My first post

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by keltic63

our new member doesn't play well with others. u-dog had quoted her, but after I removed the original, offensive post, he deleted his that had the offensive quote.

move along folks, nothing to see here......

But oh....before we move on....may I point out that to this newest member that she is holding a living human being to a standard which she has no right to demand or enforce. Not only is her suggestion offensive, it displays an ignorance of the realities of being gay in a conservative environment. And as such, she also displays an appalling lack of compassion for Chuck.

Let her walk a mile in Chuck's shoes- and then go another 10 miles- before making assertions. Assertions, I should add, which only serve the ego of the speaker.

[chuck2pastor]

Originally Posted by u-dog

While there have been periods during which Polly and I stayed together mostly for the sake of the kids (which I don't think is NECESSARILY a bad reason to stay together) we are currently together because we choose to be for ourselves. We continue to work to deepen our relationship and to find ways to be authentically intimate with each other.

have you and your wife given up on your marriage at this point? Do you plan to separate when the girls leave home? Is your wife fundamentally homophobic? Where have the girls gotten this homophobic attitude?

Chuck, you don't need to answer any of these questions if you don't feel safe or ready.

Blessings,

U-dog

My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

My wife is aware of my attraction to men, but we don't discuss it; we're together for the sake of the kids, who are 16 and 18. I am not ready to tell my daughters that I'm gay, but when I am ready, I will certainly want to know how you and others handled the situation. They've become homophobic over the years, so I really don't know how they'll react. I'm just taking it one day at a time.
Peace,
Chuck

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

the combination of these statements is raising all kinds of red flags for me. Your wife knows of your attraction to men, but feels compelled to take every opportunity to make anti-gay, homophobic remarks. She does this knowing that you have those attractions. This sounds like abuse to me. It touched something in my memory about the way my (now ex) wife behaved in our relationship. It was only after I left the marriage that a counselor helped me see that regardless of my orientation, I was in a bad marriage. Don't allow your spouse to bully you. Should the marriage dissolve, she may use your guilt about your orientation to extort you and force you to give up much more than you should. Don't fall for the emotional blackmail, although, from what you've written, it seems to be happening already.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

Understood. In light of what Keltic points out, I think your last statement here is the crux of the matter.

It disturbs me too that your wife, however wonderful she is in other ways, would say exceedingly negative things about gay men *knowing* that you yourself are one. That strikes me as very hurtful. Perhaps the homophobia/gay bashing is such an old habit that she literally has not put 2 and 2 together. Or perhaps she is angry that you like men, and this is her way of expressing anger indirectly.
I couldn't know, just speculating. But the important matter is, as long as you two decide to remain together, you each have a right to have your fundamental human nature and your deep personal feelings treated with respect.

[chuck2pastor]

Originally Posted by keltic63

Your wife knows of your attraction to men, but feels compelled to take every opportunity to make anti-gay, homophobic remarks. She does this knowing that you have those attractions. This sounds like abuse to me. ...Should the marriage dissolve, she may use your guilt about your orientation to extort you and force you to give up much more than you should. Don't fall for the emotional blackmail, although, from what you've written, it seems to be happening already.

I want to thank you and others who have written telling me what I already knew, but didn't want to admit to myself, that my wife has been emotionally abusing me. I am in a bad marriage, one that I should leave. I'll need a good lawyer and good advice from other folks so that I don't fall prey to her abuse in the (rather likely) event of divorce.
I am so glad I found this forum.

Peace,
Chuck

[pnggrad79]

Chuck,
I don't know your situation or your wife. Therefore, it would be presumptive of me to prescribe what I think should happen with your marriage. This has to be your decision, because only you know the intimate details. I sense your incredible struggle here. I believe that you love your wife, and I also believe that it would cause a tremendous strain on your marriage should you come out with your attraction to men. I don't know if your wife thinks that it is a phase or a passing fancy you have and that she will ultimately win.
I was married to a man for 19 years and fell in love with a woman, but because of my fundamentalist upbringing I denied my attraction and deep feeling for this woman. For 12 years I ran away. It was miserable. I fought it like everything. I prayed, begged, pleaded for God to take it away from me. I was married and had two little girls for heaven's sake, I couldn't be a lesbian!!! Finally, after wrestling and fighting for years, I finally came out to God and He told me to stop struggling. There was nothing to struggle over.
For me, the only choice was to divorce and follow my heart. It was the only way I could be authentic to who I was and how God created me to be. For me, to stay in a marriage to a man when I was in love with a woman, was a complete lie and it wasn't fair to him or me. My daughters understood and chose to live with me and my now wife.(we got married in Canada in 2004)
I can tell you, from my perspective, it was the best move I ever made, not without its problems, but if I had to do it over again, I would, many times. In fact, I would have come out sooner than I did. I spent way too much time struggling with this, when I didn't need to.

Again, I don't know your situation. Only you can make any determination about what you should do. My prayers are with you and your family. Whatever decision you make, we will support you and pray for you.

[scott snedeker]

I allowed myself to be abused ritually in a relationship for 12 years. I call it my "abused martyr" stage. I was the "rescuer" in everything and for everybody, that is except for me. My spiritual evolution remained in this stage for a painfully long time. Leaving it was emancipatinng and disasterous but allowed me to discover joy once I let go of my safe haven.

You see, "abused martyr" was an incredble emotional relief from "abomination" My spirit soared with joy and pride with the transition from lonely and worthless to superhero who saved a crack addict from perishing. As a physician I "healed" everyone by sacrificing my life. My service was compensation for a personal sense of inadequacy. I was young and had the vitality to maintain such a chimerical construct.

Slowly I became aware of a sense of entitlement to joy without sacrifice. Internally these two spiritual stages conflicted creating rage within. The only resolution was to separate. Fortunate he sabotaged a trip to San Francisco with disappearing on a week long crack binge which was the smack in the teeth needed to activate my sense of entitlement and move his belongings out and find him an apartment.

I found the ability to be comfortable with myself and....surprise! I had more love encounters than I can remember. My life today is filled with love and beautiful people.

below are two links, one is a spiritual evolution that I went through. The other is a short story of a similar transformation.

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4513

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3925

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

I allowed myself to be abused ritually in a relationship for 12 years. t=3925[/url]

God, Scotty!

So glad you left that far behind!


***
Chuck - I PMed you some resources - hope that is okay!

[chuck2pastor]

Scotty, if I could give you a hug right now, I would. Thank you for sharing that with me and the whole group.
Because of the group's comments, I see that what I want and need is a separation/divorce from my wife, a conclusion I have resisted because I felt so selfish in wanting a life for myself, away from the emotional abuse she has given me. I have been wrestling with this for quite some time now, so this decision is not being made lightly or quickly and carrying it out will not be done lightly or quickly either. I will take my time and do the best by my wife that I can while keeping my own interests in mind as well. I dare say I will need a lot of help with this as time goes on. Thank you to all.
Peace,
Chuck

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

Scotty, if I could give you a hug right now, I would. Thank you for sharing that with me and the whole group.
Because of the group's comments, I see that what I want and need is a separation/divorce from my wife, a conclusion I have resisted because I felt so selfish in wanting a life for myself, away from the emotional abuse she has given me. I have been wrestling with this for quite some time now, so this decision is not being made lightly or quickly and carrying it out will not be done lightly or quickly either. I will take my time and do the best by my wife that I can while keeping my own interests in mind as well. I dare say I will need a lot of help with this as time goes on. Thank you to all.
Peace,
Chuck

Chuck,
This is a tough decision. My partner (now husband) of 25+ years was married to a woman for 15 years before we met. (When we met, he had already come out and had already separated from his wife.) He was able to divorce his wife on amicable terms and remain friends with her--they are friends to this day. I have found that many formerly heterosexually married gay men are able to accomplish this. I just hold that out as a hope for you.

Steven Webster

[Vanessa White]

The more I read of your current situation, the more grateful I am to God that you found us here- a safe haven for you, may I say, in the turmoil of your present life circumstances. Although I cannot identify on a personal level with your experience, as many others here can, I will offer my genuine support, as well as no judgment in how you need to proceed. That is what is so heartwarming about this place; we find what we need, even when we don't know that we need it, and it comes without judgment, even if it does come with firm guidance. If you pray on this yourself, I am sure that God would let you know this is the right place to be. He has let me know more than a few times.......

Hang in there.......

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

In the United Methodist system, pastors are assigned churches by the bishop, so I had to move where I am now.

Peace,
Chuck

it sounds as though the separation has already happened! My wife and I had a similar separation; although we lived in the same house, we had separate lives.

Should you find yourself needing to separate from your wife, it's good to know you already have a place to stay.

[pnggrad79]

When I came out to myself, I literally couldn't sleep with my then husband. It turned my stomach to think about it and I had been married to him for 19 years. I chose to sleep on the couch or in the guest room. Once I made the turn, separation was easy. It felt good to be free of the inner turmoil and angst. I realized I didn't love him, and that was very liberating.

This separation, Chuck, will give you time to think and get a perspective on this that maybe living with your wife on a daily basis might not let you have. Pray, seek God's guidance on this, and above take care of yourself and don't let yourself get caught up in a negative mindset. Do what makes you happy. Set yourself free.

[WesQGA]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out. I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now. In my area, there is a group called Grace for All which is working for the full inclusion of GLBT persons in the life of the church; while the members are mostly UM, the group is ecumenical in nature.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

Grace and Peace to you Chuck

Greetings brother from Atlanta, GA. I am glad that you sent this post. I once wanted to be a Pastor myself but due to being gay and coming out at a young age, it became not an option for me.

But, I am here for you brother if you need to talk. We all are!

Big hugs from a little brother,

Wes

[NathanATX]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

In the United Methodist system, pastors are assigned churches by the bishop, so I had to move where I am now.

Peace,
Chuck

Chuck,
I think it would be wise of you to speak to people who have similar background, ministry & family commitments. www.mccchurch.org is the main website for Metropolitan Community Churches denomination. See if you can find a pastor or regional elder that can, if nothing else, give you a supportive shoulder as you make this journey.

peace,
Nate
(future MCC and/or UCC and/or Unity and/or Unitarian clergy)

[chuck2pastor]

This past November I contacted the local MCC and was able to talk to their pastor. Of course local is about 20 miles from where I live, which isn't too bad of a distance to go for such support. He invited me to participate in as many of his church's activities as I would like and be able to. I really appreciated his kindness to me.



I always thought I would make my marriage work for a lifetime, but I just can't do it. I just can't.

Chuck

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

This past November I contacted the local MCC and was able to talk to their pastor. Of course local is about 20 miles from where I live, which isn't too bad of a distance to go for such support. He invited me to participate in as many of his church's activities as I would like and be able to. I really appreciated his kindness to me.



I always thought I would make my marriage work for a lifetime, but I just can't do it. I just can't.

Chuck

I know that feeling Chuck. I had the best intentions of being married for life. and when the marriage didn't cure my attraction to men, I just figured I'd have to stay married and endure it. I figured that all the hype about how wonderful a good marriage/relationship can be was just over-rated. I figured everyone else was as miserable as I was. Boy, was I wrong! I was with the wrong person and with someone of the wrong sex. Now that I got that corrected, I can't believe what I'd denied myself all those years!

[chuck2pastor]

I have a lot of questions and fears concerning my daughters as I contemplate separating from their mother. Those are separate from those concerns I have about coming out to them. I know that both of those will be difficult for them, and since I can anticipate their pain, I can choose to keep the status quo or plan how to minimize rather than maximize their pain.
Any ideas?
Chuck

[pnggrad79]

Chuck,
I have 2 daughters and as painful as it was, I came out to them the night before my partner and I flew to Canada to get married. My oldest was 16 and youngest was 13. The oldest said she had as much figured it out, but the youngest was the toughest nut to crack. She didn't understand and I spent a lot of time with her talking and listening to how she felt. Now, she is one of my biggest supporters. The oldest is, too. The oldest writes pro gay marriage papers in her English class at college. The youngest one outs herself to her bf's and tells them if they have a problem with her moms, they need to move on. I am a very proud mom of two beautiful girls, but it wasn't easy coming out to them.

You need to be honest with them and tell them, listen to them and show them that your being gay in no way diminishes your love for them. Allow them to soak up the revelation and process it how they will, and be there the whole time loving them through it. Remember as tough as it was for you to come out, it will be that tough for them to reconcile themselves with it. Seek family counseling as well, someone who is gay friendly who can help them through it.

[chuck2pastor]

I just got done talkikng to my wife. She is still angry and hurt and told me in an accusing tone that I'm not going to do anything about it. I couldn't say anything to her because I know that I'm not going to try to move from my current appointment.

After our conversation, I just ache. I am under a great strain, knowing that I want to end the marriage, but not ready to do so. I need your prayers and I need the guidance of the Holy Spirit in a big way.

Chuck