Is it ever right/good to lie?

snuka12000 · #1 10-10-2007, 10:30 PM

I was doing a Bible study in which I read, JOSHUA 2: 1-14.

In this story Rahab blatantly lies in, JOSHUA 2: 4-6. Rahab lied to protect 2 Israelite spies that Joshua sent. These 2 spies were Israelites; God's chosen people. If Rahab didn't lie for these 2 spies then surly these 2 spies, God's people, would have been killed.

I've been meditating on this. Church folks are quick to say that it's never right or good to tell a lie, ever, under any circumstances. Church folks will say that lying is a sin, etc.

In this story, Rahab was blessed and saved from the destruction of the other people in her city because she lied to protect the 2 Israelite spies.

Is it ever right and/or good to lie? Was it right and/or good for Rahab to lie?

Apparently, under the circumstances, it was right/good for Rahab to lie. Under certain circumstances, is it right and/or good for us to lie? Under certain circumstances, shouldn't it be right/good for us to lie?

Progo35 · #2 10-11-2007, 12:51 AM

I think that kind of situation is analogous to someone hiding Jews during the Holocaust. If that were me and the Gestapo came to my door asking if I had Jews in my basement, you bet I would lie my butt off.

sailaway58 · #3 10-11-2007, 02:14 AM

Most of the time we lie it is to cover our buts for some dumb thing we have done. We can quickly fall into situational ethics which would allow us very little in the way of moral compass. I think we lie all the time about someones hair or to save some ones feelings. To make a blanket statement that you should not lie doesn't really tell the whole story but neither does saying it is okay to lie.

RedneckDyke · #4 10-11-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Progo35

I think that kind of situation is analogous to someone hiding Jews during the Holocaust. If that were me and the Gestapo came to my door asking if I had Jews in my basement, you bet I would lie my butt off.

My thought exactly.
I'd be like "Jews, I don't see no Jews!"

u-dog · #5 10-11-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

My thought exactly.
I'd be like "Jews, I don't see no Jews!"

The evangelical Calvinists of LeChambeau France called Jews "Old Testaments" as they passed them from farm to farm, hiding them right under the Nazi's noses and smuggling them over the mountains into Switzerland. The town saved over 5,000 "Old Testaments" and were never caught. "Jews? I don't see no Jews!"

Now THAT is how a Christian behaves toward oppressed minorities!!!

Vanessa White · #6 10-11-2007, 12:45 PM

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pablo Rafael · #7 10-13-2007, 08:20 AM

I think that the motivation for any action is as important, if not more so, than the action itself. If I know that the truth will be hurtful to someone, I will try to avoid it. Generally not saying something is sufficient. If someone says it is ALWAYS wrong to lie, they are being legalistic. I have heard people say , "I speak my mind" or similar. That usually comes from a person who doesn't care about others and how their words can hurt someone. Sometimes the complete truth is harmful and without love.

However, that being said, I think that only on very rare occasions does a lie show more love than the truth. Generally we lie to try to protect ourselves. Honesty and truthfulness is almost always the best option. One thing that I cannot tolerate in others is dishonesty. I can generally handle the truth, but I will not put up with someone who is dishonest with me. Truth wins out 99.99% of the time.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

antiochian · #8 10-16-2007, 03:58 PM

Mother Maria Skobstsova, a nun born in Russia who emigrated to Paris (eventually dying in a concentration camp), hid Jews and along with a priest made fake baptismal documents for Jews to help protect them. Mother Maria was some years ago canonized a saint by Patriarch Bartholomew. She believed Jesus would have done the same thing to save people's lives.

On the other hand, lying can become an addiction like anything else. I try to be honest, but white lies do escape my lips at times. To tell lies about others (gossip) is a favorite sin of many, I imagine. Especially in rural communities such as I come from. We all know the commandment about bearing false witness...

Zerbie · #9 10-16-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

I think that the motivation for any action is as important, if not more so, than the action itself. If I know that the truth will be hurtful to someone, I will try to avoid it. Generally not saying something is sufficient. If someone says it is ALWAYS wrong to lie, they are being legalistic. I have heard people say , "I speak my mind" or similar. That usually comes from a person who doesn't care about others and how their words can hurt someone. Sometimes the complete truth is harmful and without love.

However, that being said, I think that only on very rare occasions does a lie show more love than the truth. Generally we lie to try to protect ourselves. Honesty and truthfulness is almost always the best option. One thing that I cannot tolerate in others is dishonesty. I can generally handle the truth, but I will not put up with someone who is dishonest with me. Truth wins out 99.99% of the time.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

Totally!! Bravo Pablo!

Generically, I "don't believe in" lies. If revealing the entire truth in any circumstance would be hurtful, I simply do not state the information that would be hurtful. But I will not say something that is simply not so. Words are far too important.

In the Nazi chasing Jew scenario, however, I would. That is a completely exceptional type of case, and I think the case described in the OP is exceptional as well. In more than 99% of life, lying is flatly, plainly, absolutely unacceptable.

I once had to drop someone because he lied to me about having sexual relationships with other people. I could have accepted the sexual behavior. What was non-negotiably unacceptable was that he deliberately lied to me about it. After that, he had no more chances. I think he never realized that I dropped him for having lied about it, not for having done it.

Our word is a very real thing, unless we spoil it. We must always be truthful in our dealings (unless in that extremely rare Nazi type situation,) but truth without love is heartless. As Pablo has already said. We must be truthful, yes, but love must always always always come first.

u-dog · #10 10-16-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Totally!! Bravo Pablo!

Generically, I "don't believe in" lies. If revealing the entire truth in any circumstance would be hurtful, I simply do not state the information that would be hurtful. But I will not say something that is simply not so. Words are far too important.

In the Nazi chasing Jew scenario, however, I would. That is a completely exceptional type of case, and I think the case described in the OP is exceptional as well. In more than 99% of life, lying is flatly, plainly, absolutely unacceptable.

I once had to drop someone because he lied to me about having sexual relationships with other people. I could have accepted the sexual behavior. What was non-negotiably unacceptable was that he deliberately lied to me about it. After that, he had no more chances. I think he never realized that I dropped him for having lied about it, not for having done it.

Our word is a very real thing, unless we spoil it. We must always be truthful in our dealings (unless in that extremely rare Nazi type situation,) but truth without love is heartless. As Pablo has already said. We must be truthful, yes, but love must always always always come first.

Zerbie,

Those jeans make your butt look REALLY big!