Mentoring and Nurturing for Young Folk With Questions

[scrupulous_stoic]

After passing a proposal on to two senior members (not as far as age, but as far as time spent here), and receiving support, I think there is a compromise that can be made concerning the disagreement. I feel that this could work for both Andrew's (u-dog's) and David's wants. I feel that we can open this for questions and inquiries for young people, and protect those from relapses of hurtful times, but also monitor those who are new and might have an agenda that is contrary to the purpose of Soulforce. Those who help on this thread can answer questions to the best of their ability, so that those who truly are suffering and might not seem earnest can still receive relief. For those who are not earnest and are pretending to be a gay youth, the answers provided can still help those who silently read the thread. Also, those who are not sincere can be reported, and thus eliminating any possible threat to the forums here.

[BenL]

I am one of the people who expressed dismay (distaste?) for having to slog through vitriolic posts and responses between people who had registered on Soulforce with the the sole intent of berating us or saving us fom oursleves. I was happy to see that a separate fire zone was established for people who found it envigorating to debate these missionaries from the straight world.

I feel much differently about young people who are hurting, even when they know only the hurtful idiom of their elders. So, I could see myself participating from time to time when I thought my experience or perspective might help one of these younguns. I have also thought that mentoring one-on-one through email or private message might be something I could do, given the right chemistry. Have we ever thought about such a matching?

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by BenL

I am one of the people who expressed dismay (distaste?) for having to slog through vitriolic posts and responses between people who had registered on Soulforce with the the sole intent of berating us or saving us fom oursleves. I was happy to see that a separate fire zone was established for people who found it envigorating to debate these missionaries from the straight world.

I feel much differently about young people who are hurting, even when they know only the hurtful idiom of their elders. So, I could see myself participating from time to time when I thought my experience or perspective might help one of these younguns. I have also thought that mentoring one-on-one through email or private message might be something I could do, given the right chemistry. Have we ever thought about such a matching?

I think that some of us do that already from time to time. Are you talking about somehow formalizing that? what do you imagine that looking like?

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by BenL

I was happy to see that a separate fire zone was established for people who found it envigorating to debate these missionaries from the straight world.

What is this? or... where is this? I've stepped out for a while so if there is some sort of thread or forum where they go to berate us I have no idea where it is. Or I could be completely wrong, so would someone please tell me what this fire zone is? Just so I don't sound completely ignorant... it sounds cool... really, I just don't know what it is.

Originally Posted by dsdrane

I also think we need to more strongly encourage new people to search around past threads for background information. To my mind, new people are starting their own threads before they even know the terrain.

As a teen, I feel a little weird about this. I know that many people express frustration about having to repeat things (my dad does it every time I get up from the table... "Dishes Austin." you'd think I'd learn?) Anyway, People come here for safety, for security. I think, in my opinion, that people are looking to establish personal relationships with folks that have gone through the crap they are going through now. It may be easier to direct them and say, o well that question was answered two weeks ago, here link to two weeks ago. As easy as that is, it is not the best way to establish trust. It kinda feels like the rest of the world. We can't just usher the newbies to old posts. They have the right and deserve personalized stories and reflections, otherwise no relationship is built.

Let's say Johny comes to the forums with a question and a situation that is unique to him. He recently came out to his family at the age of 19 and found that his mother accepted him but his father won't look at him. He believes that his being gay is straining his parents marriage. He comes here looking for advice, for his situation. The last thing we should do is say, "O hi Johny, I understand your situation. We just had this same discussion with Bill two weeks ago. Why don't you go check it out? Link." That isn't really the loving environment we are trying to establish here (at least, I think).

I don't like the idea of a thread or forum for people looking for help. It seems to much like a self help book, or some TV commercial saying "Are you gay? Do you not like your life right now? Do you feel like jumping off a cliff?" It isn't personal. It's fake and counterproductive to their needs. I see nothing wrong with folks starting new threads when they arrive, not knowing how things work. I think everyone has the right to establish their own unique thread pertaining to their own unique situation where they obtain their own unique answers. I see no need to create a new forum for moral support, or one that caters to the needs of youth; this is a community? Isn't that the point? As Udog said, "To provide a place and a method for the young to be nurtured, respected, and taken seriously?" How are we not already doing that?

And I do like the idea of one on one tutoring, mentoring... however, it is a little creepy over the net. I've met some really nice folks, and I've also met some folks who find out where I work and come and ask if I would like to have dinner with them, when they are twice my age. It's a little creepy. I think the mentoring thing works better in person... but that's just me. Good idea, but maybe not best for an online forum.

[scrupulous_stoic]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

What is this? or... where is this? I've stepped out for a while so if there is some sort of thread or forum where they go to berate us I have no idea where it is. Or I could be completely wrong, so would someone please tell me what this fire zone is? Just so I don't sound completely ignorant... it sounds cool... really, I just don't know what it is.



As a teen, I feel a little weird about this. I know that many people express frustration about having to repeat things (my dad does it every time I get up from the table... "Dishes Austin." you'd think I'd learn?) Anyway, People come here for safety, for security. I think, in my opinion, that people are looking to establish personal relationships with folks that have gone through the crap they are going through now. It may be easier to direct them and say, o well that question was answered two weeks ago, here link to two weeks ago. As easy as that is, it is not the best way to establish trust. It kinda feels like the rest of the world. We can't just usher the newbies to old posts. They have the right and deserve personalized stories and reflections, otherwise no relationship is built.

Let's say Johny comes to the forums with a question and a situation that is unique to him. He recently came out to his family at the age of 19 and found that his mother accepted him but his father won't look at him. He believes that his being gay is straining his parents marriage. He comes here looking for advice, for his situation. The last thing we should do is say, "O hi Johny, I understand your situation. We just had this same discussion with Bill two weeks ago. Why don't you go check it out? Link." That isn't really the loving environment we are trying to establish here (at least, I think).

I don't like the idea of a thread or forum for people looking for help. It seems to much like a self help book, or some TV commercial saying "Are you gay? Do you not like your life right now? Do you feel like jumping off a cliff?" It isn't personal. It's fake and counterproductive to their needs. I see nothing wrong with folks starting new threads when they arrive, not knowing how things work. I think everyone has the right to establish their own unique thread pertaining to their own unique situation where they obtain their own unique answers. I see no need to create a new forum for moral support, or one that caters to the needs of youth; this is a community? Isn't that the point? As Udog said, "To provide a place and a method for the young to be nurtured, respected, and taken seriously?" How are we not already doing that?

And I do like the idea of one on one tutoring, mentoring... however, it is a little creepy over the net. I've met some really nice folks, and I've also met some folks who find out where I work and come and ask if I would like to have dinner with them, when they are twice my age. It's a little creepy. I think the mentoring thing works better in person... but that's just me. Good idea, but maybe not best for an online forum.

I agree with most of what you stated. Every situation is different, and has to be treated as such. The one-on-one tutilage can also be problematic on the Internet. However, there is the problem with the unintentional (or intentional) hurt towards those who have been through much pain when reading these posts. How do you see that resolved?

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by scrupulous_stoic

However, there is the problem with the unintentional (or intentional) hurt towards those who have been through much pain when reading these posts. How do you see that resolved?

The (un)intentional hurt towards folks... Use the Johny example... Don't quite understand what you're saying? Explicate...

[scrupulous_stoic]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

The (un)intentional hurt towards folks... Use the Johny example... Don't quite understand what you're saying? Explicate...

As Andrew stated, "There are those on these boards who have heard too much, throughout their lives, of the personal attacks on their own person and re-suffer when they see the same comments again and again."

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by scrupulous_stoic

Like Andrew stated, "There are those on these boards who have heard too much, throughout their lives, of the personal attacks on their own person and re-suffer when they see the same comments again and again."

Gotcha. Ok, I want to say

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this: *proceeds to stomp on his foot*
Doctor: Well then, don't do that!

However... this pain that they feel isn't exactly stomping on your foot is it? Honestly, I have no clue as to how protect everyone from pain. I can't imagine how it must feel to spend 30, 40 years dealing with this crap when I'm barely even 18, and have only been dealing with all this junk for maybe a year and a half/two years.

I think that's what makes this place so great. That there are folks like me who are new and excited and willing and ready and want to go out and fight that fight, and show the world who we are and run the race and such. And then theirs the folks that have run the race, who have been through shit and barely gotten out alive, folks who don't want to go through that again. See, when I get hurt, they catch me. When I go to far, they stop me, or at least warn me that I'm about to run into a wall (and its only after the bruise has appeared on my forehead that I'll listen, but that's a different story). When I'm too arrogant, they let me know. And for those folks who have no fight left in them, I'm here to fight for them, or with them, or to support them. This is a COMMUNITY, one in which we care for and protect each other. That's the beauty of it.

People get hurt, they remember pain. That is something I see no solution for. But this is a community, in which we care for each other, in which we love each other, and yes, sometimes argue with each other. I can't say that I have a solution to the pain. All I can say is we aren't alone, unique... yes, but alone... never.

[scrupulous_stoic]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

Gotcha. Ok, I want to say

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this: *proceeds to stomp on his foot*
Doctor: Well then, don't do that!

However... this pain that they feel isn't exactly stomping on your foot is it? Honestly, I have no clue as to how protect everyone from pain. I can't imagine how it must feel to spend 30, 40 years dealing with this crap when I'm barely even 18, and have only been dealing with all this junk for maybe a year and a half/two years.

I think that's what makes this place so great. That there are folks like me who are new and excited and willing and ready and want to go out and fight that fight, and show the world who we are and run the race and such. And then theirs the folks that have run the race, who have been through shit and barely gotten out alive, folks who don't want to go through that again. See, when I get hurt, they catch me. When I go to far, they stop me, or at least warn me that I'm about to run into a wall (and its only after the bruise has appeared on my forehead that I'll listen, but that's a different story). When I'm too arrogant, they let me know. And for those folks who have no fight left in them, I'm here to fight for them, or with them, or to support them. This is a COMMUNITY, one in which we care for and protect each other. That's the beauty of it.

People get hurt, they remember pain. That is something I see no solution for. But this is a community, in which we care for each other, in which we love each other, and yes, sometimes argue with each other. I can't say that I have a solution to the pain. All I can say is we aren't alone, unique... yes, but alone... never.

Congratulations, you converted the heathen.

I recant what I stated earlier, and agree with what Austin provokingly argued.

[u-dog]

Well... not babes so much... out of the mouths of people who are way too young to be that wise. Austin and Bennett, you are the young warriors of the next generation. You are going to be fine no matter what happens. Some of the young folk who show up here,though, are bleeding and have had an arm and a leg blown off by homophobic IED's. If we decide NOT to have a dedicated thread or forum (and I can go either way on that) then we all need to be careful to be gentle and patient. We all know how internalized homophobia can wound and REwound people AND cause people to wound themselves and the people who are trying to help them. The homophobia and those who perpetuate it are the enemies. everyone else is family.

Just my opinion.

U-dog

[Daniel]

Here's a few of the thought running through my head on the matter of mentoring.

David wasn't the only person rolling his eyes over some of the posts in the past few weeks from 'younger' members on this forum. What is one to make out of all of this? My thoughts run as follows.

As someone who likes to think of himself as 'knowing' a thing or two, all one has to do is give advice a number of times to figure out:

1) From a practical point of view, it's hard to deal with questions that reveal little about the person asking. And the temptation to fill in the blanks is tremendous. And if the person in question has difficulty making sense to themselves, how can the reader make sense for them? Some self-responsibility is needed. Pointing this out is usually seen as a form of criticism. And in a forum like this, where the poster is supposed to be 'helped'- ie show the love we want to have- , that is a no-no. Speaking personally, I think some well-placed criticism is par for the course. It may not be nice, it may not be pretty, and no one likes to have their face shoved in a mirror, but sometimes, that's what''s needed.

Originally Posted by a life example

An example from real life: teaching people to sing reveals some basic things about psychology. If you ask a person to look in a mirror to see what they are doing, they, 9 times out of 10, will avert their eyes. It takes them a long time to be able to look and listen at the same time. I believe the same is true in life. It takes a long time for a person to understand how they are coming across, much less get comfortable in their own skin and curious enough to really 'look' at things. The person who only can think about what they 'want' isn't- by and large- able to do this, if at all. And if they are in survival mode....good luck! Ideally, the student wants something more than having their 'problem' fixed.

2) The person assuming the role of 'mentor' is knighting him/herself. And who the heck cares? No one really. Helping people doesn''t come with a certificate. The only reward is the doing of the thing. And if one's 'help' is ignored or devalued...well...that's life. Not everyone who knows a thing or two is listened to. Sometimes people only 'learn' by doing, even if the 'doing' is the wrong thing. Some have to go over the cliff to know where the cliff is. Oops! There is it!

3) Those with little experience are often only concerned with themselves. They can be very grabby. And if they are in trouble, that's understandable. Give me what I want now! They cry. Don't ask me to sweat a little. Don't tell me stories about how you walked 5 miles in the snow to get to school. Just shut up and give me what I want. Chirp. Chirp. They are all mouth, open to receiving and nothing more. Keep this up and this person becomes a 'take-er'. And things get all muddled up when you have a room - virtual or not- of self-assigned 'giver's' and 'taker's' interacting.

4) We would do well to keep in mind that, while the interactions here seem 'real', they are, in fact, virtual. They are not the same as sitting in a room with another person, knee to knee, heart to heart, eyeball to eyeball. The non-verbal cues that one can glean in a second are not in evidence, which leaves a lot to be desired. As such, this points out, I believe, the need for actual community, as well as the need for everyone involved to tread lightly.

5) Reaching out to a forum like this is one of the wonderous things about our technological age. However, the old saints and mystics taught that one had to seek for answers, not in others, but in one's self. This takes courage as well as a degree of skill. We can hold hands over the web, but learning how to fold them in our own laps and look into our own hearts, minds and souls, is a necessity. No one can do this for us.

[u-dog]

Whats your point?

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Well... not babes so much... out of the mouths of people who are way too young to be that wise. Austin and Bennett, you are the young warriors of the next generation. You are going to be fine no matter what happens. Some of the young folk who show up here,though, are bleeding and have had an arm and a leg blown off by homophobic IED's. If we decide NOT to have a dedicated thread or forum (and I can go either way on that) then we all need to be careful to be gentle and patient. We all know how internalized homophobia can wound and REwound people AND cause people to wound themselves and the people who are trying to help them. The homophobia and those who perpetuate it are the enemies. everyone else is family.

Just my opinion.

U-dog

I agree completely with what you are saying U-dog, sorry if that was left out of my posts. I'm trying to say that we don't need to change anything. We are being patient, we are being kind (at least to my knowledge). I haven't been here for a while, I don't know what these threads are or necessarily what caused this discussion. I'm trying to say that I see nothing wrong here. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Whats your point?

If you don't appreciate them, that's Ok with me. If you have a question about what I wrote, then ask. That said, your line is coming across as being dismissive.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Daniel

If you don't appreciate them, that's Ok with me. If you have a question about what I wrote, then ask. That said, your line is coming across as being dismissive.

You made several points all of which seemed to be leading to something... but I missed what that something was. It was like a legislative resolution with 5 "Whereases" but no "therefore be it resolveds" You made 5 interesting observations ... but what was the point you were trying to make?

I'm not being dismissive... just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Dash]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

Okay, sometimes I am clueless. This is one of those times. What did I do to piss you off, David?

Steppin' in for friendship maintenance... Take a look again at what David wrote. He was providing some suggestions about the situation. He acknowledged beforehand that the last suggestion can be taken badly...

Originally Posted by dsdrane

...off of the foyer, it sounds like we need a coat closet.

Then, once we've determined that new visitors are truthful and sincere, we can open the door wider to let them into our house.

And then lead them into the nursery.

That sounds trite, but I'm quite serious.

Now...the thing that is upsetting is both subtle and yet cuts deeply...

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

Also, the comment about the "nursery" did, indeed, sound both trite and like an effort to trivialize the concerns of young posters.

You kinda took his own words and used them against him. He addressed the situation...you addressed him. Make sense?

Now... In regard to the thread topic:

Mel White has addressed the Soulforce's stance to the common Biblical-based questions about gay issues. This is where new folks should be directed. If they don't agree (at least essentially) with Mel they'll probably not find a happy home here. Mel's position addresses EVERY BIBLICAL/CHRISTIAN GAY ISSUE. No one here...I'm sorry...NO ONE is going to do it better or more completely than Mel. AND...if they don't KNOW what Mel has said, or don't AGREE with what Mel has said (at least for the most part) they are not going to find a happy home in these forums...

...and the regular Soulforciers are not going to be comfortable with them.

And oh yah...I have a hard time with some of the posters. I get a funny feeling when I read posts that don't address, dissect or question the horrible anti-gay rants...they merely repost them and say, "Look!"

I ALWAYS want to call "Sock puppet" or "Concern Troll".

Now, I ALWAYS think I might be wrong, and it's entirely possible that I am on very rare occasions.

[Vanessa White]

I can say that for myself, regardless of the age of the poster, I have had difficulty stirring up the courage at times to address anti-gay sentiment that finds its way here. I am definitely finding that easier as time goes by and I embrace myself in a more loving way.

However, this where I get stuck.

Because we are talking about virtual conversations here, I cannot always tell when a person is being ignorant to evolving in regard to the issues, really seeking support and awareness, and when someone is just being beligerent, attacking, and violent with their words. I really never thought of referring people elsewhere than within the forums here, but I think that is excellent feedback, to have the person read what Mel has written.

I admit, I do feel the need to mentor here at times, to offer support, "Yeah I been there too" kind of encouragement. Because that is what this place is about in part, correct?

I also appreciate what Austin posted, as far as not seeing the need for a separate place to offer those supports. I mean, if we are one, big community, then do we really need to offer our supports in a separate realm?

Probably not.

I also know it is true that the biggest, most powerful journey of the coming out process in the realization and answering to oneself. We do need to sit long, hard, and deeply at ourselves to truly become who we are meant to be, no matter what anyone else says.

But for those just beginning on the journey, either in terms of age or coming out process, is it fair to assume that they should just "get that" right away?

I guess I anticipated needing to offer that support, number one because I am a giver by nature and by trade, but also, because I feel like that is why many of us are here, to offer support to one another.

Isn't it?

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by Dash

Steppin' in for friendship maintenance... Take a look again at what David wrote. He was providing some suggestions about the situation. He acknowledged beforehand that the last suggestion can be taken badly...

Now...the thing that is upsetting is both subtle and yet cuts deeply...

You kinda took his own words and used them against him. He addressed the situation...you addressed him. Make sense?

Yes, it does. It was not my intention to attack you, David. I repeat my apologies for hurting you.

[dsdrane]

Reality check: I'm fine. This ain't my first time at the rodeo, and reports of my emotional demise are wildly exaggerated.

No one person is going to cause me to refocus my current energies; a number of people, however can...and have. For whatever reason, my patience level has plummeted recently and, as some of you have no doubt noticed, I've become Mr. Grumpy Guy. This doesn't sit well with me, so I'm just going to chill for a bit. No dramatic turning on my heels and sweeping from the room...just chilling off on the sidelines "for a season".

That said, I'll throw out one last thought that I believe is germane to this thread. As u-dog mentioned, any community worth its salt nurtures and educates (or words to that effect). Ideally, everyone in a community participates in this in some way at some level; however, we also know that communities have special people -- teachers, clergy, coaches, etc. -- for whom nurturing is their main focus. Why? Because we all have areas of expertise and a community also needs police, health care workers, reporters, poets, and even an architect or two.

Marx said: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

To me that means: nurturers, go nuts. Nurture like the wind, and we'll all do our best to support you in whatever way we do that best. Just remember, please, that this Community/Forum is more than a classroom, and that people are here for many reasons (good and bad), have different abilities and different needs.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Reality check: I'm fine. This ain't my first time at the rodeo, and reports of my emotional demise are wildly exaggerated.

No one person is going to cause me to refocus my current energies; a number of people, however can...and have. For whatever reason, my patience level has plummeted recently and, as some of you have no doubt noticed, I've become Mr. Grumpy Guy. This doesn't sit well with me, so I'm just going to chill for a bit. No dramatic turning on my heels and sweeping from the room...just chilling off on the sidelines "for a season".

That said, I'll throw out one last thought that I believe is germane to this thread. As u-dog mentioned, any community worth its salt nurtures and educates (or words to that effect). Ideally, everyone in a community participates in this in some way at some level; however, we also know that communities have special people -- teachers, clergy, coaches, etc. -- for whom nurturing is their main focus. Why? Because we all have areas of expertise and a community also needs police, health care workers, reporters, poets, and even an architect or two.

Marx said: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

To me that means: nurturers, go nuts. Nurture like the wind, and we'll all do our best to support you in whatever way we do that best. Just remember, please, that this Community/Forum is more than a classroom, and that people are here for many reasons (good and bad), have different abilities and different needs.

Well said!