estranged from family?

[KennethJ]

I'm looking for mutual support with others who are estranged from their families. I'm sure there must be others out there in the same situation I'm in... I'm not sure what form this will take (many of us probably don't want to share details in a public forum) so feel free to respond here or send me a private message. Maybe we could set up a private forum (here or elsewhere?) to allow us to share more deeply and support each other on the journey...
Ken

[Daniel]

Kenneth- Thanks for bringing this up. It's about time we had this conversation. And the idea of supporting each other is wonderful. My sense is that many come here because they are estranged from their families in one way or another.

I don't mind certain details.....(us performer types aren't shy!)

Though I see my family from time to time, I consider myself estranged from them. The reason for this, of course, is that they are- for the most part- conservative christians. They have a hard time with my being gay. Another factor is that I had very poor models as regards communication growing up. My parents weren't very demonstrative either. Of course, these factors have only added to the onus of being 'different' seeing that the family 'dynamic' is hardly conducive for change. It's skewed things as far as being able to address matters. And the times I have endeavored to do so- even in the most unconfrontational way- have gone nowhere. One is met with silence.

So- in brief- while we see each other in body, I have struggled my whole life with a feeling of disconnection. Of course, they have too.

It's a matter that's never far from my mind.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course, these factors have only added to the onus of being 'different' seeing that the family 'dynamic' is hardly conducive for change. It's skewed things as far as being able to address matters. And the times I have endeavored to do so- even in the most unconfrontational way- have gone nowhere. One is met with silence.

So- in brief- while we see each other in body, I have struggled my whole life with a feeling of disconnection. Of course, they have too.

It's a matter that's never far from my mind.

let's talk about the weather. let's talk about what happened at the school board meeting. let's talk about doctor's appointments, and what kind of gas mileage we're getting, and how much the electric bill was this month. But don't dare mention how thrilled I am with my relationship, how much I love my boyfriend, or even that we had a delicious dinner at the home of another gay couple.

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents. We "see" our parents regularly. Scott sees his mom and dad nearly every day. I see mine at least once a week. Shouldn't it be easy to announce that we're getting married? nope, we've been conditioned, much like B.F. Skinner showed with pigeons and Pavlov with his dogs, talk about anything gay, and the room goes silent. How can people in such close proximity be so far apart?

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by keltic63

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents.

We did tell our families- one sibling of mine sent a horrible letter stating that she didn't think men should be allowed to marry one another, my parents sent a card, and from the rest of my siblings: nada. Not a word. Hubby's elderly mother was a dear- but was not able to come because of her health.

Keltic- I hope your invitation is responded to with grace and warmheartedness. From both sides.

[KennethJ]

Thanks for responding guys. Although I take no pleasure in your pain, it is good to know that I'm not in this situation alone.

Right now how I am feeling is that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should ever be put in this situation. No one should have to choose between him/herself and their unaccepting family. I devote way too much energy to this conundrum which I cannot win. I could be developing myself in other ways, but instead I spend my days wondering if it is possible to have a relationship with my family and retain an ounce of love for myself. I have had absolutely no support from anyone in my family. I love them dearly, but can't bare the thought of continuing to put on the mask they think is me (the person they are able to tolerate and accept). It's just too difficult... and results in some really messed up states of mind. For a long time, this is what I did, and I developed really debilitating conditions, and at my most vulnerable time, my sisters actually told me that I caused it because of my SIN.

And yet, i see growth happening. For a long time I just rolled with it. I just split myself in half trying to maintain a relationship with them and also be true to myself. I ultimately crashed, had a breakdown and took 3 months off work. Now I'm at a point of being angry for the first time, which is good. I just have no idea what the next step is. And I'm feeling conflicting urges.. part of me wants to shut them out completely, and the other wants to call them and try to forge some kind of new peace. Maybe the path lies somewhere in the middle. I don't know. I do know that I'm tired of being a doormat and I reject any god that thinks I need to kill my true self in order to be whole or holy.

[NathanATX]

Dear one...
You MUST learn to set strong boundaries with your family or anyone who might take advantage of their relationship with you in order to cause you emotional/mental/spiritual harm.

My mother is extremely fundamentalist. She literally burned my younger brother's Harry Potter book she found... the one he had checked out from the library... because she is so afraid of witchcraft.

She has been incredibly emotionally violent towards me because of my sexuality. She has literally been emotionally and mentally abusive.

Thats what it is, ABUSE. Call the shit what it is. And don't let them get away with it.

My mom does not have permission to say anything about my sexuality UNLESS I agree to the conversation. She is not allowed to ask me to edit my conversations about my life/dates/friends/etc. on her behalf. If she wants to be "mom" for me, then I absolutely insist that she act with the decency and love any sane, loving mother should act with. If she's not willing to do so, I have NO PROBLEM cutting her out of my life. While that might seem drastic, and I have done that for periods of time, it's actually quite compassionate.

She has to realize that what she has done is unloving, unChristian, abusive and unkind. It is hideously ugly. Shine the light of truth on the words & behaviors. Make them public. Make others know what they are doing and saying.

By not setting clear boundaries, you are giving them permission to do/say whatever they feel like. You're saying, that in fact, you're not sure if you're really right about all this.

And we both know that's b.s.

You're worth more than the universe in God's eyes. Remind your parents and family of this when they forget it.

Peace,
Nate

[BenL]

KennethJ,

I'm a gay man married to a transman. Charley, my spouse, began transition from female to male two and a half years ago. When he/we told our son and daughter, who are grown and out of the house, what Charley was doing, both children reacted very angrily.

We haven't spoken to our daughter since. She demanded that we stay out of her life. Last month she and her husband moved to the UK without telling us. We only found out a week or two ago from her brother.

Our son has begun to come around. We talk to him regularly on the telephone. In June, we saw him for the second or third time since Charley started transition. He lives in DC, and we live in MA. We see progress on his part, so we're not pushing for more. He still refuses to discuss anything about his mom's transition with us.

My parents are both dead, and I was an only child. I'm no longer close to my cousins, who are scattered all over the country. Charley's siblings are supportive, if a bit clueless, but we don't see them all that often.

Another couple we know (he's trans, she's a bio woman) are expecting a baby in April through artificial insemination with donor sperm. They have already told us that we will be the kid's local grandpas, since both their families live so far away. I find my true family now is my chosen family.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

Dear one...
You MUST learn to set strong boundaries with your family or anyone who might take advantage of their relationship with you in order to cause you emotional/mental/spiritual harm.

My mother is extremely fundamentalist. She literally burned my younger brother's Harry Potter book she found... the one he had checked out from the library... because she is so afraid of witchcraft.

She has been incredibly emotionally violent towards me because of my sexuality. She has literally been emotionally and mentally abusive.

Thats what it is, ABUSE. Call the shit what it is. And don't let them get away with it.

My mom does not have permission to say anything about my sexuality UNLESS I agree to the conversation. She is not allowed to ask me to edit my conversations about my life/dates/friends/etc. on her behalf. If she wants to be "mom" for me, then I absolutely insist that she act with the decency and love any sane, loving mother should act with. If she's not willing to do so, I have NO PROBLEM cutting her out of my life. While that might seem drastic, and I have done that for periods of time, it's actually quite compassionate.

She has to realize that what she has done is unloving, unChristian, abusive and unkind. It is hideously ugly. Shine the light of truth on the words & behaviors. Make them public. Make others know what they are doing and saying.

By not setting clear boundaries, you are giving them permission to do/say whatever they feel like. You're saying, that in fact, you're not sure if you're really right about all this.

And we both know that's b.s.

You're worth more than the universe in God's eyes. Remind your parents and family of this when they forget it.

Peace,
Nate

This is one helluva good rant, Nate!

And you're absolutely right.

It never ceases to amaze me how many family members out there somehow feel that our homosexuality is something we do to them. Such is their self-centeredness and sense of entitlement that they cannot see anything beyond their own assumptions about, well, just about everything. And this can happen in violent and obvious ways or very subtle ways.

Harvey Fierstein's scene with Anne Bancroft towards the end of Torch Song Trilogy sums it up best for me. I can't find the quote online, but it goes something like: the only things I require from people are love and respect...and anyone who cannot give me those two things has no place in my life.

Amen.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Harvey Fierstein's scene with Anne Bancroft towards the end of Torch Song Trilogy sums it up best for me. I can't find the quote online, but it goes something like: the only things I require from people are love and respect...and anyone who cannot give me those two things has no place in my life.

Amen.

I couldn't find that one either, but I did find this quote from Arnold, Harvey's character:

You want to be a part of my life, I'm not editing out the parts you don't like.

[pnggrad79]

Ken,
Like Nathan, I come from a very fundamentalist family, Southern Baptist. When I first realized I was a lesbian, I struggled with it for years before accepting myself. I was married to a man and had two daughters. Then I came out to myself, my girlfriend, and to God (like it was news to HIM). I hid this fact for 3 years from my family, although, they had their suspicions since I left my husband and moved in with my girlfriend. I got questions like, "Is she ever gonna find a husband?" or "Does she date anyone?", or "Why don't you try to get married again?" I thought to myself, "Yes she is dating someone, ME, and sleeping with me, too?" Finally, I came out to my two sisters, who summarily preached to me for 2 years, and then stopped talking to me. They told my brother, who has nothing to do with me, anyway. My sisters begged me not to tell my mother, because she would have a heart attack and die. One day, my mother came out and asked me if I was a lesbian, and I said, "Yes I am". My father called me and ranted at me for 2 hours one Saturday evening. He said that I was deceived, deluded and seduced. He said that if my children succeeded in life, it would be spite of me not because of me. He said that he doubted whether or not I was really saved, because I was choosing to live in sin... That was 3 years ago.

They don't know I married my girlfriend in September, 2004 in Canada. They refuse to allow me to come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas with my wife. I am not allowed around my niece and nephews. I get no birthday cards, and my family has not seen me in 3 years. They never call me. I have tried to call at least once a month, but like Keltic, we talk about everything BUT my wife, my life, my lesbianism. It is the proverbial elephant in the room. And then 5 minutes into the call, my mother conveniently makes up an excuse to have to go suddenly. There is always a roast burning in the oven... ( even at 10 p.m.)

Nathan hit the nail on the head-if they can't deal with the fact that I am gay, then its their problem, not mine. I refuse to give up the love of my life, for people who , even if I wasn't gay, would contribute NOTHING to my life. I refuse to live my life in a way that would make THEM comfortable, but make ME miserable. I refuse to believe in their God who hates me. I choose to believe in a God who loves me unconditionally, accepts my gayness, and has gone to great lengths to prove His love for me.

It gets lonely at holiday time, but my wife has been just wonderful. We go on trips so I don't have to be alone. She has sacrificed time with her family so we can be together. Her family is a different story. Her brother is gay, and lives with his partner in Abilene. He came out about 10 years ago. Her father outed her-asked her if we were married. She said yes. They are ok with it, but don't want anyone else to know. So they accept us, but it is kinda like the "retarded relative" that is kept in a back room somewhere, and not talked about. (Sorry if that offends anyone) At family gatherings, I am not introduced as her wife, I am the "family friend". So is her brother's partner. Sometimes I am not introduced at all. My wife and I have fought several rounds about this, and I am to the point where, if she doesn't acknowledge who I am, I am going to do it myself and it won't be so pretty or polite. ("Yeah, we're friends with benefits.", or "We sleep together", or "This is my wife, that's right, don't look shocked, she is my wife." )

It's not that she is ashamed of me, she is afraid of her mother being embarrassed. My point is if she were married to a man, her mother would have no problem at all introducing him as her husband. She agrees, but is too scared of her mother being embarrassed. What to do?

Anyway, that's my saga....

[paul]

Hiya Ken,

I am sorry for your estrangement. Not only are you not alone, I'd venture to wager that estrangement is the rule vs. the exception. My own story, briefly, my wife loves me but thinks that my being gay means I am broken. My two adult sons want nothing to do with me, and we were very tight before my coming out in December 06, talking several times a week. They have chosen fundamental christianity over me. They are certain they know me better than I know myself...familiar?

I'm not sure what's more damaging, people who straight out (pun intended) reject you? People who pretend "you" don't exist? Or, my all time favorite, those who "love the sinner, but hate the sin." Can't you just feel the "love?" Well of course you can, that "love" helped you "crash and have a breakdown."

You say you are feeling "anger" right now. Sounds like you are working through the mourning process. Sad that, but often true. I read everones entries and just sigh with sorrow, because each is expressing a death in their family (our own). Sort of. The truth is, most of us were never allowed to live in the first place, and we are at varying stages of discovering what it means to simply be alive. I am sorry you have to fight for your life, but you are indeed in a life and death struggle.

Glad you are here. You do have family here.
paul

[NathanATX]

Paul is exactly right. You do have a "family" here.

You know why my mom doesn't have the same gut-wrenching power over me anymore? Because I have intentionally created my own "family of choice." I have women who are like mothers to me. I have men who are like fathers to me. I've adopted cousins, sisters, brothers, aunts & uncles... people whom I love deeply and are always there for me... and for whom I can always be there as well.

You have the power to do the same, my friend.

love,
Nate

[tdogg]

Hi Ken! You have come to the right place to find others going through similar circumstances as yourself.

Mine is similar to Daniel and Keltic - I have a handful of close family members from whom I am emotionally estranged. My stepmother, who used to call me a few times a week, never calls. She has huge issues with me being a lesbian and in a relationship. My father has no control over his life, he is a stroke victim in a wheelchair virtually unable to communicate. Although he has met my partner and seems to really like her, I can't be sure he understands completely, or that if he had his mental faculties he would or wouldn't have issues. Of course they are A of G, fundmentalists. I have a sister who also attends the same church, and after coming out to her, I'm pretty much out of the family. We do see each other now and then and she's very sweet, always gives me hugs and says she loves me. But of course the subject of 'gay' never comes up, they can't bring themselves to talk about it, or my relationship or my partner, much less mention her name.

I too am not welcome to their homes with my partner, we are not welcome around the children. I haven't seen my sisters kids in nearly 2 years. I don't see my dad much, although it's ok for me to go to their house alone. As I don't care to spend functions or holidays away from the person I love, I choose not to attend without her. When I am in conversations with them, I don't leave out any part of my life should a subject come up - I talk about 'us', what we are doing, mention my partners name, etc.

I also have an aunt and I was quite close to her. Like a third mother. We haven't spoken in over a year. Of course this is because I'm gay and in a relationship, and was not open to her attempts to 'save me'. Like Paul says, they always know us better than we know ourselves (in their mind anyway!). I choose to cease communication and to not put up with what I felt was abuse. Recently she send me a simple email that she loves me, I responded likewise and that's it.

I have a friend who, after I came out to her, send me her last words of "may God have mercy on your soul." Nothing else from her.

Otherwise, I have a large group of supportive, loving and accepting friends and family. Although sometimes it does hurt in regards to the others, my supportive family pretty much does it for me. I don't miss the others all that much really.

[KennethJ]

Everyone,

Thanks so much for your responses. I know that sharing our stories with those who can relate is powerful and healing. I hope this was your experience. I relate with so much of what all of you say.

I especially resonate with something Paul said: "The truth is, most of us were never allowed to live in the first place, and we are at varying stages of discovering what it means to simply be alive."

This is profoundly true. One thing I've learned is that, as glbt children of conservative christians, we had to detach from our "true selves" in order to survive. We weren't accepted for who we were.. and it was natural for us to subconsciously change ourselves into what our parents could love... at the cost of our true selves. All of my life I've been the square peg trying to go through the round hole. It's left me feeling deeply defective. Realizing this, though, is healing. It's like I've found my voice for the first time.

It really helps me to hear your voice, and to know that I'm not alone. In reality, we are a strong heavenly choir telling our stories. Keep singing...

[sailaway58]

This is an interesting look into relationship. I sounds like it is not easy for anyone to deal with these issues.
This past week I have been with my boys and my grand children. The first time we all have been together for a long time. The reason I may be a fake is while I am coming a long way toward acceptance and understanding of GLBT's if one of my boys "came out" I can't say I wouldn't be disappointed. In fact I hope to never have to deal with it.
As I read about what some of you deal with makes it even more understandable as to why I should not be silent about the inclusion of the GLBT community in our faith.
I am uncomfortable reading about your relationships, I can only imagine the difficulty in family relationships coming to terms with reality. My oldest son once came home with a girl we all learned to hate, that was tough enough.
(She is gone)

[pnggrad79]

Sailaway,
I am sorry you would be disappointed if one of your grandkids announced they are gay. Believe me, they would already know how you feel. I have a gay nephew who after seeing what his mother put me, her sister, through, will probably never come out, settle for a marriage to a woman he doesn't love, but will to please his mother, and be positively miserable for the rest of his life. I have another friend who is married with 3 boys and at least 2 grandchildren, who confessed to me his attraction to other men, but cannot face this fact, and will not follow through. He lives with enough condemnation from his family.
Point is, if you are inclusive in your own life, it will show. If you say nothing, your silence will say volumes. I have two daughters and if one of them were to tell me they are lesbian, I would be overjoyed! I would be glad that they could come to me and tell me and I would support them unconditionally knowing that they could be who they truly are. I want my kids to be happy, and if that means they are gay, fine by me.

[sailaway58]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Sailaway,
I am sorry you would be disappointed if one of your grandkids announced they are gay. Believe me, they would already know how you feel. I have a gay nephew who after seeing what his mother put me, her sister, through, will probably never come out, settle for a marriage to a woman he doesn't love, but will to please his mother, and be positively miserable for the rest of his life. I have another friend who is married with 3 boys and at least 2 grandchildren, who confessed to me his attraction to other men, but cannot face this fact, and will not follow through. He lives with enough condemnation from his family.
Point is, if you are inclusive in your own life, it will show. If you say nothing, your silence will say volumes. I have two daughters and if one of them were to tell me they are lesbian, I would be overjoyed! I would be glad that they could come to me and tell me and I would support them unconditionally knowing that they could be who they truly are. I want my kids to be happy, and if that means they are gay, fine by me.

It's not that I don't agree with you, It's just when these issues hit home what I say and what I feel might not be the same. I think I would be loving toward my children or grandchildren, I just don't honestly know how I would deal with the conflict in my spirit. I feel no real conflict toward anyone here or even those that live around me that are GLBT but you and they are not mine.
I guess my point in joining in on the thread is to say it is not surprising that families have trouble dealing with these issues, and to say hang in there, people change, hearts change, life changes us. We all want others to love us the way we are. shouldn't we also give that to others?

[pnggrad79]

Sailaway,
Why would you feel in conflict with me? I am a lesbian who would like to see the straight world shape up and stop being hypocritical about their own lives and quit pointing fingers at glbt's. I would like to see James Dobson shut his stupid mouth and quit spreading downright lies about us and keep his straight and very narrow opinions to himself. Doesn't he have a life?
I have no conflict with you, but if you really feel conflict being here, why are you here? I love your signature, doesn't it really say how you feel or did you just think it was clever? I guess I am just confused as to what you're really trying to say here.

[scott snedeker]

Ken,

I read your posts and I see my self years ago. I was a "null" human for many years in my genetic "family" because they either suspected or knew that I was gay. I came out at 26 (17 years ago).

I was the outsider looking in, a son cast out of the family and tolerated painfully.

My parents similarly went through painful adjustments and I had to endure hyper heterosexist rhetoric constantly from my father. I tried many ways of coping with limited success until I finally found something that worked.

First I had a one on one knock-down drag out with my father so there would be no collateral damage to other family members. This established one thing. My entitlement to basic human respect would never go undefended. If he wanted to be in my life from this point on that was the condition. If he didn't find this condition tolerable then I would disappear from him. I used my advantage. Time is on my side-- not his.

The second was one by one discovering a chain of beautiful people who showered me with love and a sense of belonging. I fell in love with one, then a second, third,......to five. A circle of six lovers that seems to grow each year. I feel like i am a six year old again where everyone loves me just because that's the way the world is. I am an insider of a loving, sexy, giving, web of gentle people. My family, the radical faeries

Now I get calls from my genetic family with a tone of query. "why haven't you visited? What's going on in your life?

I am kind and generous to them. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. But I don't want to share my precious private life with my lovers with them. It is sacrosanct and meets my needs and desires.

And it is ironic because now they are the outsiders looking for the in crowd. They see me glow with joy while they struggle with negative emotions.

Sadly it is something they won't understand, And it is impossible for me to share involvement with my family of lovers; each of whom holds my heart.

I feel pity for them if I think too long. They are the victims of homophobia, a great poison that suffocates love and joy......but only if you allow it to....

[u-dog]

;

Originally Posted by sailaway58

This is an interesting look into relationship. I sounds like it is not easy for anyone to deal with these issues.
This past week I have been with my boys and my grand children. The first time we all have been together for a long time. The reason I may be a fake is while I am coming a long way toward acceptance and understanding of GLBT's if one of my boys "came out" I can't say I wouldn't be disappointed. In fact I hope to never have to deal with it.
As I read about what some of you deal with makes it even more understandable as to why I should not be silent about the inclusion of the GLBT community in our faith.
I am uncomfortable reading about your relationships, I can only imagine the difficulty in family relationships coming to terms with reality. My oldest son once came home with a girl we all learned to hate, that was tough enough.
(She is gone)

Sailaway!

You may not know how you would react if one of your grandkids came out to you... but I do. You'd love him/her and you'd become an even more stalwart defender of equal rights than you are already.

I personally am glad that all 3 of my boys are straight... cuz at this point I'm in it for the grandchildren but it always seemed like bad planning on God's part because I would have made a fantastic Dad of a gay son... anyway I'm hopin that at least one of my grandkids is gay because I will surely be ONE HELL OF A GRANDFATHER to a gay child !!

gay kids can and do grow up and bring home wonderful partners. they can and do make families and have children. They can and do have satisfying careers and can make you as proud as straight kids. the only bad part is having to watch ignorant homophobes disrespecting them.

Whatever brings you here to post... I'm glad you're here.