended in the way it comes across. Many countries in Africa are struggling to have access to basic civil rights, not just GLBT rights. I think we have to remember that there are folks in other countries who are at a different place in their journey and come from a very different cultural perspective. Olumo, in my opinion, has done nothing to raise my defenses and should be welcomed as we welcome other newcomers.

Olumo, I welcome you here and hope you will share more with us. God's peace and blessings to you....

Susan

[suzer1013]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

The merits are irrelevant until we establish why you're posting to this site. Again I ask: are you gay? Do you know anyone gay? You "feel great to know this site". Fine. Why?

Hi dsdrane. I haven't been posting much lately, but have been a member on the forums for quite a while. I'm not sure it matters if Olumo is gay or even knows anyone who is gay. ALL are welcome here, unless and until they break Soulforce rules, and I don't see that Olumo has done that.

Perhaps if we extend a gracious hand and begin by loving our neighbors as ourselves, then we will get to know Olumo better and his reasons for posting here. Maybe he is here to learn more about our perspective?

In some African countries, even being on a website like Soulforce is a reason to be arrested and jailed. It is very hard for GLBT advocates in Africa and I wonder if Olumo is simply here to learn about Soulforce and what our organization does. Fannyann Eddy, in Sierra Leone, was a GLBT advocate who was raped and murdered a couple of years ago -- I imagine it is not lightly that someone like Olumo comes and posts here. We try to remain open to all viewpoints, provided they are not abusive, and I think Olumo has remained respectful to this point. I know many of us have been hurt by the rhetoric of some Christians, but I don't sense that Olumo has any such motive.

Just a thought. Blessings to you....

Susan

[dsdrane]

Susan --

Thank you for your post. You're right, of course.

And apologies to Olumo for any hurt feelings. My initial post was, in fact, an attempt to drag a little more of his story out by explaining why people -- perhaps -- hadn't responded to him. I feel very bad that the conversation has played out in the way it has.

Apparently, you can take the boy out of NYC, but it takes a while to get NYC out of the boy. Distrust is as necessary there as oxygen and water, unfortunately. Ironically, it's one of the reasons I finally left.

However, it's a survival technique...and a useful one at times.

I'll be first in line to welcome Olumo, offer him friendship and ask his forgiveness...but I'd like to hear a little more about why he's here and what he's seeking. If you re-read his initial post, there is a case to be made for questioning his motives. This is (largely and fundamentally) a gay site, and, as such, it can and will attract people who are not necessarily friends. No, Olumo doesn't have to be gay, and I shouldn't have taken that tactic with him; however, I've heard nothing yet that tells me he's a friend. All I know is that he wants to promote the word of God and His Son. OK. Sounds good (perhaps). Let's hear more.

I attempted to bring all this up and the response was self-righteous indignation.

Call me crazy, but there's something not kosher here. I hope I'm wrong.

I love being wrong!