estranged from family?

[pnggrad79]

Paul,
I had an affair with my now wife, while still married to my ex husband. Yes, I committed adultery, HOWEVER, that is in the past. I have confessed it and was forgiven by God. It does me no good, nor does it glorify God, to sit around and embrace past mistakes, failures, sins, etc... God is a god of forgiveness and grace. He doesn't sit there and proverbially pound you over the head over what happened in the past. God understands us as humans and he understands our frailty and our wayward hearts. That would be the whole purpose behind the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
I didn't intend for anything to happen with her, it just did and many times afterwards I would cry and swear I would never do it again. I finally decided to quit lying to myself about my attraction to her, and filed for divorce. I would have filed for divorce anyway, because he was a complete jerk. Our relationship had long been dead, when I began the affair with her. It doesn't justify anything, though. Adultery is wrong, but I maintain that if the church didn't criminalize gay relationships, there would be no reason to hide them.
Point is-please stop beating yourself up over this and tell your sons to respect who you are regardless if they agree with it or not. Are you still married to your wife? Are you in a gay relationship?

My two daughters were older (13 and 16) when I told them I was a lesbian. My oldest daughter has turned away from church and refuses to go to a church that doesn't welcome gay people. The younger one believes homosexuality is wrong, but supports me and loves me nonetheless. Both have marched in Pride parades and love my gay friends. It has been a journey but my kids love me and know that I wouldn't ever do anything to hurt or harm them. My being a lesbian does neither and they know that. It takes awhile. Give your sons time but don't let them beat you up over this.

Keltic has 3 sons and I think they have all come around and support him. He would be a good person to bounce things off of, he's been there with the wife and kids thing and understands the complexity of it all.

I hope things iron out for you and that your kids come around and you get some peace about this whole thing.

[paul]

pnggrad,

Again, thank you.

I don't think I am beating myself up, really. My brain understands why I did what I did. My emotions are getting better, playing catch up. My family, well, they have not had their whole lives to deal with this so I need to be patient. I don't really have any contact with my sons, 26 and 28, by their choice. It's just as well right now. I opened the door to let them vent and they did and I finally said enough so now they don't want anything to do with me. My wife is different. Yes we are still together seeing if we can "make it work." No, I am not in a relationship with a man and haven't been with a guy for a year...a record for me. It's nice being here (at soulforce) because I have a balance that I have never had before, i.e., people who accept me for who I am and don't consider me "broken." That really helps to not be alone because that's where the stupid behavior comes from, being alone, isolated. I agree that the 'church' has done a lot of damage by criminalizing gay relationships...it actually becomes a self fulfilling item. By calling what is natural for gays unnatural and wrong, gays often end up going about relationship in unhealthy ways and hiding. I won't go back there, I'm through with lies and cheating in order to accomodate someones beliefs.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by paul

pnggrad,

Again, thank you.

I don't think I am beating myself up, really. My brain understands why I did what I did. My emotions are getting better, playing catch up. My family, well, they have not had their whole lives to deal with this so I need to be patient. I don't really have any contact with my sons, 26 and 28, by their choice. It's just as well right now. I opened the door to let them vent and they did and I finally said enough so now they don't want anything to do with me. My wife is different. Yes we are still together seeing if we can "make it work." No, I am not in a relationship with a man and haven't been with a guy for a year...a record for me. It's nice being here (at soulforce) because I have a balance that I have never had before, i.e., people who accept me for who I am and don't consider me "broken." That really helps to not be alone because that's where the stupid behavior comes from, being alone, isolated. I agree that the 'church' has done a lot of damage by criminalizing gay relationships...it actually becomes a self fulfilling item. By calling what is natural for gays unnatural and wrong, gays often end up going about relationship in unhealthy ways and hiding. I won't go back there, I'm through with lies and cheating in order to accomodate someones beliefs.

Paul,
Are you really happy with your wife? I know there is more to marriage than just sex, but that has to be difficult for you considering your admission that you are gay. If you feel more comfortable answering this in a private message, please feel free. If you don't feel comfortable of course you don't have to share this with me at all. I would totally understand. I have a dear friend of mine who is married with 3 boys in his 50's who is gay and has had a really hard time being faithful to his wife, whom he admits he does not love, but staying with her for convenience and not wanting to disrupt the family, but he is markedly miserable, and I feel for him.
I know this has to be hard for you and if you feel comfortable discussing it, I am here. I care about you and want you to be happy.
Your sons, if they love you, will ultimately come around, I hope. How long has it been since you told them you were gay?

[paul]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Paul,
Are you really happy with your wife? I know there is more to marriage than just sex, but that has to be difficult for you considering your admission that you are gay. If you feel more comfortable answering this in a private message, please feel free. If you don't feel comfortable of course you don't have to share this with me at all. I would totally understand. I have a dear friend of mine who is married with 3 boys in his 50's who is gay and has had a really hard time being faithful to his wife, whom he admits he does not love, but staying with her for convenience and not wanting to disrupt the family, but he is markedly miserable, and I feel for him.
I know this has to be hard for you and if you feel comfortable discussing it, I am here. I care about you and want you to be happy.
Your sons, if they love you, will ultimately come around, I hope. How long has it been since you told them you were gay?

Hi pnggrad,

No, so far I don't mind discussing this...I trust the people around here and wonder if it doesn't maybe help others to hear this discussed, I know I'm not unique. Am I "happy with my wife?" Not a simple answer. Sure, you are right that "there is more to marriage than just sex." Of course, there is more to being gay than just sex also. I love my wife and believe she loves me. Neither of our love for the other is ideal, but then, I doubt such a thing exists. Bottom line is I don't believe it's all about me and and it's hard to know where to draw the line, so to speak. I'm not talking about being a martyr, there's something delusional about that. But there is self sacrifice in love, on both ends. My wife want's to stay together, she calls me her one and only, so it would hurt her if I left. She would feel dumped. It's complicated, impossible to explain in a few short sentences. The question for me is not so much "do I want to stay with her" as it is "can I stay with her and what is the right, loving thing to do?" For years I worked enormously hard at being faithful to her, and failed. It's still hard now for me to say I couldn't help myself. That contradicted every thing I believed. Of course I could help myself, I just wasn't trying hard enough, or I was missing something or.... I strung myself along forever that way. I even had scripture: "that which I would not do, that do I do...who will rescue me from this body of death..? I thank God, Jesus Christ..." When I accepted my ssa, the compulsion to act on that attraction dropped away. Not that I lost my ssa, just that that can't help myself part was gone. I think it's very ironic (and forgive me to others who find me a broken record, I know I've said this elsewhere) that when it became okay for me to be gay I was no longer compelled to act gay (so to speak). You have to understand, it is relatively new to me for me to accept being gay and yet be free from that compulsive drive. A year ago I would have probably told you the right thing for me to do is to separate from my wife just to protect her from me (my penchant for failing when it came to being faithful sexually). But that part of the equation seems to be gone, I am able to be faithful now that I am not trying to be straight. You see, for 30 years all I wanted was to be able to resist my ssa. I didn't believe in such a thing as "gay." I was "wounded, bent, deviant"...you know all the words we are taught to describe our ssa. Once I rejected those words and accepted myself things flipped around. Now I'm faithful and honest but gay, vs. unfaithful, lying and straight. Gads, I am rambling, I hope I am making some sense? Things are relatively new as far as I'm concerned. I am examining and won't just kick my wife to the curb. I couldn't be happy hurting her. I am currently looking for a counselor for us, think we need one?

[pnggrad79]

You are not rambling, at least that I can see. You make some good points. However, have you read Mel White's book, Stranger at the Gate? He describes how being married to a woman and being gay for many years almost destroyed him. He decided that to be honest about who he was and to truly show love to his wife was to divorce her and let her find someone who could love her like she needed to be loved and he could pursue his ssa with another man and be happy. They remain great friends and she is one of his strongest supporters. I am not suggesting you do that, this is your journey, but it seems to be that your ssa is not going away and I think you are not only cheating yourself but you are cheating your wife. I think you two could remain great friends, but have a love life that is satisfying to both of you with different partners. Just a suggestion as something for you to consider. I hope I didn't offend you and you have probably already considered that. Married people need to seek that which is best for the other person, not what is best for themselves.

After I had the affair with my wife, I realized that sex with a man would not only be a tremendous disappointment to me, I couldn't make myself do that again especially when I had found what filled me up with a woman and not a man. If you are gay, you won't be truly fulfilled mentally, emotionally, or sexually until you live out this part of who you are. The longer you deny yourself, the worse it will get.

Again I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds. These are just things for you to think about. Read Mel's book if you haven't already.

[paul]

Kenneth,
Feel free to yell at me if you feel my exchanges with pnggrad are not germane to your original intent? I believe we are discussing "estrangement" here, but it may be off the mark of your purpose for this thread. Please tell me if this offends and we'll make it private?

pnggrad,

I guess I could read Mel's book. I guess I and many here could have written it also (though I for one, I am sure, could not have written it as well). My point is, I think my identity is pretty intact, it's just what to do with it. When my identity was not intact, I married and established a relationship. My situation, as you note, differs from Mels. My wife is still a brand of Christian that believes I am "broken." She wants to remain married. If I left, she would cut all ties not remain friends because to her way of thinking "leaving" would mean just that. It's very black and white for her. Simply put, I am asking myself: "what would love do?" I have to phrase it that way since I no longer believe I can figure out WWJD.
It's not as simple as whether or not I am "happy being married." I cannot decide on my own, with no input from her, what is best for my wife, nor can she for me. But I can only address my end and that's what I am attempting to do, rather than just bolt and try to escape a rough situation. It's not cut and dried.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Keltic has 3 sons and I think they have all come around and support him. He would be a good person to bounce things off of, he's been there with the wife and kids thing and understands the complexity of it all.

actually, 2 sons, and a daughter.....

and yes, all 3 are doing just fine.

[pnggrad79]

Keltic,
Sorry man! I thought it might be 2 sons and a daughter, but I put 3 sons. Sorry. How are you doing?

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by paul

Kenneth,
Feel free to yell at me if you feel my exchanges with pnggrad are not germane to your original intent? I believe we are discussing "estrangement" here, but it may be off the mark of your purpose for this thread. Please tell me if this offends and we'll make it private?

pnggrad,

I guess I could read Mel's book. I guess I and many here could have written it also (though I for one, I am sure, could not have written it as well). My point is, I think my identity is pretty intact, it's just what to do with it. When my identity was not intact, I married and established a relationship. My situation, as you note, differs from Mels. My wife is still a brand of Christian that believes I am "broken." She wants to remain married. If I left, she would cut all ties not remain friends because to her way of thinking "leaving" would mean just that. It's very black and white for her. Simply put, I am asking myself: "what would love do?" I have to phrase it that way since I no longer believe I can figure out WWJD.
It's not as simple as whether or not I am "happy being married." I cannot decide on my own, with no input from her, what is best for my wife, nor can she for me. But I can only address my end and that's what I am attempting to do, rather than just bolt and try to escape a rough situation. It's not cut and dried.

Paul,
I understand that your wife may not be all that understanding and thinking you are broken is just wrong. The Bible calls all of us to be broken before God, and to empty ourselves of us, and let him fill us up. Please read Mel's book and try to glean from it anything that might help. I will continue to keep you in my prayers, as I know this is a hard thing to deal with. The main thing is that you are at peace with yourself.

[godschild]

Everyone in my family believes im gonna get killed for being gay and then say im going to hell. My girlfriend's mother thinks im the devil himself because her daughter has chosen to be with me rather than go to counseling to "change her ways." Its difficult because I have very little support but I pray to God to bring me around positive people that love God. To me..I have never had a real since of family until I have been with my partner. No one will ever come between that.

[u-dog]

welcome Michelle. We are those people who love God and GLBT people! Make yourself at home. join in the conversation. I am sorry to hear that your parents and those of your GF are not supportive. Cling to each other and make a new family!!

[andrewlittle]

Michelle, I love your screenname. The choice of "Godschild" shows strength and tenacity in claiming your likeness from God, and the eternal love God has for you, even in the face of familial rejection.

It's amazing that those people who believe that the nuclear, heterosexually coupled family is the achetypal creation of God for how all humanity is to live fail to see the unGodly damage that is done by it. Where is the reflection of God's love to be found in the way they ostracize their children - God's beloved? It is such a travesty - I can just imagine God weeping.

[godschild]

Thank you guys for the uplifting. I don't see how they can judge me either. My father was a habitual aldulterer that finally got kicked out the house earlier this year, but I am the one who is staying faithful to my GF. There have been many cases of malestation and rape from men towards me when I was trying to please people with being a "heterosexual", but according to them I have suck it up and get on with life pretending like it never happened. What about all the pain that has been done to me? I have liked girls since I was 7 years old. I dont understand how am I hurting anyone by loving some one who actually loves and cares about me back? Its all confusing to me, but I chose to keep my head up high and be proud of who I am and who God has made me to be. A strong, independent, and loving woman of God. No matter who tries to bring me down, I will always be secure in myself

[Holi]

Looks like an old post, so not sure if you're still around or if you got a support group together. Can relate to what you're looking for. Estrangement happens for different reasons. Sometimes you need a support system to get you through an issue, and sometimes there is some kind of abuse that you can't go back to and you need a support system at the commitment level of extended family. There are resources out there, like counselling, support groups, community groups, www.CreatingExtendedFamilies.com and more. Hope you found/find what you were looking for.

[SolApollo]

Regarding the "blame game," both of my parents asked what they did wrong in my upbringing or was I raped by someone in the past (seriously). Obvioulsy, I told them I didn't choose to be gay, and that is just some genes that made me this way. They are both wrestling w/ it, but said they would accept me & love me no matter (parents are divorced & re-married to other spouses now = divorce happened before my coming out). Mom said she will accept me & future partner (hoping he becomes the guy currently dating, but that's the future...). She cautioned to wait telling my dad until I am committed w/ someone as he may have panic attack (seriously, lol).

Estrangement? Not in a general sense, but I have estranged myself from dad's side of the family as they radical Repunlicans, fundamentalist "Christian" and homophobic (the teabagger variety, ugh). They have narrow viewpoints of the world and believe its "their way or the highway" so to speak; so I keep my distance.

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by keltic63

let's talk about the weather. let's talk about what happened at the school board meeting. let's talk about doctor's appointments, and what kind of gas mileage we're getting, and how much the electric bill was this month. But don't dare mention how thrilled I am with my relationship, how much I love my boyfriend, or even that we had a delicious dinner at the home of another gay couple.

Neither one of us have told our parents about our Commitment Ceremony. He we are, excitedly planning for our big day, and we can't imagine how we're going to tell our parents. We "see" our parents regularly. Scott sees his mom and dad nearly every day. I see mine at least once a week. Shouldn't it be easy to announce that we're getting married? nope, we've been conditioned, much like B.F. Skinner showed with pigeons and Pavlov with his dogs, talk about anything gay, and the room goes silent. How can people in such close proximity be so far apart?

You bring up some good points, Keltic. The first is people reconciling with the fact that you're gay. I have the same thing being transgender. Some folks can't accept the fact that there are other sexualities other than straight. What is a Committment Cermony? It's sounds very interesting.

Gennee