Interesting Morning

[sailaway58]

Today at church a few people asked us how our week had been. That seems normal enough. They told us they had been praying for us this week. I said I can always use prayer and kind of laughed it off.
To set the stage properly you need to now that last Sunday night at the study group Cindy and I lead we didn't have much to say as we sat there very heavy hearted and it showed. We told them we didn't know how we were going to be able to live with our convictions and not cause controversy in the church. Our comfort level will ultimately determine how much we can endure. We weren't event sure if we should talk to (these our friends) about what we are experiencing.
A lady from our study group stopped Cindy today and told her that the pastors and another are feeling a real spiritual warfare and she got the impression it involved both Cindy and I. She said she loves us and does not want to see us leave.
Here is what I find both comforting and troubling.
We have friends that love us so much that they are willing to put aside our differences and agree that we at the vary least should love others. They are really trying to understand and are reaching out to us. That is a wonderful feeling.
On the other hand we seem to represent the lightning rod of spiritual conflict. That is a downer.
My question to you is; I know there are several here that stay in non-affirming Churches. Why? Is it possible for us to do good for the cause by remaining in our current church (which we love) and plugging away with the message of loving and accepting all people one person at a time?
When I was a teen I heard at various youth rallies that if you didn't love yourself you are criticizing God, saying God made a mistake. That we must accept ourselves to be able to love others. What I didn't see was the fine print that said, "unless of course you are homosexual, in that case you are unacceptable"
By the way, you all hear from me often but what you don't see is my wife becoming a champion for the cause of equality as well.
Okay, now I have vented, I think I'll post this on my blog page.
I have received every bit as much from this site and individuals here as I have been able to contribute, thanks to all.

[tdogg]

Tim,

Not sure how to respond or what advice to give. I attended a pentecostal church (Assembly of God sect in particular) with my parents for a couple of years. My dad had a stroke and major physical disabilities, my mom is his primary caretaker. It was my way to contribute, help with getting to church and being their company. However, when I finally accepted and learned to love myself, I could not live with the false doctrine preaching from the pastor. It wasn't only his stance of hell for GLBT - homosexuals specifically - but in his hypocrisy in just about everything he preached. In other words, I found little truth and genuineness in this person and the people he surrounded himself with. And, I was having more and more difficulty pretending to be a pentecostal.

So I quit attending. I came out to my stepmom (not sure my dad mentally could understand) and other family. I wasn't stricken from the family, but to be involved in family functions I have to leave my partner behind and pretend our life doesn't exist. That is a bit too difficult to do, so I normally opt to stay away.

I personally can't bring myself to attend a church where I know the people would believe I'm sinning and going to hell. Where they believe people I love and care about are wrong and going to hell. I can't even begin to imagine why the enphasis on hell????? It has never made sense to me.

Mainly, I just want to send some love to you and your wife. I LOVE that you are here with us, and that your wife is our champion as well. You are truly 'family' here and it wouldn't be the same with you Tim. Thanks for all you do, making a stand for what is right and standing up for your convictions. Most of all, you demonstrate love, and that you are one who actually 'got' Jesus lesson in his life here on earth.

[u-dog]

and you were the hero!

the passage was from Luke 17 where Jesus asks which of them, if they had a slave would they welcome the slave in at the end of the day and say "here have a seat let me serve you" Jesus says that rather you would sit down and let your slave serve you and eat later after you were done.

his point is... we don't do what we do for God in order to get thanked we do what we do because God demands it.

MY POINT was that we who are Christians are NOT "volunteers" -- in this thing for the thank you notes and recognition banquets -- but rather that we are servants and we are "in this thing" because God has called us into it.

I took a risk in this not particularly homophobic but not particularly affirming congregation to share your situation and your decision and the cost that you and Cindy are bearing... I asked them if they thought you were volunteers in it for the "feel good" factor or if they thought you were servants ... called regardless of cost.

It was pretty clear what my position is. I got LOTS AND LOTS of positive feedback on the sermon and more than one person said that they would be praying for you. Life is full of surprises. I thought I was gonna get crucified! so anyway... thats what was going on in the spiritual realm that you DIDN"T know about. Ever wonder what else God might be doing with your example?

Keep the faith my brother! It may be that in that church of yours there is a young gay person (like our new friends KYO and AJ) who LONGS TO HEAR that a spiritually mature Christian like yourself doesn't think that he is a horribly deformed monster or an offense to the glory of God. He may never speak to you ... or she may. If s/he needs to talk to someone... or if s/he doesn't ... it is really important that you be there.

the gay teen that still lives inside of me is weeping for joy at your witness and your courage. he knows as I do that it comes at a cost to you. but... as the "J-man" says... "what greater love has anyone than this... that he give his life for his friends.

WWJD? what you're doing ... its pretty clear to me. You are so awesome.

CAN I HAVE AN AMEN???

[sailaway58]

I am truly humbled. Thanks to both of you. You know it helps me so much to write my thoughts but your kindness encourages me so much more.
Tim

This journey Tim & I have been on has certainly been interesting to say the least. It's one I never thought we'd be traveling. We live in a small conservative town and something like this wouldn't ever affect us that much. Man, was I ever wrong! Talk about life being full of surprises! I truly believe that God has called us into this regardless of what some of our churched friends may think. It may come at great costs, but isn't that what He means by
following Him and forsaking all others. It actually feels liberating. I feel I'm following Christ and not what a church denomination wants me to believe.
I can't tell you how much Tim values your friendships and how much it's meant to him and me that you are so honest and open in helping us learn. I wish we could meet each one of you face to face and listen as you share your life experiences with us. Doors are opening to us where we didn't even know there were doors!
Cindy

[Dash]

Originally Posted by u-dog

CAN I HAVE AN AMEN???

Amen!!!

...and peace to you Sailaway.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

his point is... we don't do what we do for God in order to get thanked we do what we do because God demands it.

MY POINT was that we who are Christians are NOT "volunteers" -- in this thing for the thank you notes and recognition banquets -- but rather that we are servants and we are "in this thing" because God has called us into it.

Dave, you really, really, really get it. How come I never saw Christians like you or Tim until now??

the gay teen that still lives inside of me is weeping for joy at your witness and your courage.

You always say things that make me want to hug you.

CAN I HAVE AN AMEN???

I'll give you an AUM.

Tim, what if rather than focus on the conflict, you focus on the message of Christ? Keep your attention on love and inclusion and service, and keep it there whatever wind blows around you and your wife. The others may be lost in the storm for a while, but you have a lamp which shines a light they may come to see. Keep your vision single-pointedly on that which matters.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

I'll give you an AUM.

Tim, what if rather than focus on the conflict, you focus on the message of Christ? Keep your attention on love and inclusion and service, and keep it there whatever wind blows around you and your wife. The others may be lost in the storm for a while, but you have a lamp which shines a light they may come to see. Keep your vision single-pointedly on that which matters.

And she claims that she is not a Christian ... HA! Preposterous. the only person I know who is more of a Christian than you Zerbie is Jesus. (except maybe Paul )

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

And she claims that she is not a Christian ... HA! Preposterous. the only person I know who is more of a Christian than you Zerbie is Jesus. (except maybe Paul )

I'll give you Paul.

[BenL]

Tim and Cindy,

Thanks so much for your witness. I'm in awe of you two, who have learned so quickly and have supported us so selflessly.

As to the question of staying or going, I think you will know if and when it's time to move on. Meanwhile, as Zerbie so eloquently said, focus on the message of Christ, the message of love, the message of inclusion.

As a gay man, I had to leave the church of my upbringing to (Roman Catholic) in order to find God or for God to find me. I could no longer endure the kind of spiritual abuse I had felt for years. I moved to the Episcopal Church, which is similar (and therefore familiar) in its worship style but which freed me to find my spiritual life. I was a member of two other parishes, both for many years, before I found the one I'm in now. All of the experiences helped me to grow in God's love.

From your description, you are well received in the church you are now in. It has been a home and a place of spiritual nourishment. Cindy, you seem to perceive a call in your new mission emphasis. Let it be the call that guides your decisions, and not the limitations of your fellow congregants who find it hard to accommodate your new understanding of the broadness of God's love.

Many people stay in their church because they feel they need to bring that message to their coreligionists. But when you find yourself under spiritual attack, it may be God's voice calling you to new mission fields. All I can say is keep your hearts and minds open to the call.