Oklahoma State Legislator Sally Kern

[ladyinred]

And it is also some stretch of the imagination to believe that gay people are destroying marriages and families. When do people take responsibility for their own lives and relationships? What Jim and Buddy are doing three miles down the street affects the family life of Jenny and Bob? How do they affect their marriage and family life? So I guess because Jenny and Bob are having marital strife and other problems and difficulty holding their relationship together , it has to do with what Jim and Buddy are doing in their own bedroom? If you look at it that way it seems preposterous.It's like stubbing your toe on a rock and saying the "rock" did it. Sometimes I'm not great at putting things into words but I think you understand what I'm trying to say. Their logic basically is as flawed.."If those damned gays didn't want to get married we wouldn't have so many problems in our families and marriages, they are out to destroy us and marriage and society!!!!" I also feel it may be a projection of ones own problems and blame onto gay people,for something they may not be willing to see in their own lives,that they need to confront and face within themselves.That is not to condemn them, but making someone else the bad guy or scapegoat is never going to get to the root of the problem or resolve conflicts.

[Joe Brummer]

The following is an email I sent to the Victory Fund today. I have also posted this on my blog and myspace. It is my hope that this letter make its way around so the message gets out!

Dear Victory Fund,

Thank you to the Victory Fund for your work exposing the comments made by Oklahoma Representative Sally Kern. Her words were a stark and sad reminder how far we really have to go before we are seen as normal in the eyes of those living in the heartland of America. I thought the video and the show of disapproval were a great way of bringing her comments into the sunlight of justice where they can be seen as the damaging and hurtful call to arms that they are.

Sally Kern’s words filled me with sadness. To be compared to a terrorist because of who I love was and is painful. I remember watching planes fly into the sides of buildings, killing thousands of people on September 11, 2001. I remember wondering who would do such a thing. I wondered how I could ever find empathy for those people. I still struggle to do that, but need and wish to be compassionate and know I cannot truly be compassionate until I can find forgiveness when others do wrong against me. I refuse to be anything but loving, forgiving and stronger than those who hurt me. I believe it takes more strength to stand up in love than it does to lash out in retaliation.

To be compared with the same people who I saw flying planes into the side of a building is hurtful, but again I refuse to sink to the level and energy that produced such comments in the first place. I refuse to hate Sally Kern and I also refuse to wish anything but the best for her. I refuse to applaud those who sent her nasty messages or emails because I believe those things only serve to create more fear. They do us no good.

I do applaud the rallies and petitions that call for her removal. I applaud the nonviolent actions that respectfully and with dignity ask Ms. Kern to step down from her position. I felt confident we could rise above such hate when I saw that a group of GLBT folks wanted to meet with Ms. Kern. Nothing could be more powerful then knowing she has seen us in a true and real light.

I would hope that the next time the Victory Fund is in a position to bring such hurtful and inaccurate comments to the surface, that they urge the GLBT response to be nonviolent. It is sad we need to make such a call but it appears we do. Ms. Kern is no different than the Bull Connors, the Senator Bilbo’s or the Fred Phelps family, but our response must rise above the hate. The only true remedy for hate is love. The only force strong enough to defeat injustice is the power of unarmed and nonviolent truth. We as GLBT Americans must learn from the civil rights movements before us that no matter how much violence and hate they shoot at us we will let no man drag us so low as to make us hate them.

Sincerely,
Joe Brummer

[Daniel]

Well spoke.....well spoke....

Peace, love and joy to you Joe.

[Vanessa White]

Joe: You did write a beautiful letter here; I was so moved by the Victory Fund's creation of the Utube video, with various people holding signs; it really impacted me. It also got me curious and I checked out their website, and found it interesting.

[keltic63]

http://www.kfor.com/Global/category....0&nav=menu99_2

Sally Kern was on a Sunday morning debate show. I watched this earlier today, and I must say, it put me in a bad mood. The bias is apparent from the very beginning. sadly, the "openly gay" minister doesn't get much of a chance to speak thanks to the rude interruptions of Sally and another panel member. The minister does make a good point about Sally's opposition to certain groups organizing to take political action. Projection? Perhaps Sally is upset that the homosexuals are doing what the religious right has done for years.

[matthewspeed]

Paul,
Excellent idea. She would see us as real people, fighting for a legitimate cause - freedom. She would not see Soulforce as an information tool on how to "pick up" men in bathroom stalls. Sadly, many people are only exposed to news media on how gays are on a mission to have sex with any man they can find their hands on!

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by keltic63

http://www.kfor.com/Global/category....0&nav=menu99_2

Sally Kern was on a Sunday morning debate show. I watched this earlier today, and I must say, it put me in a bad mood. The bias is apparent from the very beginning. sadly, the "openly gay" minister doesn't get much of a chance to speak thanks to the rude interruptions of Sally and another panel member. The minister does make a good point about Sally's opposition to certain groups organizing to take political action. Projection? Perhaps Sally is upset that the homosexuals are doing what the religious right has done for years.

Yes, Sally is upset that there are open homosexuals in American politics, but she said that she has nothing against individual gay people, she says she loves them.

Apparently, that gay man Jesse, was not her son, as everybody thought he was.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by inca nitta

Yes, Sally is upset that there are open homosexuals in American politics, but she said that she has nothing against individual gay people, she says she loves them.

Apparently, that gay man Jesse, was not her son, as everybody thought he was.

the transcript of her original statements:

Full transcript of a speech by Sally Kern on the "gay agenda" with a backhanded slap at Islam

The homosexual agenda [Loud snap] is destroying this nation. OK? It's just a fact. [Volume increases] Not everybody's lifestyle is equal, just like not all religions are equal.
You know, the very fact that I'm talking to you like this here today, puts me in jeopardy. OK? Uh and I'm not anti, I'm not gay-bashing, but according to God's word that is not the right kind of lifestyle, it has deadly consequences for those people involved in it, they have more suicides, uh and they're more discouraged, there's more illness, their uh lifespans are shorter, you know?
It's, it's, it's not a lifestyle that is good for this nation.
'Matter of fact, studies show, that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades.
So it's the death knell of this country.
I honestly think it's the biggest threat even, that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat. OK?
Because what's happening now, they're going after er uh in schools - two year-olds!
You know why they're trying to get early childhood education? They want to get our young children into the government schools so they can indoctrinate them! I taught school for close to twenty years and we're not teaching facts and knowledge anymore folks, we're teaching indoctrination. OK?
And they're going after our young children, as young as two years of age, to try to teach them that the homosexual lifestyle is the acceptable lifestyle.
You know, gays are infiltrating city councils.
Do you know? Eureka Springs [Arkansas], anybody been there, for the [Great] Passion Play? [A "Creation Truth" production] OK, have you heard that the city council of Eureka Springs is now controlled by gays? OK?
There are some others. Uh, Pittsburgh, Pa.; Tacoma, Md.; Kensington, Md.; in Vermont, Oregon, West Palm Beach, Fla. and a lot of other places in Florida.
What's happening? And they are winning elections. One of the things I deal with in our legislature, I tried to introduce a bill last year, that would notify parents, uh schools had to let parents know what clubs their students were involved in.
And the reason I did that bill, primarily, was this, we had the Gay-Straight Alliance coming into our schools.
Kids are getting involved in these groups, their lives are being ruined, their parents don't know about it. So I introduced a bill that said you have to notify all clubs, and things. And one of my colleagues said, "Well, you know we don't have a gay problem in my community, so that's why I voted against that bill."
Well you know what? To me that is so dumb. If you've got cancer or something in your little toe, do you say, Well you know I’m just gonna forget about it, 'cause the rest of you's fine?
It spreads! OK?
And this, this stuff is deadly, and it's spreading and it will destroy uh our young people, it will destroy this nation.

which one of these statements is the one where she shows love for individual gay people?

[matthewspeed]

I listened to the Flashpoint interview. It's sad that the openly gay pastor was not given the same amount of time to share his points regarding scripture. Sally was allowed to spew her judgements and then talk about "love" for the gay community. I wish the moderator would have limited Sally's comments and allowed the pastor to explain his interpretation of the scriptures regarding homosexuality. It's amazing how right winged Christians will talk about Gods moral and civil laws and make distinguishes between the two, because it fits into their predjudices. If they see a particular practice in the Old Testament that does not fit into thier modern view, they throw that in the "moral" law code. She also made a comment on the scripture that "They will know us by our fruits." If Sally would open her mind to observe many gay christians, with out knowing their sexual orientation, she would see the fruitful lives of gay christans - their faithfulness to God, their love for the gospel, their love for the lost.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by matthewspeed

I listened to the Flashpoint interview. It's sad that the openly gay pastor was not given the same amount of time to share his points regarding scripture. Sally was allowed to spew her judgements and then talk about "love" for the gay community. I wish the moderator would have limited Sally's comments and allowed the pastor to explain his interpretation of the scriptures regarding homosexuality.

the host, Kevin Ogle says,

"good morning, and welcome to Flashpoint on this Easter morning, such an important morning for christians around the world as we celebrate the resurrection of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Which brings us to the question "what would Jesus think? What is he thinking about this controversy we have going on in Oklahoma right now?"

I seems to me that the host isn't even trying to appear to be objective. A minute or so later he introduces Scott Jones, an "openly gay pastor." He goes on to say that they are going to be talking about this "controversy that has reared its head."

It's amazing how right winged Christians will talk about Gods moral and civil laws and make distinguishes between the two, because it fits into their predjudices. If they see a particular practice in the Old Testament that does not fit into thier modern view, they throw that in the "moral" law code. She also made a comment on the scripture that "They will know us by our fruits." If Sally would open her mind to observe many gay christians, with out knowing their sexual orientation, she would see the fruitful lives of gay christans - their faithfulness to God, their love for the gospel, their love for the lost.

IF the fundies want to make the distinctions in those laws, it is incumbent on them to use scripture to define the guidelines. for example, if a particular verse is to be considered a "moral" law, then there must be a scripture that helps us determine that it is such, and not civil or ceremonial, otherwise humans assign them as such, at their own whim, or according to their own prejudice.


Not only did this host present as biased, he didn't even attempt to give the Pastor equal time. He allowed her to run all over this segment. Too bad Scott Jones wasn't a stronger speaker.

[NathanATX]

[tymejumper]

Ok, so after readng all the posts on Kern, I must say, I totally agree with Bluegirls original assesment of Kern.

It's time we started calling a spade a spade here. Even after phone calls, education and people talking to her, she still persists in preaching ignorance and misinformation about gay people. To me, that is the meaning of evil.

The road to hell is paved on gold bricks of good intent. She may be using the "I am stating my opinion" and "it's in the Bible" retoric, and "I only mean well" but in essence she is spreading hate, bigotry and prejudice. Refusing to open our minds and get educated so we can CONTINUE to spread hate is evil also. She is on the same page as Dobson in my book, they are hate filled people and they do not spread Gods word. God is love and She/He would be horrified at how people that claim they spead the word are using it to spread hate.

That's my opinion, and I'm stickin to it!

[rwfitch45]

I'm jumping in here, not to reply to any post specifically, but to see that the thread does not die. I have been following the stream of events since Mar 9, when it was first called to my attention. I have participated in reader forums of various newspapers and have tracked all the links possible to get a full understanding of what is going on. As disgusting as it may seem, reading some of the published views by the religious right helps to uncover their flawed thinking. I have just finished a book by (the Rev.) Dr. Ronnie W. Floyd(SBC): "The Gay Agenda: It's Dividing the Family, the Church, and a Nation" [ISBN: 0-89221-582-8 (c)2004]. I'm about a third through another gem - "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homoseuality" by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. (Pres. of NARTH) [ISBN: 0-8308-2379-4 (c)2002]. I mention these two in particular because they are recent and cite, mostly, recent research and events. They both have the underlying premise that if it says in KJV then that is how it is. Many LGBT have been so turned off by the outrageous assertions of the Right that they have abandoned the church altogether, but it is still vital that we listen caraefully to what they are saying in order for us to present an educated rebuttal to theirs.