The Adulterous "Sin" of Remarriage

[Emproph]

More tales from the front line. There are too many facets to this to make one comprehensive first post so I’m going to add to it as I see fit. As always, feel free to share.

Instead of linking to each Bible verse I offer www.biblegateway.com. It’s a comprehensive resource. You can look up pretty much any portion of Scripture using any one of 20 English Bible translations. They have many other languages, a search feature, footnotes, etc. Very convenient.

I offer this information as a tool to be used for the sake of more easily determining hypocrisy in regard to any supposed “Biblical stance" on homosexuality.

Remarriage = Adultery, which carries the same Biblical penalty as homosexuality – in both Testaments.

If their beliefs about divorce and remarriage (adultery) are not Biblically based, then neither are their beliefs about homosexuality. Most of them avoid this like the plague, those that don’t, get creative.

~~

5 Scriptures:

Note: As far as I can tell, divorce that is the result of spousal adultery is the only Biblical exemption that allows for remarriage.

Matthew 5:31-32
31 It has been said, Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.

Mark 10: 11-12
11 He answered, Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.

luke 16:18
18 Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

~~

I got these from the website below, but copied them from BibleGateway to make sure they were legit. They list some interesting footnotes if you’re interested.

http://www.ph.unimelb.edu.au/~jlc/stuff2.html

[Emproph]

Now remember, except for Corinthians, all those passages above are direct quotes from Jesus God Himself, Biblically speaking anyway.

The argument often goes that it doesn’t matter that Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality, the entire Bible is the word of God. Which it is, along with the rest of Creation. Jesus Christ being the ideal exemplification of it. The Bible being man’s documentation of that exemplification. God spake us into being, the air we breath is the Word of God.

Anyway, with Jesus we have a new covenant with God, the Old Testament rules to stone adulterers, homosexuals, disobedient children etc., no longer applies. But again, as the argument goes, since the New Testament also condemns homosexuality through Paul in Corinthians and Romans, then that-part-of the Old Testament still applies. Paul is their saving grace when it comes to their license to hate homosexuals. I've even heard them referred to as "Paulians."

The problem is that in all the places homosexuality is condemned, so is adultery.

~~

These are just some of the responses I’ve gotten when confronting people on their “Biblical” stance on homosexuality and not in regard to my support of gay anything.

Re UMC position – “divorce does not preclude a new marriage.”

~Your reason for accepting gay marriage is based on the acceptance and continuance of sin. That is not physically and spiritually healthy.

~We lost the battle over divorce and now you claim because we lost that battle that we should just go ahead and cave on the homosexuality battle.

I’ve also gotten the explanation that the adultery of remarriage is acceptable because “They aren’t forcing their beliefs onto society.” Ergo “man’s law” trumps God’s law because it’s ALREADY legal! Obviously not heavy thinkers when it comes to the words coming out of their mouths. All the more perplexing when you consider that they had to type those words first and then look at them on the monitor before actually “saying” them. This is what I mean by "they get creative."

To be fair, I did find one typically anti-gay person who got a divorce who was resigned to never marrying again because of Scripture. She got my respect. But I hope it’s clear here that I am not against remarriage, nor do I think it’s a sin. I’m against hypocrisy and I think hypocrisy is a sin when it’s used to harm others, or even just when it results in harming others.

That said, what it really comes down to, at least the worst of it, is that those who claim their beliefs are Biblically based believe in an eternal hell. Thus ultimately, they “hate the sin and love the sinner” in order to save them from hell. Now set that ‘load’ aside for a moment.

If gays are as low as “1-2 percent” of the population, and they are spending all their time and resources preventing we “sickos” from living out our “sick” fantasies of marriage, family, and a life free from persecution, then in the meantime they’re letting everyone who’s remarried literally go to hell... To burn in a lake of fire where the smoke of their torment shall rise up forever and ever and ever amen blah blah blah.. pfft, as though I’ve never been.. (mr reincarnation here . Do they think I was born ye...)

Newsflash: we’re in hell, our torment is that smoke. Well maybe more so the torment of the car bomb victim in Baghdad – wafting up to flavor the universe, and the Gods ask, “What’s that smell?” and where there’s smoke there’s fire. Trial by fire, here we are. The fear of the fire is the flame. It’s not a lake of fire, it’s a lake of fear...no fear, no fuel, no fire.

Point being, if “confused” lil’ ol’ homosexual me can figure all this out and they can’t, then in my not necessarily so humble opinion, they're certifiable. As in “certificate of divorced from reality” certifiable.

~~

I’m not mincing words next so be forewarned. I’m also sweepingly generalizing. This language is meant mostly for conceptual purposes and minimally for conversational. Actually I would argue that if you're going to accuse someone of hatred that it's either no longer a conversation, or you know them well enough to be civil about it.

Remarriage = outside of the only exception - cheating.

~If they’re anti-gay and remarried*, then it’s hatred.

~If they’re anti-gay and not remarried, but also not anti-remarriage, then it’s also hatred.

~If they’re anti-gay AND anti-remarriage, leave them alone, there are bigger fish to fry..(btw my guppy had babies and I finally figured out that ‘small fry’ refers to baby fish and not french fries...)

*Oh look, hell on Earth before eternal hell.. no wonder 70% of their anti-gay crowd are so (*gulp*) “loving.”
http://www.divorcerecovery101.com/kass81.html

After reading that article even I want to solve their divorce problem. Actually I think reading enough stories like that would solve the divorce problem.

~~

Some interesting statistics here. The numbers are disturbing to look at, EXCEPT for Massachusetts, in 1997 anyway - lowest divorce rate in the country. The highest was Nevada, which at first surprised me because I thought all those death row inmate marriages in Texas would be even less stable than the Vegas drive-thru kind. Then it hit me like a jolt of lightning, Focus on the Family is obviously suppressing those statistics to use against us... () Either way, sanctity shmanktity!

http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

[revtj]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010401910.html

In a queer kinda way, I hope this law gains enough support to show the str8 people who were indifferent to anti-gay marriage amendments just what WE feel like having our relationships nullified. Imagine having your heterosexual relationship decalred illegal and immoral by the state due to a divorce.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Emproph

It’s not a lake of fire, it’s a lake of fear...no fear, no fuel, no fire.

This is a very poetic and interesting statement. I like it a lot. It appeals to my musings about spirituality and psychology. Explains a lot.

And as revtj has noted, I hope that the proposed law in Virginia gets far enough to wake people up. That would be a good thing.

Odd to be bucking for this kind of thing.

[andrewlittle]

Sometimes, the only thing that allows change to happen is that pain becomes unbearable.

This amendment certainly has the potential to make many lives very painful.

[NathanATX]

Originally Posted by revtj

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010401910.html

In a queer kinda way, I hope this law gains enough support to show the str8 people who were indifferent to anti-gay marriage amendments just what WE feel like having our relationships nullified. Imagine having your heterosexual relationship decalred illegal and immoral by the state due to a divorce.

What would it take to introduce similar amendments?

I just had a brilliant idea... (maybe)

... and the Texas legislative session opened today...

[pnggrad79]

Hey Nate, I think whatever you're thinking is good. And just think, if Virginia makes divorce tougher, hmmm, how is this going fare with the VP's pregnant lesbian daughter and her lover? They just need to move to Maryland or New Jersey. Or maybe GET OFF THE FENCE AND BE REAL LESBIANS AND DON'T SUPPORT A PARTY THAT DEEMS YOUR RELATIONSHIP UNNATURAL AND WON'T LET YOU MARRY! Wow! I have been preaching a lot. sorry!

[Emproph]

Here's a new one.

Originally Posted by Time Magazine

As the article's author, the British Evangelical scholar David Instone-Brewer, points out, for most of 2,000 years Christians have viewed divorce through two scriptural citations. In Matthew, the pharisees ask Christ, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?" Jesus refers to the Old Testament and then replies, "Whoever divorces a wife, except for sexual indecency, commits adultery." The apostle Paul adds in the book First Corinthians that a Christian is "not bound" to a non-Christian spouse who abandons him. Simple, right?

Yes! OMG. So simple. Who would argue with God Jesus?

Instone-Brewer radically reinterprets the first passage using, of all things, quotation marks.

The Greek of the New Testament didn't always contain them, and scholars agree that sometimes they must be added in to make sense of it. Instone-Brewer, an expert in Jewish thought during Jesus's era, writes that Christ's interlocutors were not asking him whether there was any cause at all for divorce, but whether he supported something called "any-cause" divorce, a term a little bit like "no-fault" that allowed husbands to divorce wives for any reason at all.

Instone-Brewer claims Jesus's "no" was a response to this idea, and that his "except for sexual indecency" condition was not a statement of the sole exemption from God's blanket prohibition, but merely Christ's reiteration of one of several divorce permissions in the Old Testament — one he felt the "any-time" advocates had exaggerated. Finally, Instone-Brewer tallies four grounds for divorce he finds affirmed in both Old and New Testaments: adultery, emotional and sexual neglect, abandonment (by anyone) and abuse.

"Instone-Brewer's article did not... give people carte blanche on divorce." The mail eventually leveled off at 60% negative to 40% positive.

So technically that's only a 40% hypocrisy rating amongst the certain evangelicals who chose to respond to that article..

[ladyinred]

Since adultery is linked to divorce in the bible except in certain cases.. ( And since the word homosexual wasn't coined until the nineteenth century.....) And the bible has been translated and retranslated in the course of 2000 years. (you have to wonder whether there weren't a few passages slipped in there or translations that may have had something to do with a person's personal biases )This verse used to condemn "homosexuals" says this about adulters:" Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor*** adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders (Where did homsexual come from since the word wasn't coined until the nineteeth century by the way?)
10 nor thieves nor the **greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (Agreeing with Emproph's assertions.)

SO I guess the churches don't really want to touch on this issue since many of their congregants are divorced(And of course it would be extremely unpopular, might lose money when tithing and collection plates are passed around) But since they believe that the bible is the infallible word of God according to their views.. It seems they are in the same boat with "Homosexuals " whom they condemn.

I was watching Mel Whites video and he was talking about a woman who had been divorced and lived with someone, and how Jesus reached out to her and the other about the centurion. Were Pauls views necessarily Jesus's view. Did Jesus say that they would not ever inherit the kingdom of God or would go to hell for eternity ? Evidently he didn't.Wouldn't Jesus have shunned such people if he did think this way? Or have said things that would have been in the same spirit of Paul? The apostles didn't " get it" many times when Jesus spoke to them or did certain things and didn't always understand what he was doing or speaking

Plus at Nag Hammadi library there are the lost gospels and they don't necessarily correspond with the 4 canons or other scripture, these were surpressed and often burned and attributed to "heresy" They have fragments of the ones they found. Gotta wonder about this "infallible bible" thing.....Some history below along with some examples of the lost gospels:

[ladyinred]

Odes of Solomon- Ode 17: these had numbers before each verse ,like the bible but I couldn't copy the numbers for some reason:
Ode 17
Then I was crowned by my God, and my crown was living.
And I was justified by my Lord, for my salvation is incorruptible.
I have been freed from vanities, and am not condemned.
My chains were cut off by His hands, I received the face and likeness of a new person, and I walked in Him and was saved.
And the thought of truth led me, and I went after it and wandered not.
And all who saw me were amazed, and I seemed to them like a stranger.
And He who knew and exalted me, is the Most High in all His perfection.
And He glorified me by His kindness, and raised my understanding to the height of truth.
And from there He gave me the way of His steps, and I opened the doors which were closed.
And I shattered the bars of iron, for my own shackles had grown hot and melted before me.
And nothing appeared closed to me, because I was the opening of everything.
And I went towards all my bound ones in order to loose them; that I might not leave anyone bound or binding.
And I gave my knowledge generously, and my resurrection through my love.
And I sowed my fruits in hearts, and transformed them through myself.
Then they received my blessing and lived, and they were gathered to me and were saved;
Because they became my members, and I was their Head.
Glory to You, our Head, O Lord Messiah.
Hallelujah.

Ode 15
As the sun is the joy of them who seek its daybreak, so is my joy the Lord;
Because He is my Sun, and His rays have lifted me up; and His light has dismissed all darkness from my face.
Eyes I have obtained in Him, and have seen His holy day.
Ears I have acquired, and have heard His truth.
The thought of knowledge I have acquired, and have enjoyed delight fully through Him.
I repudiated the way of error, and went towards Him and received salvation from Him abundantly.
And according to His generosity He gave to me, and according to His excellent beauty He made me.
I put on immortality through His name, and took off corruption by His grace.
Death has been destroyed before my face, and Sheol has been vanquished by my word.
And eternal life has arisen in the Lord's land, and it has been declared to His faithful ones, and has been given without limit to all that trust in Him.
Hallelujah.

Ode 12
He has filled me with words of truth, that I may proclaim Him.
And like the flowing of waters, truth flows from my mouth, and my lips declare His fruits.
And He has caused His knowledge to abound in me, because the mouth of the Lord is the true Word, and the entrance of His light.
And the Most High has given Him to His generations, which are the interpreters of His beauty,
And the narrators of His glory,
And the confessors of His purpose,
And the preachers of His mind,
And the teachers of His works.
For the subtlety of the Word is inexpressible, and like His utterance so also is His swiftness and His acuteness, for limitless is His progression.
He never falls but remains standing, and one cannot comprehend His descent or His way.
For as His work is, so is His expectation, for He is the light and dawning of thought.
And by Him the generations spoke to one another, and those that were silent acquired speech.
And from Him came love and equality, and they spoke one to another that which was theirs.
And they were stimulated by the Word, and knew Him who made them, because they were in harmony.
For the mouth of the Most High spoke to them, and His exposition prospered through Him.
For the dwelling place of the Word is man, and His truth is love.
Blessed are they who by means of Him have perceived everything, and have known the Lord in His truth.
Hallelujah.

Ode 10
The Lord has directed my mouth by His Word, and has opened my heart by His Light.
And He has caused to dwell in me His immortal life, and permitted me to proclaim the fruit of His peace.
To convert the lives of those who desire to come to Him, and to lead those who are captive into freedom.
I took courage and became strong and captured the world, and the captivity became mine for the glory of the Most High, and of God my Father.
And the Gentiles who had been dispersed were gathered together, but I was not defiled by my love for them, because they had praised me in high places.
And the traces of light were set upon their heart, and they walked according to my life and were saved, and they became my people for ever and ever.
Hallelujah.

Ode 8:
As is the course of anger over wickedness, so is the course of joy over the Beloved; and brings in of its fruits unhindered.
My joy is the Lord and my course is towards Him, this path of mine is beautiful.
For there is a Helper for me, the Lord. He has generously shown Himself to me in His simplicity, because His kindness has diminished His dreadfulness.
He became like me, that I might receive Him. In form He was considered like me, that I might put Him on.
And I trembled not when I saw Him, because He was gracious to me.
Like my nature He became, that I might understand Him. And like my form, that I might not turn away from Him.
The Father of knowledge is the Word of knowledge.
He who created wisdom is wiser than His works.
And He who created me when yet I was not knew what I would do when I came into being.
On account of this He was gracious to me in His abundant grace, and allowed me to ask from Him and to benefit from His sacrifice.
For He it is who is incorrupt, the perfection of the worlds and their Father.
He has allowed Him to appear to them that are His own; in order that they may recognize Him that made them, and not suppose that they came of themselves.
For towards knowledge He has set His way, he has widened it and lengthened it and brought it to complete perfection.
And has set over it the traces of His light, and it proceeded from the beginning until the end.
For by Him He was served, and He was pleased by the Son.
And because of his salvation He will possess everything. And the Most High will be known by His holy ones:
To announce to those who have songs of the coming of the Lord, that they may go forth to meet Him and may sing to Him, with joy and with the harp of many tones.
The Seers shall go before Him, and they shall be seen before Him.
And they shall praise the Lord in His love, because He is near and does see.
And hatred shall be removed from the earth, and with jealousy it shall be drowned.
For ignorance was destroyed upon it, because the knowledge of the Lord arrived upon it.
Let the singers sing the grace of the Lord Most High, and let them bring their songs.
And let their heart be like the day, and their gentle voices like the majestic beauty of the Lord.
And let there not be anyone who breathes that is without knowledge or voice.
For He gave a mouth to His creation: to open the voice of the mouth towards Him, and to praise Him.
Confess His power and declare His grace.
Hallelujah.
http://www.gnosis.org/library/odes.htm These aren't in the bible for what reason?Again many of the lost scriptures were burned and suppressed as a form of heresy.

Irenaeus of Lyons determined that the bible should have 4 canons;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeu...ation_of_canon
Excerpted from URL on Irenaeus:According to some biblical scholars, the findings at Nag Hammadi have shown Irenaeus' description of Gnosticism to be largely inaccurate and polemic in nature.[2][3] Though correct in some details about the belief systems of various groups, Irenaeus's main purpose was to warn Christians against Gnosticism, rather than accurately describe those beliefs. He described Gnostic groups as sexual libertines, for example, when some of their own writings advocated chastity more strongly than did orthodox texts.[4][5] Gnostics had their own sects and diversities of belief.

*********** Also about the Odes of Solomon:The Odes date from the second century, and were probably written in Greek or Aramaic. At least one scholar has suggested they may have an origin in Valentinian Gnosticism, though this is of course speculative.

Ok why did I post this: Because there is a big contrast with the bible's idea of a God of retribution and instead these passages seem to speak of hope and redemption for mankind. Not fatalistic stuff, like hellfire and damnation