Taboo

[awediot]

With the well rounded, curious thinkers and writers on this site, the boat rocker in me is inspired to action. I always wanted to ask a journalist, anyone in the field or business of freedom of speech or for that matter, a moderator on a controversial forum (Jamie, Hi), what is Taboo? Other than the obvious hate speech, what seems to be the best of avoided topic?... (the ultimate hair trigger, nose to spite your face question. No direct, inciting answer is expected for obvious reasons.)

It is an interesting discussion in a broader sense... What is left in this society that is out of bounds, that Jerry Springer or Howard Stern won't touch? Can we run out of perversions and profanity and is that a bad thing? And are taboo subject always vulgar?

[Jamie McDaniel]

Maybe trying to define the word taboo would help get this discussion going. My Encarta Dictionary reads:

adj
1. socially or culturally proscribed: forbidden to be used, mentioned, or approached because of social or cultural rather than legal prohibitions

2. RELIGION sacred and prohibited: set apart as sacred and at the same time forbidden to be used

n
1. prohibition: a prohibition or rejection of particular types of behavior or language because they are considered socially unacceptable

2. forbidden behavior: a type of behavior or a subject that is forbidden or disapproved of because it is considered socially unacceptable

3. RELIGION prohibition on grounds of being sacred: the practice, especially in some Polynesian societies, of regarding particular things, people, or types of behavior as sacred and therefore forbidden to be used, made contact with, or engaged in


And how is the word taboo related to the word stigmatize? I guess like everything it can be used for good or evil. As activists, isn't one of our main efforts to make homophobia and heterosexism socially unacceptable? And on the flip-side, wouldn't fundamentalists like to make the "love that dare not speak its name" a taboo thing once again?

If I understand the definition correctly, then there's plenty of things I would like to see taboo. And then there are some things that I think have a sense of taboo surrounding them that probably should not.

Maybe I'm overlapping the words "taboo" and "stigmatize" too much here.

As a vegetarian I loved it when Vulcans on Star Trek in the year 2150 thought humans still eating animal flesh was somewhat taboo.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Jamie McDaniel

Maybe trying to define the word taboo would help get this discussion going. My Encarta Dictionary reads:

adj
1. socially or culturally proscribed: forbidden to be used, mentioned, or approached because of social or cultural rather than legal prohibitions...

If I understand the definition correctly, then there's plenty of things I would like to see taboo. And then there are some things that I think have a sense of taboo surrounding them that probably should not.

Maybe I'm overlapping the words "taboo" and "stigmatize" too much here.

There. I said it. Anal Sex. The taboo with a capital T.

Those who want, as Jamie notes, for the "love that dare to speak its name" to shut up and go back in to the closet are frequently anal about anal sex. The ick-o meter just goes off the chart for them. It's the hidden fear & fascination factor in many a conversation. As my father once said to me: "I can't imagine two guys making love!" when in fact, that is what he was doing the whole time.

That said, I like very much Jamie's turning of the tables. I would like to see the vilification of gay people a taboo.

[Zerbie]

Doesn't it seem that homophobes spend much more time thinking about sex acts between gay people than we do?

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Doesn't it seem that homophobes spend much more time thinking about sex acts between gay people than we do?

It's been reported that men think about sex much more often that women and the loudest opponents of gay people are also men. No rocket science there...

What is it with men anyway?

Remember the study that showed that straight identified men got turned on by watching gay sex? They were also self-identiflied as being negative about gays.

As a side note: I work in a theatre and have always been fascinated that straight men, when in the company of gay men (it's about 50/50 at the moment), make the most 'gay' humor by far in the dressing room. It turns into a 'can you top that' situation (Ha!). Is this a feature of male sexuality in general? Competitiveness? Or the allure of the forbidden? I'm not sure. But it's never boring, that's for sure.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Daniel

As a side note: I work in a theatre and have always been fascinated that straight men, when in the company of gay men (it's about 50/50 at the moment), make the most 'gay' humor by far in the dressing room. It turns into a 'can you top that' situation (Ha!). Is this a feature of male sexuality in general? Competitiveness? Or the allure of the forbidden? I'm not sure. But it's never boring, that's for sure.

I think that's a feature of being in the theater. I've spent most of my life in theater (since I was 10) and it's a very particular and strange place. Luckily, I feel more at home there than in any other environment, so I keep plugging away at the singing-thing.

Now, the US as a larger whole has enormous hang-ups about all things sexual, and that is the bulk of our problem right there. If you need a refresher, go read Nathaniel Hawthorne to get a mental picture of what American society was like a couple hundred years ago. Many Americans still grow up being taught that there is something "dirty" or shameful about their bodies and their sexuality. So sex is dirty and bad and embarassing. There are people in this world who feel so ashamed and embarassed about sex that they cannot orgasm. There is immense conflict in the American psyche about all things sexual.

Society says, on the one hand: You are never supposed to have sex unless you are married and using it to procreate.

But - TV commercials, movies, print media, popular music, billboards, . . . the society at large bombards us with messages that we need to be sexy, here's how to look and act sexy, buy this and make your hair sexy, slather this product on your skin to make your skin sexy, wear these clothes to show off your body so you look sexy. . .Er? Contradictory, no?

So everyone is supposed to be sexy but no one (almost) is supposed to engage in sexual behavior because it's bad. It's the dirty necessity to reproducing. Basta.

The big taboo in this arena is the matter of sexual pleasure. As long as you are procreating (with the opposite sex person you have already married) sexuality is God's gift in your life. But if you are not procreating, any pleasure which was once an incidental part of procreation has now become (in the eyes of the neo-puritans) the sole aim of the sex act. You should not use contraceptives, you should not masturbate, and you should not have sex with a same-sex partner. These people don't want anyone to have sexual pleasure unless it happens incidentally while you are trying to have a child. They have decided that is the standard, that anything else is selfish at best, or a blasphemous elevation of sexual desire "above morality" at worst, and they attempt to impose their chosen standard on the rest of society.

Consider that America disdains pleasure. Look at food commercials if you question my premise. How many ads for cookies, cakes, whatever contain words like "decadent, sinful, guilt"? We stigmatize the pleasure of food almost as much as the pleasure of sex. Thus we wind up with a society riddled with food obsessions, anorexia, bulimia, people who eat dessert and then feel guilty. It's not very different from the stigmatization of sexual pleasure. Look around. Notice it.

[Mia14]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Consider that America disdains pleasure. Look at food commercials if you question my premise. How many ads for cookies, cakes, whatever contain words like "decadent, sinful, guilt"? We stigmatize the pleasure of food almost as much as the pleasure of sex. Thus we wind up with a society riddled with food obsessions, anorexia, bulimia, people who eat dessert and then feel guilty. It's not very different from the stigmatization of sexual pleasure. Look around. Notice it.

Ever notice how people say things like "I was so bad" when they talk about eating foods like cake? Give me my old-fashioned Italian family's point of view on that topic - "Nice to see you! Are you hungry? You're not? Don't worry, I've got something delicious for you in the kitchen..."

Another tie-in with the forbidden sex and food - that commercial with Paris Hilton and the hamburger...