Lunch today

[sailaway58]

FYI

I had lunch today with a close friend and he told Cindy and I that the news about our support of GLBT's is getting out because he now knows of someone praying us. They even had their Bible out to show that homosexuality is a sin.
He told us that the person agreed we should love you Gay folks. I guess we are to love with condemnation!
So now the fun is beginning and I love it. Let the shit hit the fan I say, I am already tired of giving a hoot what others think anyway.
It's like getting set free. I love the dance!

[paul]

Sailaway,

I guess you'll just have to come eat with us sinners. I can think of no better company.
paul

[keltic63]

did they offer any clues as to what they thought you should be doing? How do they expect you to "treat" lgbt people? what tactics might you use to love us while condemning our "sin"? really, some practical suggestions might be helpful to you.

[BruceChris]

You're doing the Work of the Lord, so they can't judge you for that, but then again you are being an Enabler, for a bunch of sinners! SHAME on you!

(And if you ask Dr. Robertson, he'll tell you that it just might be catching)

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[dsdrane]

Go, Baby, go!!!

[tdogg]

Hang in there Tim, you are doing an awesome job!

Problem is, when you are doing God's work, the dissenters can't touch you!

Thanks for all you are doing.

[Daniel]

So others have noticed that you aren't reading from their script anymore?
You're right- that is the beginning of something.

Freedom.

[sailaway58]

Thanks everyone for your kind words of support. I have known many loving Christian people in my life. Many are just like the Lady praying for us. She was our baby sitter for several years and she is a wonderful person but concerning this topic I am sure she will not 1. approach us about it, 2. Read anything about the topic that doesn't support her view.
It is sad really because now she is praying for us but her prayers are wasted. I want as many people to pray for me as possible, i just want them to pray for the real needs and concerns I have.

So others have noticed that you aren't reading from their script anymore?
You're right- that is the beginning of something.

Freedom.

Freedom is a good word to describe my feelings about this phase in my life.My freedom is in that I am no longer bound to the chains of fundamentalism. This opens a whole new world to me. I have always pushed my Fundie friends to their limit but now I am really free.
Isn't it funny that my new GLBT friends no how better to pray for me than those I have entrusted my spiritual walk with for years?

Hang in there Tim, you are doing an awesome job!

Problem is, when you are doing God's work, the dissenters can't touch you!

Well, ah, hum... I think there was maybe one disciple that died of old age?

I saw a gay guy in our town the other day. When we were young he knew me as a pretty firm anti homosexual kind of guy. In the last couple years I have made an effort to befriend him and tried to let him know by my actions I accept him for exactly who he is. He even came to my dads funeral.
Just to clarify, my big turn on the topic was the view that homosexuality is not a sin. I quit queer bashing years ago. I think that is what made my coming to fully support GLBT's a little easier.
Any way, he waved at me like I was a long lost friend and I thought, "he heard about Indianapolis".
Our two Lesbian friends go into the hospital to deliver twins today and We received a note thanking us for our friendship and support.
I tell you these things so you know there are many good happenings going on in our life that outweigh the conflicts.
Thanks to all, you help make my journey a pleasant one.

[BenL]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Pastor jeff says that one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to translate all of our wrong headed prayers into the proper prayers before they reach the ears of God. So your friend IS praying the prayers you need. She just doesn't know it yet!!

AND the praying is salutory for her, as well. We all pray with our own agendas (I chose that word deliberately) in mind. We can't help it. It's the way we're wired. But God's agenda transcends our pettiness. Here's a good prayer:
Dear God, please make your agenda my agenda. Amen.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Pastor jeff says that one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to translate all of our wrong headed prayers into the proper prayers before they reach the ears of God. So your friend IS praying the prayers you need. She just doesn't know it yet!!

Who is pastor jeff and is this assertion based on anything more than a guess or wishful thinking?

I'd like it to be true, very much, because I have such a difficult time praying for my friends: I take such a long time developing what I'm praying "for" so that I don't pray for something that won't be for their very very best. It usually turns into, "Hiya God, me again, I'm sure you have this covered already, but would you please give an ounce of extra attention to So n So?" Which is why I don't pray daily - I feel like an idiot.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Rev Jeff Miner, pastor of Jesus MCC and author of "The Children are free"

I emailed Pastor Jeff after I read "The Children are Free". the book was a great help to me as I was coming out of the closet. I received a very nice reply. In fact, I saved it, so I think I'll go read it again.....

OOOPS, make that Tyler Connoley, his partner.....

[rainbow7]

Originally Posted by sailaway58

Thanks everyone for your kind words of support. I have known many loving Christian people in my life. Many are just like the Lady praying for us. She was our baby sitter for several years and she is a wonderful person but concerning this topic I am sure she will not 1. approach us about it, 2. Read anything about the topic that doesn't support her view.
It is sad really because now she is praying for us but her prayers are wasted.

When you said "her prayers are wasted," I immediately thought of a long poem by Mark Twain called "The War Prayer" -- do you know it? A stranger wanders into a church and takes over the pulpit and prays aloud a prayer to God to "help our soldiers defeat our enemies" in graphic detail. He evokes OT language on the order of 'God help us to turn their women and children into widows and orphans and destroy their crops and fields and starve them to death and deliver them into our hands and give us the glorious victory, etc.' and when he stops praying, the congregation is silent. I think that when we pray "wrong" prayers like those of your former baby-sitter -- ask for things that are actually in conflict with the fulfillment of the Gospel -- we are opening ourselves to be changed, because what we pray for says so much about us. And if we can listen to ourselves, then the Holy Spirit can hold up a mirror and we can see ourselves "face to face" (instead of through a glass darkly?) as God sees us. So yeah, your friend is praying the way she needs to right now, but that doesn't mean she might not suddenly hear her own prayer in a new way that will open her eyes and warm her heart (strangely or not)

Thanks for all that you do for justice and Jesus!

Polly

[antiochian]

Sailaway,

The sad part is that there are many like your former babysitter who simply won't open their minds and investigate the truth for themselves. They will have no challenges to the way they think, they are right, and that's final.

I had an enlightening experience a couple months ago with an aunt of mine. Love her to death, but while visiting us she made numerous negative comments about how lbgtq people make her ashamed, are sinful, the same old junk we've heard 9,982.5 times. Some time later I wrote her a heartfelt letter in which I came out to her and while stating my love for her scolded her for her judgmentalism, basically stating that there are other ways of looking at the Bible than just hers. I never heard back from her, but people have called me and said it really struck a chord within my aunt, and it changed her. She's in her early 70's and had been thinking that way for years... I'm so impressed and proud of her for being willing to at least consider the fact that her views were not infallible.

One of the sins of scripture is pride (not the good kind like gay pride or ethnic pride). The bad pride is assuming that you're right, everyone's wrong and being unwilling to hear other's veiws. Many otherwise loving people who can't tolerate homosexuality are simply too proud to rethink themselves.

If I may ask, what made you decide to stop bashing, sailaway??

[iowan woman]

SailAway,

Polly wrote: "...the Holy Spirit can hold up a mirror and we can see ourselves..."

I remember years back hearing a story about a man who spent his life bashing Jewish folks, actively. Somehow, I don't remember the details, he was forgiven by a Jewish couple who ended up taking care of him as he was dying. His story was a testement of grace.
So is yours.

One heart at a time, and so I pray, Amen.

Sailaway, thank you for your very kind note to me. It helped pull me back into this forum when i was ready to quit.

iowanwoman

[sailaway58]

Originally Posted by antiochian

If I may ask, what made you decide to stop bashing, sailaway??

I had some acquaintances that were gay. Some kids in our church came out and stopped coming, not that they ever heard me say anything.
I just couldn't believe it was as simple as a choice and I took the attitude that even though I didn't understand it I was going to be nice and not make it an issue.
As a young man I think being uncomfortable with it made it easy to be obnoxious. I never tried to embarrass a person I thought was Gay but among friends I showed no restraint. I was the same with other minority's.
Now I only bash Amish, I suppose I will feel bad about that someday too.

[antiochian]

Iowan, you were going to leave us?? I would have missed you!

[iowan woman]

Antiochian,

I appreciate you for writing in support of my presence. It is hard to get started.

Tashiker


sailaway,

I recently had repeat customers who were Amish. They were very nice to me, they tipped me a living wage. My step grandpa, from the Decator County area of Iowa, always used to say good things about the Amish folks he knew.
smiles

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by sailaway58

Now I only bash Amish, I suppose I will feel bad about that someday too.

there but for the grace of God......


I had a great, great, grandmother who left the Amish. She married an Irishman

[sailaway58]

Originally Posted by u-dog

And Puppies? do you kick puppies?

Puppies, naw, but don't ask me where the cat is...

[Zerbie]

Iowa,

You are very passionate and compassionate. You are obviously highly sensitive with a deep intuitive sense of right and wrong in an emotional/relational, very human and personal sense. You certainly belong where the people are caring and insightful, and this is one of those places. Definitely keep posting.