I am just TOO gay......

[Vanessa White]

There are days, most days, when it is of no bother to me that those that are members of the LGBT community, that I know, but are themselves pretty closeted, act in an ignorant manner toward me. Today was one of those days when it just totally bugged me.

My family was shopping at our local Target today, which was of course packed with last minute Easter shoppers. It is a full fledged guarantee that we always seem to run into at least one person that I know when we are out together, and today was no exception. We ran into a couple of women, women who I believe strongly are a couple, who I knew through my last job. When I left that job, one of them wrote me a very friendly email, told me their home number and email address, and to call/email sometime so that we could get together. Well, I finally sent off an email about a month or so ago, never heard from them, so when I saw them today, thought I would go right up and say hello. They could barely manage to talk with me, appeared immediately uncomfortable, and seemed as if they could not wait for me to walk away, which I did quickly because I felt embarassed at their ignorance toward me. Afterward, I felt angry; angry and frustrated that they treated me in that way; of course, I don't know the real reason, I will never know. But, it seemed very familiar to treatment that I have gotten on a few occasions from those that know me, some of them well, when they seem like they don't want to associate with me when others are around.

Please, I needed to vent here, where I feel safe and secure. I mean no offense to those of you here that are not yet comfortable with your sexual identity, and are trying to find your voice. When things like this happen to me, I feel more frustrated than I do when strangers disregard who I am. I feel like that is easier to combat than when someone that knows you ignores who you are.

It just sucks..........

[Zerbie]

I am sorry.


Their behavior sounds baffling, perhaps even a bit mystifying. They offered you their contact info so you could get together, then acted like they didn't want to be around you when you happened to cross paths. ? Yeah, I'd say that's a bit mystifying.

Does your intuition say maybe they are spooked at being associated with you because your activism maybe pushes some buttons, perhaps intimidates them a little bit? But seriously, to be nervous talking to you at Target??!! If the gay association thing is what it's really about, I feel sad for them - wish we could give them a big sustaining SF hug, b/c if you're right, then they are two very scared women. They probably desperately need a friend like you, yet they're so scared they push you away.

Personally, I have never noticed anyone acting this particular way around me, but I did, in my early days of activist-ing, note that some of the most strong expressions of discouragement, as well as sometimes the most personally hurtful, came from gay people. I had a few gay men who, when they learned I was involved in LGBT activism, took me aside behind closed doors to whisper ominous warnings about how scary and dangerous it all is.
At first I used to take it to heart and get really spooked, confused, and upset. Eventually I learned to see it as a reflection of the psychic 'space' inside their minds. So I take it as an opportunity to share my conviction, smile and talk about accomplishments I've seen made over the years, and try to inject some more positive 'vibes' into the conversation. Not sure how possible that is in your case if these people aren't even MENTIONING what's bugging them!

I think you may have to wait and let them either bring it up themselves, or just let it pass with a shrug of the shoulders. Too bad, but it's their fear, and they are the ones who have to live with it. (All this is assuming your intuition is correct about what's going on, which seems likely. But gee, they aren't giving you anything to go on, are they?)

[Daniel]

And that is what your 'friends' did. Trying to hide in plain sight.

My dear Vanessa, your love and warmth was not wasted, only not accepted. And the loss is not your own, but theirs. That said, I understand your anger and dissapointment. It's no fun being rejected.

Yove have their email right? How about sending them a note? A loving note with a mention of the ineraction that ensued- giving them room to be out to you and themselves?

And if they don't, or can't respond- well- that's that- until the gates of heaven open for them- on another day- in another place and time.

All you can do is offer.

You are not too out girlfriend: you are love itself.

[paul]

Hi Vanessa,

This could be totally out there, but, as you say, "you don't know the real reason" for their treatment. So what we are doing here is speculating. I agree with Daniel, I'd make use of that email address and say how you felt and ask what's up? That's just me, though.

My other thought went to intrigue. I noticed that it wasn't both of the women who gave you the contact info, just one of them. I'm wondering if the awkwardness you felt was because of that? Could be some jealousy at work, well, lots of things. Bottom line is, you won't know unless you ask. Your feelings may be projection or 100% correct.

[Vanessa White]

It is totally accurate, that I don't know the reason for the slight; and it wasn't even that I was that close to either of these women; but the invite had been present to keep in contact AND get together; just weird. And, with my new comfort level with being more out and active, it is ever present in my mind about potential reaction from those that are not so out; my own partner fluctuates between comfort and secrecy, which is an issue we dialogue about pretty frequently.

I like the suggestion of an email to followup; I am not sure what the result will be but at least I will feel a bit of closure about it. I am very sure that there is a lesson in the situation for me, and maybe even for them, somewhere. I have to remember that people come into my lives for a reason or a season, as Jen's post says on the How long have you been here thread, but that I also come into their lives for a reason or a season; and it really is not for me to figure out why I am in their lives, just why they are in mine.

I feel refreshed today; thank you so much for the support friends.

[BlueGirl]

Hi Vanessa,
What a strange occurrence. It reminds me of something that happened to me a few years ago so I hope you won't mind me sharing my experience with you. It has always bugged me whenever I think about what happened because I was never able to figure it out and I have a thing about mysteries .
It involved a certain woman I’ve known since I was in grade school, who used to live a couple of blocks from me at that time, in the 1950’s. I never knew her personally but I knew who she was and I used to see her drive past my house in her 1950 or ’51 Ford when I was in my teens (she’s a few years older than I am). I also knew her younger sister from grade school. After that, I didn’t see anything of her for a lot of years but I heard somewhere along the line (I don’t remember when or from who) that she is gay, which didn’t surprise me. When I was in grade school there was a certain girl in my class, a grade ahead of me (there were two grades in one class) that I had a serious crush on. I never told her but I don’t think I exactly hid it either. I was scared to tell her and I don’t think it would have made any difference if I had because she didn’t seem to be interested in me and,to the best of my knowledge, is not gay. The girl that I had a crush on lived about a block up the street from the older one with the Ford. I remember someone telling me that one time they saw the two of them sitting and kissing on the porch of the one that I had a crush on. I can believe that. That’s just my stinkin’ luck.
But, now, to get back to more recent years. One time when June, my closest friend/family, and I were at the mall, I saw her (the older one who had the Ford). She was a good distance away from us but she saw us too and threw up her hand and smiled. I figure she’d probably heard somewhere along the way too that I am gay. Since a lot of people know I am and, this being a small town, it’s highly possible. That little thing made me feel very good. The woman is no one I’d ever be interested in romantically but it’s nice to see friendly “family”. A couple of years or so later, I saw her at my aunt’s funeral. I was surprised to see her there but they had all lived on the same block and knew each other pretty well when she lived with her parents. She came up to me and started talking. During the course of the conversation, she told me that there was going to be a “tea” at the senior center for anyone who had gone to the grade school we had gone to and when it was going to be.
I was so glad that she told me and I was really looking forward to it. As it turned out, it had to be postponed to a later date due to bad weather. I am very lonely and isolated (that’s how I ended up at this site) and would just LOVE to meet some nice people, especially nice gay people, that I could be with sometimes for company and good conversation. So after talking with her that day, I thought maybe she might be a possible friend (friendship was all I was thinking) so I wrote her, what I considered to be, a nice friendly note. That’s been a few years ago now, and my memory being what it is, I can’t remember all that I said. Of course, I said that it was nice seeing her at my aunt’s funeral and mentioned that I was looking forward to the school tea. I told her that I remembered when I used to see her go by the house in her ‘50’s car. I always liked those cars (I’d love to have one even though I don’t drive) and I love the ‘50’s. That time and things associated with it are very special to me. I said that I was looking for friends and told her some of the things I’m interested in and that if she was interested in being friends (or something to that effect) to call me sometime.
I looked in the phone book to see if an address was listed for her since she didn’t live where she used to, and I found a listing that I was pretty sure was hers, and sent the note to that address. I didn’t hear a word back. The tea was postponed to a later date, which I attended at that time. I saw her there but instead of being spoken to and asked if I wanted to sit at her table, as I thought would happen, she totally ignored me as if she didn’t know me from Adam. I was floored! I had kept a copy of the note on my computer (I wish I still had it) and I read it over and over but I couldn’t find anything in it that anyone, gay or heterosexual, could take offense at or take as meaning anything other than friendship. If she’s not interested in the same things I am and thought I was goofy because I like old movies and ‘50’s stuff or just didn’t want to be friends with me, that’s one thing, but it’s certainly not a reason to act like she didn’t even know me, especially since she had been friendly to me before and even told me about the tea. I wouldn’t have known about it if she hadn’t told me. I don’t think that anyone who doesn’t know me or hasn’t heard that I’m gay would suspect. So the only reason I can think of that makes any sense to me is that she was afraid to be seen with me because someone who does know me and who had heard I’m gay might see her with me and think she is too. But then why did she even tell me about the tea? And, as I said, I heard a long time ago that she is and she “looks more gay” than I do. What ever the reason, it certainly did hurt and destroyed my “air castles” concerning the possibility of making a friend. As the song says, “Alone again, naturally”. It seems that every time something gets my hopes up, something else knocks it to pieces, every time.

After that incident, I saw her again a couple of years ago. I was helping some Historical Society people that were getting information off of the tombstones when she happened to show up there. She was no more than 15 or 20 feet away from me and definitely saw me but didn’t speak to me. I don’t think she even said anything when the women I was there with, who evidently knew her, introduced us, but I spoke up and said that I knew her. That was the end of that and I haven’t seen her since.

As for your situation, if it was me, I think I would email them and ask what gives. Just like the way the woman treated me, I think that’s a dirty way to do someone and that both you and I, having done nothing against them, are at least owed an explanation. If I had an email address for the woman I told you about, I think that’s what I’d do.

Thanks for reading all this prittle prattle. I do like to reminisce. But after something my mother said the other day when we had a big blow-up, I wonder now if I’m just talking to myself when I say things. She’s rarely interested in anything I have to say and often just tunes me out or reads something when I’m trying to talk to her. She even implied that no one else listens to me either. That really hurt too. . I've known for some time that she wasn't interested in most things, if any, that I am and what I have to say but I didn't think that everyone else feels that way about me too. But ever since she said what she did, I’ve been wondering if maybe she was right.

[BlueGirl]

Hi again Vanessa,
I hope you didn't mind that long post I just sent. I just can't seem to say what I need to say in just a few sentences.

BlueGirl

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by BlueGirl

But after something my mother said the other day when we had a big blow-up, She even implied that no one else listens to me either. \

I didn't think that everyone else feels that way about me too. But ever since she said what she did, I’ve been wondering if maybe she was right.

The acquaintance who didn't answer your note is just one person. I wouldn't take any of this to mean "everyone" feels the same way. It's hard to see things neutrally if you grew up with your mother invalidating your thoughts and feelings, and spent a lifetime hearing those kinds of things said to you.

You seem like a very nice sociable person who is a bit isolated and lonely right now. Too bad about the lady with old 50s car. Sometimes people just do things. It happens to everyone; happened to me plenty of times.

I say, let 'em go their way. Kinda sad, I know.

[BlueGirl]

Thanks Zerbie. I appreciate the support.

My mother and I use to be close, at least I thought so. She never use to treat me with the attitude that she does now. A woman at church that I tried to talk to (she's one that I know isn't interested in talking with me about much of anything and doesn't want to hear me say anything against my mother) said maybe she has dementia. I think maybe she does but that wouldn't explain all of her nasty attitude towards me. She doesn't talk to anyone else that way. She wouldn't dare talk to my sister like that. She's told me more than once during my lifetime that you find out what someone is really like "when they're put to the test". I firmly believe that and I think that's a big part of why she acts like she does. Getting old put her to the test. She's very angry because she's gotten old and I think she uses me to take it out on. The way she is now certainly isn't the way I thought she was, but then I hadn't lived under the same roof with her for a lot of years and didn't have to deal with her in everyday situations lile I do now. I believe that's the only way to know what someone is REALLY like.

[pnggrad79]

Vanessa,
You may be too gay, but too gay is not a bad thing. It is proud of who and what you are. There is nothing wrong with that. Those people are the ones with the problem not you. You are a brave, strong person and there are people who would be honored to be seen with you, be friends with you and love you for who you are.

[Vanessa White]

Bluegirl: Please don't feel the need to apologize for long posts; I am glad that you feel comfortable to share a common experience with me and it helps all of us to hear other stories. I do feel badly for you in your isolation right now; for what it's worth, I have been there at times in my life and in between the loneliness of it, have tried to seize it as an opportunity to discover something about myself: What is the lesson here? is what I will ask myself. It makes the isolation a bit more bearable.

As far as your mom is concerned, my maternal grandmother died a few years ago, and had had Altzeimer's for several years. She was very mean at times, mostly to my mom. So, it could be part of it affiliated with some type of dementia; growing old for some people brings up issues that they have never dealt with, and they at times lash out. I am sorry to hear about the heartache it is causing you.

PNG, thank you so much for your support and kind words. This is probably true: "You may be too gay, but too gay is not a bad thing."

I embrace that most of the time, with my signs of pride and speaking out and even fulfilling the stereotype of short hair!!! That day it caught me off guard and really bugged me. SO, I will be sending off an email to them both; I could not find the words for it yesterday, so will try today.

[Vanessa White]

Hi E and T: I may never hear from either of you, or even run into you again for that matter. But, just wanted to bring something to your attention that doesn’t feel right to let go by.

I felt kind of excited and happy to see the two of you at Target last weekend; it seemed like a positive experience since we had been on good terms in the past. But, something about it seemed uncomfortable. I don’t know if it was because you had gotten an email from me and not expected to; not sure if there were other issues going on for either or both of you. But, I wanted to say hi, and after doing so, was very embarrassed because it didn’t seem like either one of you wanted to talk to me, let alone acknowledge me in a public place. Thing is, I had my family with me: my partner and my daughter, that I wanted to introduce you to, and was glad that I didn’t when I got such a cool reception. It felt weird.

The truth is, I am as out as a person can be as a lesbian, I am proud of who I am, and I love my family. I also enjoy running into old coworkers and friends, and was looking forward to making some plans, at Tara’s invitation from months ago. Again, I don’t want to suppose that I know why what happened did; maybe it only seemed like a problem to me. But, if it has anything to do with who I am, who I love, and who I am proud to be, then I am sorry that you were uncomfortable with that.

I wish you both the best, always. Take good care of yourselves and one another. Vanessa

[Vanessa White]

And I NEVER saw that coming. I actually got the email in my account the same day that I sent it, later that evening. Let me post it for you:


Hi Vanessa,

We are sorry that you felt uncomfortable....we were both excited to see you and catch up but the meeting did feel a little strange. We enjoy catching up with old co-workers and friends also, and were sorry that the passing was weird. It has nothing to do with who you are, who you love or who you are proud to be, if anything those are qualities that we like about you. Honestly it seemed as though you were just passing through and wanted to say hello, which was ok too.

We would never want to make anyone feel uncomfortable around either of us and appologize if you felt that way.

Sincerely,

E and T

So, even if I was right about the reception, or lack thereof, and the reason for the discomfort on their part, at least it was acknowledged and I feel quite relieved at that. Relieved that the discomfort was not just my own, but also that it was important enough for them to respond.

[BlueGirl]

I'm glad you heard from them and everything is ok. It still seems strange to me but that's just my feeling about it. Anyway, I'm glad it's ok now.

Take care
BlueGirl

[antiochian]

If I saw you in Target, I'd walk right up to you, have a jovial conversation, and I'd try to outflame you.

[Vanessa White]

I bet you would. I look forward to that......

[BlueGirl]

Hello,
Just wanted to again say thanks for your responses to me and to let you know that I've thought it over and decided to take your advice and stay here, at least for now. I very much need to have other people to talk with and I do enjoy reading some of the posts and responding to some of them.
After I'd said I was going to leave, I read a few more of the posts in some of the other forums and saw where some others had said some things that could be considered violent too. So I figured that if they could say those things and stay in the group that I guess I can too.

Have a good one.
BlueGirl

[Vanessa White]

Bluegirl: I agree that no one, unless they are actively choosing to do so, should be isolated from others if they have a need for community and connection. There is opportunity for you to have that here.

In terms of violence, whether it be physical or verbal violence, I see myself as an evolution in terms of my journey toward nonviolence. And, that journey is fluid, it is not linear by any means. There is an ebb and flow to it, and for me, it is equally about being nonviolent toward others AND toward myself. When I feel angry, resentful, hostile toward others, I tend to absorb much of that anger, hostility, and resentment into my own being and it feels yucky, uncomfortable, tense.

I have embraced and learned that I deserve oh, so much more love than that!!!!!

[drewcaine]

Are you related to Mel White?
drewcaine

[Vanessa White]

Hey drew: Never been asked about a possible Mel connection; nope, not that I know of. Not related to Vanna White either; have had more than a few jokes stated to me about that......