My first post

[TigerXero]

Hearing that you made an outline for what to go over with your wife, I'm wondering how that conversation went if it has already happened, but I also thought that when you said you wouldn't 'blame' her for anything, I think you still need to make the point that she has INDEED contributed to what is happening by her constant barrage of verbal and psychological abuse, regardless of if she was aware of it or not. (This is something which should have been talked about, though.) Anyway... I'm only 19, but that's would have been a red flag for me. I realize it wasn't exactly practical for you to discuss such things in your relationship, though, as well, and I'm truly sorry for that. I just hope you're managing and doing well, that your daughters will either when you talk to them or later in the future come to understand and continue to love you unconditionally, and that your life before you will be a much more liberating and happy one where you are not suffering as you are now.

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

I have been ok today, thanks. I feel that this is indeed a safe place for me to express myself. I'm glad, surprised, but glad to know that straight people are here as well.

I have known since I was 14 that I was attracted to guys, but I thought I would one day begin to be attracted to women. It didn't happen. Sometimes I wish I had never been married, but then I would never have had my daughters either. One of my friends is someone who wanted to become a pastor but didn't because he was gay and therefore not allowed to be ordained. I, on the other hand, said to heck with their rules and got ordained anyway.

Peace,
Chuck

Welcome! You are not the only one who is gay and married with children. I came out about 5 years ago, while I was married to a man. My ex-husband was a TG man and not out, he knew that I was attracted to women when we married. I kept hoping that the urge would pass, that it was just a stage. I rushed to get married and have children. I had my daughter at 21 and around 24 I relized that 'feeling' was not going away. I accepted that I was gay around then. I was a good and faithful wife, oh how it about killed me. It killed me a bit more every day. I was so afraid and so terified that others would find out and I had a child by then, so in for a penny in for a pound right? I hid from myself for a few more years, having 2 more wonderful children. Sex was not always terrible, it felt good at times, but was not fufilling at all, just 'sex'. I finally had to approach my ex about me not being happy any longer.

I thought as a gay man, he would understand and be supportive. He used my being gay to try to force me to stay. He threatened me with taking custody of the kids away form me because even though we were both gay, I was out and he was not, so I could not prove that he was, but he could prove I was. He also outed me to all the neighbors and our friends, some of whom I was choosing not to be out to.

That was about 3 years ago. Since then, I have custody of my children. The courts know I am a lesbian mother. I have met the woman of my dreams and will be married to her in August, and I am fufiled and happier than I thought I could ever be.

Many of us have been where you are now. It is one of the most frightening things you will go through. Hang in there and you will be ok. Be true to yourself and you will find the strength to be you. Feel free to post for support and we will do our best to help.

Have you ever thought about trying to start a gay inclusive church/ministry? Maybe you could start small and get a following? I don't know how that works, but maybe God is telling you to preach to LGBT and break away from the mainstream.

Much Metta,
Rebekah

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by keltic63

It touched something in my memory about the way my (now ex) wife behaved in our relationship. It was only after I left the marriage that a counselor helped me see that regardless of my orientation, I was in a bad marriage.

That is exactly what happened to me. I held onto the fact we had kids, and I owed him for giving me those children, that i let him abuse the heck out of me. He tried to use my orientation in court and take my kids away. He threatenend to tell everyone, which he did so staying did not help that. He was an alcoholic and abusive, grabbing me after he drank and blaming it on the alcohol. He sold drugs(lovely info to find out about after you file!)He neglected the kids. On and on. Chuck, she sounds like an emotional abuser. They use words to hurt and control you. Try looking online for 'emotional abuser support groups" they do have them, I wa a member of one for awhile.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by tymejumper

That is exactly what happened to me. I held onto the fact we had kids, and I owed him for giving me those children, that i let him abuse the heck out of me. He tried to use my orientation in court and take my kids away. He threatenend to tell everyone, which he did so staying did not help that. He was an alcoholic and abusive, grabbing me after he drank and blaming it on the alcohol. He sold drugs(lovely info to find out about after you file!)He neglected the kids. On and on. Chuck, she sounds like an emotional abuser. They use words to hurt and control you. Try looking online for 'emotional abuser support groups" they do have them, I wa a member of one for awhile.

I just had a very frank conversation with my daughter, who is now 20. She was talking about the impending death of her grandfather ( my ex FIL is in bad shape ) and my daughter mentioned how her mother is handling it: emotionless. When I said that the whole family tends to be that way, my daughter said "Thank you! I just said that to my therapist. So you think that too? good, I'm not crazy" and she continued with comments about the way my ex treated me while we were married. You know, it was nice to have that recognition from my daughter, and it sparked even more conversation about expressing emotions, letting others know that you love them, and how it all comes back to you in good ways.

[paul]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

I have heard the above quoted many times. Although I have never preached on any GLBT issues (either pro or con), I have joined a group in my AC which advocates for the full inclusion of the GLBT community in the life of the church, including ordination. So I'm not exactly silent, even though the average person thinks of me as a straight friend of the gay community.

As I struggle with coming out to my family, I don't have the emotional wherewithal to deal with coming out professionally. I understand that my wife may indeed out me to my religious community and that I may well have to switch jobs rather quickly, but I need to move ahead without having all the answers in place. I pray that I am following God's leading and not simply my own desires. If I am doing God's will, then God will indeed lead me to whatever work God has for me.

Peace,
Chuck

First of all, I want to ditto what Andy said above, and Zerbie's response. Both were so eloquent that I should probably just agree and shut up.

The title to this thread is what got me Chuck. Yeah, I have heard that one too, it's almost cliche.' It is equally logical to say in some instances that speech=death, no? For instance, part of your struggle is that for you to speak out about being gay in your church would mean the "death" of your ministry as you know it. No one has the right to choose how you live or die, except Chuck.

I have known I am gay from an early age, but fought it like crazy (and 'failed') up until about two years ago. I went to bible school, wanted to be in ministry, but always felt unqualified unless I got tgt under control , sigh. And here I am. I was asked to pastor a church where I did a lot of teaching once, and turned it down for the same reasons. I already felt conflicted just by teaching there, because I knew if they knew, the jig would be up. When I did come out, all of my fears were realized.

I believe your life is a journey only you can make, but it is a journey, not a destination. There are no rules to follow as regards your coming out when and how and to whom. Those decisions are uniquely yours.

[chuck2pastor]

Originally Posted by keltic63

I just had a very frank conversation with my daughter, who is now 20. She was talking about the impending death of her grandfather ( my ex FIL is in bad shape ) and my daughter mentioned how her mother is handling it: emotionless. When I said that the whole family tends to be that way, my daughter said "Thank you! I just said that to my therapist. So you think that too? good, I'm not crazy" and she continued with comments about the way my ex treated me while we were married. You know, it was nice to have that recognition from my daughter, and it sparked even more conversation about expressing emotions, letting others know that you love them, and how it all comes back to you in good ways.

Thanks for sharing that.
While I made no effort to hide my tears when my mother died, I was reluctant to let my wife see me cry when my dad died. She had thought that I should no longer be grieving for my mom after about 3 months! I have kept many of my emotions bottled up, and many of my reactions to my wife's teasing have gone unexpressed, because, after all it was "just teasing." "Can't you take a joke?" was the way my wife put it on several occasions. So I just hurt on the inside, never letting my pain show. Sometimes, I cry alone, but I can't even bring myself to cry in front of my therapist, where I know it's safe, and I know he would understand. My marriage is dissolving, but I don't cry; I do, however, feel the pain of it, even though I know it's what I need to have happen.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

Thanks for sharing that.
While I made no effort to hide my tears when my mother died, I was reluctant to let my wife see me cry when my dad died. She had thought that I should no longer be grieving for my mom after about 3 months! I have kept many of my emotions bottled up, and many of my reactions to my wife's teasing have gone unexpressed, because, after all it was "just teasing." "Can't you take a joke?" was the way my wife put it on several occasions. So I just hurt on the inside, never letting my pain show. Sometimes, I cry alone, but I can't even bring myself to cry in front of my therapist, where I know it's safe, and I know he would understand. My marriage is dissolving, but I don't cry; I do, however, feel the pain of it, even though I know it's what I need to have happen.

I cry. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart Chuck. If you need to cry- and you clearly do, learning/letting to let yourself cry will be a HUGE step in owning your feelings- and getting on with things.

Even in relationship with my husband of long years- there have been times when I have been frustrated about something and let it fester and fester- and then- eventually- I cry: and everything changes after that. That's been my experience.

You said you couldn't yet let yourself express this emotion with your therapist- in that safe place. That may be the very place to let yourself go. Having another person 'hold' and 'honor' your very Self is so so so important.

And I bet- if you can find a man who will hold you when you cry (no sex involved!), so much the better. Having my guy be there for me when I fall apart is very healing. All those crazy fearful thought in my head get some perspective.

Know what they say in the East?

Tears are the beginning of wisdom.

[Zerbie]

Oh dear. Chuck, I'm willing to share openly that my reaction when you said your wife told you 3 months is too long to grieve for your deceased parent was: 'How dare she?' She does not get to, as U-dog said, 'set the kitchen timer' on your feelings. For that, she has no right.

Regards the 'teasing.' "Teasing" at a spouse's/partner's expense is commonly acknowledged as a form of verbal abuse. It can be a way of cutting someone's feelings and devaluing, belittling the person, disguised as a "joke," in which case, stating displeasure with the "joke" is then labeled as another form of character flaw on the part of the person being abused, "can't take a joke." If you look at some lists of emotionally abusive behavior types, you will find many of them have just this sort of behavior listed.

RE: crying. Crying, weeping, sobbing, is the body's way of beginning to process overwhelming grief, sorrow, pain, etc. That is why when we sob, we move from deep down in our lungs and gut - we are releasing not only from the mind, but from the body as well. It is a necessary healing gesture. If you need to let some stuff go, find or create a safe place in which to do so. Perhaps at home alone in a quiet corner, maybe even light a candle and play soothing music to help you to self-soothe later. Maybe, if you feel safe with your therapist, you can explore allowing the emotion to move when you're there with him.

This may be off your beaten path, but another idea I have for you, is that perhaps you might be in the 'right' kind of place to start a healing process that is physically based, such as yoga. Or bioenergetic release of some kind. Even dance can be very conducive to freeing pent up emotions. Your body is being affected by your emotions, and it is likely carrying a lot of heavy ones for you at this time. I tend to yoga, because linking deep mindful breaths with physical movement can facilitate a letting go of heavy emotions so that we are less burdened by them. This is one of my personal favorites, and it is great for beginners.

http://www.forrestyogastore.com/Ana-...ing+Spirit+DVD

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Oh dear. Chuck, I'm willing to share openly that my reaction when you said your wife told you 3 months is too long to grieve for your deceased parent

It takes up to 1 full year to complete the grief cycle. You have to move through pain and anger and abandonment issues.

To mock and laugh at a person for their pain is not only abuse, but it is immensely sad. I would wonder if your wife has boarderline personality disorder or narcisstic personality disorder from the things you are saying. She really would benefit from therapy herself. Never the less, obviously this relationship is not good nor affirming for you and you would do yourself a favor by getting out.

[chuck2pastor]

I am planning to come out to my wife and daughters in the near future, meaning before school is out, most likely early May. The idea scares me, but I know I will be better off in the long run if I do so sooner rather than later. I have to put some thought into what I might pursue as a career if my wife does what I have thought she'd never do by going to my DS and telling him. But I can't keep up the facade of a happy marriage anymore. Please, keep praying, and give me any words of wisdom you might have. (I'll decide for myself how wise they are for me.)

[keltic63]

Chuck,

YOU know your situation best. You seem to be in a good place concerning how and when and what you think could happen. You've got some idea that it won't go smoothly, and you've got alternative plans in mind. All of this is good. I think what we can offer you is our own experience, our support, and our love for you as you take these steps.

[Zerbie]

Best wishes, and may it go smoothly after all!

I am glad you are preparing for the possibility of some unpleasant stuff while this is new news, and I hope that things go better than that after all.

Take care of yourself, be as caring and kind to others as possible, but look out for your own needs and safety, and do what you must. Be well. Best wishes!

[antiochian]

A belated welcome to you! I can't advise as I've never been married and don't know what that's all about. I can tell you that coming out to family members is hard and rewarding at the same time. Best wishes, and may God soften the hearts of your family to hear what you have to say.

[glenze]

Hi Chuck

Just to say that the hardest person to come out to is yourself. You've already done that so you've already done the hardest part. Good luck and I hope things get better for you,

love, Glen

[Pablo Rafael]

Chuck,

I will keep you in my prayers. For me there have been two big hurdles to face in the coming out process. First was telling mom, who is the only close family I have. Second is coming out at work.

I guess I am fortunate that I don't have a wife and kids to deal with. My mom has not been supportive, but has been loving. I wish I had her support, but it has been hard for her as well. It takes a lot of courage to be authentic. You seem to have that courage.

My mom has been the one who has been pretty insistient that I remain in the closet. Rather than outing me at work, she is the one who has tried to get me to remain quiet. She doesn't understand what I want to accomplish by coming out.

I don't understand the mentality in the church. I know that people in the church already think I'm gay. There have been obvious comments. It seems OK for people to have a gay church worker; just not an openly gay church worker. That whole situation puzzles me. But I digress.

I also have fears for my career. I am figuring that my days as a Christian school teacher are coming to an end. It really is something that I need to do. I have to be myself. The coming out day is May 22, the end of school.

Here I am talking about ME paragraph after paragraph. (I am really not that self absorbed.) Though our situations are different, there are some similarities. Sometimes it helps to know that others are facing similar situations at the same time. I wish you God's blessings. He has everything in His hands.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[glenze]

Hi Pablo

Your story about how it's okay with people if everybody thinks you're gay just as long as you don't admit it, is pretty much the way a lot of Portuguese society behaves. I have two friends who are a couple, have been together for ages but still maintain the fiction that they're just friends for their respective families, even to the extent of having three sperate photo albums when they go on holiday - one for each of their families with only photos of one of them and a photo album for their gay friends showing them together. One of the fathers actually works as a hairdresser (not a barber - so he must know some gay people) but he still doesn't officially know. But of course both families do - it's just never acknowledged or talked about - it's all so dishonest.
Luckily my and José's family are not like that - my father and my brother came to our civil union ceremony - they were the witnesses - and afterwards my father said it was such a great shame my mother wasn't there (she died 4 years ago) but that she would have been proud and very happy. And on our return to Portugal when we told José's aunt (who is 89) she told me "Now you must always call me Aunt Edith as I have a new nephew!"
Like you I am a teacher. The organisation I work for has a strict anti-discrimination policy and all the gay people at work are out and proud. I'm not out to my students - but I don't lie either. If one were to ever ask me, I'd answer truthfully. I don't know what it's like to work in a situation where you have to hide who you are - it must be very difficult. I hope everything goes well for you - I'll say a prayer
all the best
Glen

[chuck2pastor]

In so many ways I am ready to come out to my wife and kids, but I am going to wait until I am more ready to deal with their reaction. I have a lot of work to do to prepare for that, especially in dealing with my own anger, which usually gets turned inward on myself.
Please keep praying for me.
Chuck

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by chuck2pastor

In so many ways I am ready to come out to my wife and kids, but I am going to wait until I am more ready to deal with their reaction. I have a lot of work to do to prepare for that, especially in dealing with my own anger, which usually gets turned inward on myself.
Please keep praying for me.
Chuck

(((( Chuck ))))


We care about you. Thanks for the update. Let us know if we can support you, be there to listen, etc.

[chuck2pastor]

It has been about a month since my last post because I have no real progress to report. I haven't had the conversation with my wife and kids that I need to have. This past weekend confirmed that I cannot stay with my wife, but I couldn't talk to her about that because of other issues we were confronting with our children.
I am sooooo frustrated with myself.
Chuck

[Zerbie]

I cannot recall if you are currently seeing a counselor. If not, why not seek one out and with his/her experienced guidance, set about creating an outline of issues that matter most and most need to be addressed in this relationship. Then s/he can guide you into what actions might be most appropriate towards getting your needs met.

Maybe frustration is not the best way to view things? Maybe your caution is warranted and you are doing all the right things? However, if you really are frustrated, then let that determine for you what you must do next. Set about deciding on a timeframe, and do that next right thing.

Best wishes for you and your family at this tough time.