Who Thinks A Peace Sign Is Satanic?

[novaseeker]

The question for me is: "is it helpful to think like that (i.e., constantly on the look-out for Satan)?"

I think it isn't, because instead of encouraging the person be awake to reality and constantly looking for opportunities to be loving and life-giving, it instead encourages people to be tentative, suspicious, and judgmental, constantly trying to discern whether something is "of Satan" or not. Generally, it results in a remarkably different approach to daily life and one which, in my own very personal opinion, is not particularly Christian because far from encouraging us to move beyond ourselves and love freely and extravagantly, it instead focuses on the need to keep oneself pure and holy so as to ensure one's own salvation. How far removed this is from the Jesus Christ we meet in the Gospels, who actively sought to sully his hands with the riff-raff of his day, instead of seeking to seal himself off from it to maintain his purity.

[BronzDragon]

Originally Posted by Rick336

Speaking of Satan......where exactly is he? I mean, right now? Is he invisible floating around in the air, entering our souls and making us do bad things? The Bible doesn't have much to say about how Satan actually does his dirty work. In fact, the Bible isn't really clear about Satan at all. The Old testament barely even mentions him.

» Thom says: ☛ On this question, I can only answer from a Satanic perspective. Satan is an archetype, a role in the great theater that is life. This role is a basic, fundamental character, such as Arlecchino who has been in many plays with his awkward grace. Xe is an office found either within the minds of individuals or within the mind of the Eternal One Xerself. (For the Record: A Satanist is one whose whose attitude in their Systems or Cultures of Faith toward Satan or other related personalities (Kali, Lylyth, Set) is favorable or positive.

Where is Satan? As Attorney General in the Court of the Judge at the End of the World, He, She, or Xe is striving to ensure evolution of individuals and species. Xe ensures the quality of creation, and distracts the Posers to God’s throne something to do so they qualify for the Darwin Awards without hurting too many things in Nature.

We expect the attorney general to prosecute children differently that competent adults. So, Satan tests the ignorant differently than she does the wise. She teaches the ignorant — gently sometimes, not so gently at other times — so they may develop into wise adults. This is what happened in the garden, and with Job. The children in the Garden where afraid to trust each other, and later were afraid to take responsibility. Job was afraid of death, or maybe Hell after. In either case, Satan established the lesson plans and the tests that would ensure the lessons developed as expected. In each case, the test is just enough to motivate growth and break the boundaries that prevent that growth.
Satan: An agent of the Gods

In the epic poem of ‘Iob, Satan senses that ‘Iob was being right for all the wrong reasons. So he got Jhwa to help identify the problem. (‘Iob 3.25-26; 29 et al). In this epic poem Satan is identified poetically with roads (ש•[ו]•ט and ש•ט•ן are only nominally related in spelling, though they are different roots). According to the reading in Balak, he is the obstacle in that road. In both cases he has seen a valuable person held back because of a little thing like fear (‘Iob) and greed (Bilºam). In the Gospels the Christ is tested in a rite of passage that established the Christ as a world savior, and not just another greedy nut. Though these tests seem severe, they both relate to the raw anxieties associated with Death. It is in this and the other three existential anxieties that Satanism soars above the abyss of chaos as a Culture of Faith. There is a story that apparently takes place during the Davidic dynasty of Israel. This story is told twice and leaves some confusion as to just whom Satan really is. Someone incites David to violate the Mishpat concerning direct census of the Israeli people (see Ex. 30.11 – 16). This act caused the promised plague. In 2 Samuel 24 it was the Eternal One who was the incitory force. In 1 Chronicles 21 it was the Satan who did that. It then seems risky to declare anything Satanic just because we do not like it. One may inadvertently condemn or bless all the wrong people. The word, “Satan” [ש•ט•ן] comes from Semitic roots through the Hebrew. It means “Adversary,” and most anywhere in the Hebrew Testament you find that word, you can be sure that “Satan” is the word being translated. It seems biased to this author to say that an angel working for Jhwa is an adversary, when one who does not seem to be working for Jhwa is Satan.

The Hebrew Testament is an interesting quilt-work of stories. Some of these stories have roots in historic events, and others do not. Most are somewhere in the middle. The Reading of Balak may have historic roots, yet the original tree has been pruned, and the Judahite branches grafted into suit them who were canonizing the Torah during the reign of Josiah (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2001). As a wrangler, I can accept a man talking to his ass and understanding arising between them. The thought of the jenny ass using human words is a stretch that this horseman finds amusing. This does not diminish its value as a story, nor its moral teaching, that there are some things money just cannot buy.
A Brief Story from Balak

The Story of Balak, son of Zzipôr is that of a king calling upon the sorcerer Bilºam (Balaºam) to curse the dreaded Israeli nomads who had just squashed the Amorites. Balak promised a sum of money if Bilºam, whose curses and blessings held power, would do this curse. After a bit of haggling, Bilºam divined that God gave him permission to go with care.


There is a condition in Divination where the results you want will come forth if you ask enough times. The sorcerer asked enough times (3) to get permission to go. This was a little like a child taking a “maybe” as a definite “yes.” Bilºam’s motives for going are questionable, and the Elohym Jhwa sent one of his boys to take care of the situation. In the words of the Torah, “God was incensed at his going, so an angel of Jhwa placed himself in his way as a Satan. (JPS Numbers 22.22).” The sorcerer had become so blinded by his greed that he did not see the divine being before him, but his jenny ass did. This happened a second time, each with Bilºam’s wrath unleashed upon the jenny. The third time that wise ass had no place to turn but down, and that is when her mouth and his eyes were opened. Bilºam continues, only to do the right thing and thrice bless the Israeli nomads, and curse Balak, his employer.


In this story are found the features of Satan that goes into my definition of that office, and my Satanism in general. I think I will hit a harmonious cord in most Satanists, who will go on and build another part of this road.

[zimnah]

Okay, from a Jewish point of view, I can definitely see the peace symbol as being "satanic..." Satan in the Hebrew Scriptures is simply "The Adversary." Not some evil presence that lies in wait for our souls. In that vein, Peace as an adversary to war makes sense.
However, Kearns is a bloomin' idiot! :-)
--Dawn

[Rick336]

This doesn't explain where Satan is right now. If as Christians we are to believe that Satan is real, shouldn't we be able to explain where he is? Everybody talks about him, nobody can see him. Apparently he's invisible. Satan is an invisible monster that makes people do evil things. And since God created everything, this means that God created Satan.

Then God sent Jesus, who was actually himself in human form, to earth to save the world from Satan the invisible monster who he himself created.

This makes no sense.

Rick

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Rick336

This doesn't explain where Satan is right now. If as Christians we are to believe that Satan is real, shouldn't we be able to explain where he is? Everybody talks about him, nobody can see him. Apparently he's invisible. Satan is an invisible monster that makes people do evil things. And since God created everything, this means that God created Satan.

Then God sent Jesus, who was actually himself in human form, to earth to save the world from Satan the invisible monster who he himself created.

This makes no sense.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I'll check later to see if I can think of some resources or websites that you might find helpful. In Christianity, there are different views on who Satan is. Thankfully, agreeing on this isn't a huge deal. Some see Satan as a real person/entity and some see him/it as an evil force. It isn't hard to accept the latter view, since it is clear that there is evil in the world. To see Satan as a real person/entity, one would accept the traditional teaching that Satan was an angel who fell from heaven (by "fell", I mean chose to rebel against God). The idea is that God gives each individual the choice of whether or not to choose God--free will. This also indicates that God did not create the devil (the bad guy), but rather that God created a good individual (but one, like all of us, who had the choice to turn away from the goodness of God).

When Jesus came, he took the keys of hell and death and therefore overcame satan/the evil one (and therefore all works of evil or darkness). However, we still see that there is evil in this world. The Christian view that I ascribe to is that the Kingdom of God is both a present and future reality. Because Jesus has already been resurrected and thereby overcome death, we can begin to live out the Lord's prayer "thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", so that we live with confidence and faith, and live as loving, godly people in this world. However, the Kingdom of God is also a future reality in that it will not be fully seen until the return of Jesus Christ (a basic Christian doctrine/expectation).

Furthermore, regarding the questions of "where is satan", I will answer that with a question, "where is heaven? where are angels?". When you think of not only the physical area of the universe, but also of the possiblities of an existence that stands outside of time that boggles our minds, then the "where is heaven/hell, etc." is swallowed up by wondering about God who can stand outside of time and space. We live in a physical realm. Yet many people have seen angels while others in the room see nothing. Where was the angel?

This is a quick answer, but maybe it will help. I haven't given any Scriptures or resources, but may be able to in the future if that is desired.

[BronzDragon]

Originally Posted by Rick336

Satan is an invisible monster that makes people do evil things. And since God created everything, this means that God created Satan.

» Thom says: ☛ Like alcohol, Satan does not make us do anything. He may make it easier to violate some code of ethic or taboo by giving us a plausible excuse. And like alcohol, if we use her as such we will bury those feelings of inadequacy, isolation, and worthlessness that alcohol is so good at drowning. The trouble is that in time those drowned feelings will float, and even learn to swim. Unlike alcohol, who knows only what its chemical awareness makes of us, Satan will first laugh at us for abusing her gifts, then accuse us with the terrible truth that we tried so hard to ignore. It is well said, “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you. (Frederick Wilhelm Nietzsche)” Many fight a terrible war against the monstrous Shadow that is within each of us. Yet like so many phantoms, an honest look will dispel most of that Shadow, and she will become the guardian of innocence she is meant to be. If we are honest, and like ‘Iob learn from our adversary, our adversary will soon become our advocate. You see, the Shadow of Satan is the Christ. Why else are both called “The Morning Star?”

[Diane Vera]

Originally Posted by rainbowcat

A peace sign is not satanic. That is ridiculous! Satan is all for war not peace. God is for peace.

Do you believe in the existence of Satan as a being?

My expectation, though I could be wrong about this, is that gay-friendly Christians are likely not to believe in the existence of an all-evil Devil, whereas religious right wingers do in most cases believe in a Devil.

To others here: Is the above expectation correct for the most part?

[Diane Vera]

Some further comments on the following:

Originally Posted by rainbowcat

A peace sign is not satanic. That is ridiculous! Satan is all for war not peace. God is for peace.

Your God is for peace. I suspect you're not a fundamentalist. It seems to me that it would be rather difficult for a fundamentlist to be a pacifist, given the many times that the Biblical God commanded the Israelites to commit outright genocide against the Canaanites and various other people such as the Amalekites. Even in the New Testament, Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." (Matthew 10:34-35)

To conservative Christians, "Good" is obedience to the dictates of their God, and "Evil" is that which does not bow down to their God, regardless of whether it may be "good" or "evil" in the sense of being good or bad for humans in any practical, down-to-earth sense of those words.

As far as I can tell, most liberal Christians do not believe in Satan. So, as far as I can tell, the vast majority of those people who do believe in Satan would not agree with you that "Satan is all for war not peace" and "God is for peace." It all depends on whether the particular war in question serves what they consider to be a godly purpose.

Not only that, but their idea of a godly purpose doesn't revolve primarily around things like fighting against injustice. Rather, they're concerned more with things like Biblical prophecy fulfillment. Thus, for example, Premillenial Dispensationalists tend to be Christian Zionists who have successfully urged to U.S. government to encourage an extremely aggressive stance on the part of the state of Israel.

[BruceChris]

Check back to the original post, and find out where all of this started. Obviously, the whole problem is that this woman is not a proper Stepford wife.

Sense of humor temporarily controlled by The Dark One, Bruce Chris

[Diane Vera]

Since this discussion here has turned theological, I've decided to reply to some posts here in a separate thread GLBT-friendly Christians and belief in Satan, demons, and angels? which is in the "Faith and Nonviolence" sub-forum rather than than here in the "National and World News/Issues" forum. There, I've replied to the following two posts:

* post #22, 01-09-2007, by novaseeker
* post #26, 01-12-2007, by Blossom

[WillySF]

A symbol cannot wield power by itself. The only power held in a symbol is what we collectively assign to it. The peace symbol for the vast majority of people on planet earth is just that. It probably invokes images of free love, dirty feet and long hair just as much as it does for peace. Nonetheless, it is a peace symbol, just like a white dove or a rainbow. There are bound to be superstitious individuals out there that see the devil in everything, but they are just a select group of loonies.