inner conflict

[Tinkerbell047]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

Now there is an expression of connection to God.

Sweetie, do you realize how close you come the the self empowering affirmation of deriving your spirituality from your inner being! As opposed to other than your inner being.


I love it! this is the essential substance of nature-based spirituality (paganism).

You might look at your feet one morning and see hooves in their place!

I fully believe that we can't truly find God without finding Him within ourselves... but I don't consider myself to be pagan... now... waking up one morning with hooves would be quite an interesting experience... ^_^

-Tink

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Don't worry, Tink, whenever he gets like this we just make a cross with our two index fingers and use it to cast a shadow over him. He cries out and shrinks back with his forearm covering his face. Then he behaves for awhile.

just kiddin Scott! We Christians love you from the tips of your horns to the bottoms of your hooves!

Thaaaaaaaank yooooou!

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Oooooooo, can I pet him????

(Tail wags in anticipation)

Originally Posted by u-dog

Better not Daveyboy! He can get kinda frisky sometimes. better stand back.

Doooon't Stooooop! I'm Clooooooose!

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell047

I fully believe that we can't truly find God without finding Him within ourselves... but I don't consider myself to be pagan... now... waking up one morning with hooves would be quite an interesting experience... ^_^



-Tink

Maybe you are overdue for a pedicure my dear!

[alisaeyes]

I am still questioning myself...Its hard to listen to one side and then the other...sometimes I think that it would be better just to stay in the closet then go though this h-ll...but I find that I cant do that...I am just confused...I been a real hard time lately...so I guess that makes me question if I really want to continue on this path...

[BrianB]

Hobo

It's a matter of which h-ll you want to go through. You can live with the fear, loneliness and lack of freedom in the closet or you can take the chance that your friends and family will be more supportive than you imagine. For me, the fear of being found out by accident was greater than the fear of rejection. That was a major motivator for me. It's your closet. You can decorate it and try to be comfortable or you can come out and be free to be completely you.

[tdogg]

To Gman, Tink & Hobo

My heart goes out to you. It's physical, mental and emotional (and spiritual) torment to try and figure out whether you are right or wrong to be who you are, if you can figure out WHO you are. I'm glad you are all here!

It took me YEARS to accept myself and come out of my closet. I was raised in a religious household (Assemblies of God no less), and was taught and preached to, that being gay was the worst of the horrible sins and a ticket straight to hell. I never believed it in my heart.

Now, I've been out for nearly 3 years. Not very long considering my age, but oh what a wonderful world it's been lately! I don't need anyone's interpretation of a book (the bible) to tell me I'm wrong, or I'm right. When I finally came out, it just FELT right in my heart. God/Jesus lives in our hearts right? So if my heart says "this is the right thing for you, be yourself, love who has been sent for you to love" why would I go to a book to tell me any different.

Pray, meditate, listen to your HEART. Not a book. Not other people. Certainly not the likes of Gagnon or the others. Your HEART will guide you and bring your mind to a like place where you can live (not just survive) with yourself, being YOURSELF, living your life and knowing God loves you. You are LOVED, you are SPECIAL, you are WONDERFULLY and FEARFULLY made. Every hair on your head is a precious, special, wondrous thing.

Concentrate on the positive. Like Daniel says, it's the LOVE baby. LOVE. Love yourself, let yourself be loved. When love happens, the fit is perfect (physical, emotional and spiritual). Don't let any PERSON tell you otherwise!

[gman620]

Originally Posted by Rick336

I completely understand why you are hurt that your friends are excluding you from their gatherings. I would also be very hurt. But I have found that sometimes it takes time for friends to come around. But eventually they do. Or at least, many do.

I think you should continue to try to keep in touch with them even though you're hurt by their reaction. It may be difficult, but if you don't, then they might think that you are ashamed of who you are which will only confirm their thoughts that being gay is shameful.

Rick

I appreciate your sincerity in trying to help me Rick, but I didn't tell the whole story. There's a lot more that went on that you don't know about, and I don't have the time to explain it all right now. These people didn't just exclude me from gatherings. They lied to me. They told me they cared about me, and it was not true. I can forgive them for what they did but I cannot wave a magic wand and pretend it never happened. I don't want them in my life anymore. If they wish to apologize, they know how to reach me.

[Paulus]

Well, gman, you heard some comments -- what didn't you hear?

[gman620]

Originally Posted by Paulus

Well, gman, you heard some comments -- what didn't you hear?

I've heard a lot of good things from everyone. I appreciate all the kind words and advice that others have given me. I was particularly steamed yesterday, and I apologize for that, and I am feeling much better now. I have to discard my grudges and move forward. There are many unresolved issues for me (such as being single, which is very hard for me; thank God I have a loving family that keeps me going and that I can talk to; not to mention I think I might have a crush on someone in soulforce) but if this forum has taught me anything it's that it will be OK in the end. I could write a book on all the things that complicated my coming out process (the loss of friends was not the worst thing that's happened to me), but it's all hindsight now. I have to focus on what I have here and now, even if it's just my family and the friends that I still have.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by gman620

They lied to me. They told me they cared about me, and it was not true. I can forgive them for what they did but I cannot wave a magic wand and pretend it never happened. I don't want them in my life anymore. If they wish to apologize, they know how to reach me.

And disappoint us. Let us down. Say they will do things and then don't do them. Say they love us and then act in unloving ways. Even those we call our best friends - our family- can turn on us after many years.

It's hard. Really hard for the heart to stay open under such circumstances. But my sense is that, if we are to love and be loved, we have to take steps to keep our hearts open despite the hurt, because, if we don't, we are bound to find ourselves passing on that hurt to others.

What's helped me a lot is the perception that people do what they do out of Love or Fear. Understanding or ignorance. Clear-eyed perception or cloudy vision. Knowing this, one can start to have a bit of compassion for those who have hurt one. But this doesn't come overnight, especially when our wounds are fresh. It takes time. And persepective. And conscious awareness.

Originally Posted by gman620

I have to discard my grudges and move forward. There are many unresolved issues for me (such as being single, which is very hard for me; thank God I have a loving family that keeps me going and that I can talk to; not to mention I think I might have a crush on someone in soulforce) but if this forum has taught me anything it's that it will be OK in the end..

You are indeed blessed! Many gay people, after they come out, loose everything- friends and family. I'm glad you know that you have a support system.

Crushes can be wonderful. As long as one doesn't suffer from them- and get into the habit of having them. The real thing is...well...infinitely more satisfying.

You know- you could let your 'crush' know how you feel- privately of course. You never know what might happen.

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by gman620

I have to focus on what I have here and now, even if it's just my family and the friends that I still have.

All you truly have is your perception of reality. This is your world. By allowing random events to determine your focus, your world becomes chaotic. By directing your focus on to joy, beauty and those who love you as is, you create a world better for you.

I see this as a step in being very selective of who you allow into your world. You would not, for example, want to include a homicidal psychopath or any form of psychological predator for that matter.

You would want some one who helps you connect to your love of self and thereby making the feeling of love for others come forth without effort.

[gman620]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

You would want some one who helps you connect to your love of self and thereby making the feeling of love for others come forth without effort.

That's probably one of the nicest things anyone's ever told me. You are wise beyond your years!

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by gman620

That's probably one of the nicest things anyone's ever told me. You are wise beyond your years!

Thanks Um! I have 43 years but your comment made me feel young!

[sjbouza]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell047

Something is a sin if we decide it is. Obviously, the 10 Commandments still hold true. Murder = bad, Lying = bad, Worship of false gods/idols = bad. But beyond that sins are what we make them. Some Christians (Baptists and Methodists among others) believe that drinking is a sin. Others, see it like this: Jesus drank. Paul said "wine doth the belly good." All through the Bible they drank alcohol. Drunkenness was condemned... but not a glass of wine with dinner. In this case, alcohol consumption is a sin if you make it one. Now, in my mind... the Bible addresses homosexuality in the same manner... vaguely at best. So, I'm beginning to take the same stand with homosexuality... it's a sin if we make it one.

I think this is one of the best statements about homosexuality and sin that I have ever seen written. I you Tink. You are coming to a greater understanding. I think you are further along than you may think.

Yes, the way that I understand the "sin of homosexuality" that the Bible speaks of is that of idolic worship, child sex and the such. It not once speaks of loving same sex relationships. If a loving same sex relationship was a "sin" then dont you think that it would have been mentioned in that context at some point in the Bible? But it wasnt, the only mentioning of homosexuality ( a word that we all have come to know wasnt introduced into the english translation until 1958 ) was inclusive with acts of other sins and not within a loving relationship.

I have said it before. It is man that has said that homosexuality is a sin. Christ never once said one thing about it. It can be seen that He may have affirmed gay relationships in His lifetime. Man has perverted the Bible and what it says with "his interpretations". Truthfully, what does it matter what others "feel" the Bible says about homosexuality. Ones relationship with God is a personal one, it has nothing to do with how others see it. It is between you and God and no one else. Others have no room to speak on what is right or wrong. They sin daily in their lives too. So who are others to say what is sin and what isnt sin. Just because someone "thinks" the Bible says something doesnt make it true. That is just "their opinion" about what "they feel" about what they have read. Most people dont even read the Bible, they just rely on what other ( ie Pastors, Ministers, etc ) tell them the Bible says. They dont even bother to check for themselves. Christians, I am not saying all, have become blind sheep just following the heard. That is not what God wants for His children. He wants us to learn and determine for ourselves and seek what He wants for our personal individual lives.

Christianity stopped being about Christ a long time ago. It is now about how big a church one can build, how much money one can raise, who has more political power, etc. In other words Christianity is more about money than about Christ. Didnt Christ tell His disciples to lay down everything and follow Him. I dont remember Him saying anything about building elaborate mutli-million dollar churches. Can anyone think of a better way to spend that money than glorifying man? That is all they are doing when they spend stupid amounts of money to build these churches, they are just glorifying themselves, it has nothing to do with God.

People just need to really stop listening to all the hype and rhetoric out there about what the Bible says about whatever. Throw all of the crap that you have heard from others on what they think the Bible says. Listen and seek for yourself what God has to tell you with His word. He is the one and only authority on the subject. I think He would be the one that knows what He meant. Pat Robertson, James Dobson, the late Jerry Falwell are not authorities on anything. They may be Biblically educated, however they are in now way an authority on it. They are human, and as humans they are not perfect. Even Pat Robertson doesnt believe the Bible is the perfect word of God. So if one of the great "authorities" doesnt even believe in the Bible as the perfect word of God, then how can anyone else?