This is weird, hello everyone

[truthseeker]

My name is Catherine. I found out about this community via a link on a 'traditional' Christian web site. Although I am not gay I have been in turmoil over this issue as most churches teach it is wrong/evil etc etc. That got me thinking how I would feel if one of my children or family were gay (actually I have two cousins who are gay). In my heart I do not view homosexuality as 'wrong' in the sense that many people (mainly fundamentalist Christians and muslims) view it (although I believe anal sex is not natural - sorry hope I haven't offended anyone) but as I have always been taught that God views it as an abomination, I was in a real quandry. Do I ignore my instincts and accept what the Bible 'says' or be true to my own conscience? I have just read the section 'What the Bible says' on this web site and I am daring to believe that maybe God is ok with this issue. I'm still not sure, but one thing I am sure of, I would never treat my children or anyone differently because of this. To be honest, I'm not even sure about the whole Christianity thing and struggle with my faith. I am living with my boyfriend so I really am sinning,or committing fornication as the Bible says. (I've asked him to marry me but he doesn't want to at the minute - he's an atheist). I'm not sure why I feel drawn to message this web site. But at the end of the day this is a life and death issue and if the churches have got this so wrong for so long, then it's mind blowing.......

[keltic63]

welcome Catherine. There's plenty in your post that I'm sure many of us will respond to. I hear your apprehension to say that we are sinning, while you are also sinning, so that's a good thing. The truth is that we all sin.

I'm intrigued that you declare this (homosexuality? anal sex? what?) a "life and death" issue, yet your sin (which you mentioned) doesn't seem to have as much importance. can you talk about that?

[truthseeker]

Hi Keltic63, thanks for your reply. Just to clarify my position, what I am doing (having sex with someone I am not married to) is worthy of damnation according to the Bible. I have been with my boyfriend for 5 years and want to marry him but he won't. I may have to force the issue quite soon now as it is bothering me that I am 'sinning' according to the Bible, (although I must add that, just as I don't see how homosexuality is wrong, I don't feel that what I am doing is wrong. I suppose it's hard to appreciate God's high standards). I've been reading a lot lately (Lee Stobel books, C S Lewis, the Bible) and I really want to believe in Jesus etc, but when I see the damage that religion causes or rather how man interprets beliefs so differently, it makes me wonder if I should just carry on living my life, doing the best I can, ( I try not to be a nasty person and I try to help people) because at the end of the day maybe everyone is wrong, I don't know. Can you see the kind of quandry I am in.

[HarmlessEccentric]

Welcome! It's good that you're questioning what you've been hearing, and I think you'll get to see a lot of different people's opinions here. The first thing people forget is that gay people are real people, and our lives aren't much different from straight people's lives. People who react with disgust at us are usually people who think way too much about our sex lives and not enough about our relationships and lives outside of bed. Sure, anal sex is gross. So are oral sex, vaginal sex, and deep kissing. All things that you don't want to picture your grandmother doing, or discuss at the dinner table... still fun stuff to do, though, in the privacy of your own home.

But straight people and gay people both have sex, they both have families, they both sometimes call in sick to work in winter when they just don't feel like going, they both squabble over whose turn it is to clean the bathroom. We're all just people... which the people who demonize us tend to forget.

[tymejumper]

Welcome to Soulforce. We do welcome straight people also that are supportive.

As far as the Bible, it was originally written in Hebrew. We don't have the exact same words in English as Hebrews do. So, when it was translated, some of the content changed. Not on purpose, but by default as they had to find words in English that resembled the Hebrew meaning. Also, according to the Christian religion, Jesus came and was the 'lamb of God', he is the one that started the Christian religion, and he said not a thing about homosexuals. Also, it's not in the Ten Commandments either so obvioulsy it was not THAT important to God or he would have taken steps to ensure it was in the 'Big Ten' or at least mentioned by his son.

As for anal sex being unatural, I have a very good gay male friend who stated "you just can't be do that all the time, it's not healthy!" So, there are other gay and lesbian people who would not engage in it either because they are not comfortable with it or think it unatural. One the other hand, there are married heterosexuals who DO engage in anal sex as a matter of practice in their sex lives. Our sexual practices vary as much as anyone elses is what I am trying to point out here. So, I don't think you offended anyone.

I know some people have been taught that being gay is wrong and depraved, but also remember that the Bible was used to point out that black pepole were suppost to be slaves and not have equal rights as whites did.(same as women were due to the same things in the Bible) Sadly, the Bible has often been used in part and with whatever a person can dig out of it, to control and deamonize many groups of people, comdemn practices and denigh rights to many. It makes me want to cry that someone would tkae such a good book and rip it apart to use against people. It was meant for us to have some rules, basically, be nice to each other, treat each other well and dont try to kill if you can avoid it!

[tdogg]

Hi Catherine, welcome to Soulforce forums!! Glad you found your way here. Life and beliefs can be a struggle sometimes and it's hard to sort out the truth. I've trusted my heart often to sort it out for me. My brain gets muddied sometimes with all the thoughts racing around at once.

If you are trying to sort out your beliefs and your feelings on things, it's good to read, and research and discuss, so it's good you are here. There are so many books that are very useful, and we've a thread or two discussing many of them. Movies are good too. There are some threads on those. The important thing is to keep your heart and mind open, because that's how we learn about ourselves.

Loving someone is a natural, blessed thing. Marriage isn't what defines love, it's a demonstration of commitment to each other. The fact that you live with your boyfriend and have sex isn't evil or sinful. Marriage is definitely something that both people commit to, in order to be successful. There's no reason why you can't live together with your boyfriend to see if you are compatible and your goals and dreams are similar, or at least to see if you support each other's.

As far as sex is concerned, God blessed us all with wondrous bodies, having many parts. I haven't read or seen or felt anything that tells me certain parts are off limits to the one I love. I trust my lover, so I open my heart, soul and body to her to love me in return. It's mutual, that's the important thing. Never let someone else do something you don't want. Otherwise, how can love between two people be wrong or sinful?

I suspect that Jesus isn't too keen on religion. He's more of a spiritual, loving, compassionate man and not too much of a zealot, right-winger. So he would probably be ok with your situation. I know he is ok with mine. I'm a lesbian in a loving relationship with another woman. It is blessed and we are blessed and that's all the confirmation I need to know it's good.

Hope you stick around and find some answers to help you on your life's journey!!!

T-dogg

[Zerbie]

Welcome, Catherine. What a wonderful, open and authentic introductory post!


I'm glad you decided to chat with the folks around here. I can appreciate your sense of struggle and grappling with the 'gay' issue. People make it convoluted. That's the doing of people, not God.

Most people on this forum are christians. Not all. I have never identified as christian myself. I say that so you'll know that this statement comes from a non-christian:

Regarding your desire to trust in Jesus conflicting with your conscience around the messages you are hearing from some in the church about gay people - we need to be careful not to toss Jesus out of the tub when emptying the dirty bath water. There is no reason at all why you could not, if you wanted or felt you had to, walk away from a particular church, or all churches, while following the teachings of Jesus in your everyday life. Christ's teachings do not depend on a building or on a book, but they do depend on us to embody them. He desired us to, such is my belief.

Organized religions have committed great wrongs throughout history and into the present moment. For me, having seen such wrongs in my childhood without being raised as a church-goer, it put me off churches for life. For others, who may have been raised as church members and have a deep love for their church, it is a clarion call for them to embody the justice and compassion that Christ demanded, to call the institutional church back to its founding law. There is also no reason why you could not step away from the church now if you feel the need, but return at some future time if it feels like the right thing to do.

You found a great place to come and discuss all kinds of issues. Hope you will stick around for a while.

[truthseeker]

Thanks to everyone who has given me a warm welcome. I have read your Blogg Harmless Eccentric - I know how you feel at times. I will no doubt chat to you all at some time. bye for now..............

[Gennee]

Hi Catherine and welcome to Soulforce. It's good to question some things if you are not sure. Maybe god wants to do a new work in you. Many people like you are doing the same thing. I pray that we can be of help and guidance in your quest.

Gennee

[sailaway58]

Welcome to the site,
I am a conservative male heterosexual, married 30+ years. I have been in the church all my life and I have come to a couple conclusions.
First:
If you want to find acceptance for homosexuality in scripture, you can.
I subscribe to the outline created here by Mel White but found the book, The Children are Free by Jeff Minor more complete in explanation.
If you want to condemn homosexuality with the scriptures you can do that as well.
We see what we want to see.
What I know as fact is that I have gay friends that love God, who are moral loving people that I trust.
Second:
If I am going to be wrong about the issue, I will error on the side of loving others.
Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and might; and your neighbor as yourself.
That's what is required for eternal life, I think gay people are capable of this.
Third:
I have come to believe as Carol (a friend) once told me, the fear of fundamentalists is that Christ really did die for us all.

Let me just say I don't believe you have to understand it all, you just have to love, I don't care if it is a choice or a human condition, (I lean to human condition) it is who they are. I don't have to judge anyone, I have to respond in love.
What do you want from Christians that see you living with someone that you are not spiritually yoked to? That you live with? Condemnation?

If Gods grace is not for everyone it is not for anyone.

[Pablo Rafael]

Catherine,

Welcome to the forums. It is always a joy to speak to someone who is wanting to understand. Please join in our discussions.

Originally Posted by sailaway58

If I am going to be wrong about the issue, I will error on the side of loving others.
Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and might; and your neighbor as yourself.
That's what is required for eternal life, I think gay people are capable of this.
Third:
I have come to believe as Carol (a friend) once told me, the fear of fundamentalists is that Christ really did die for us all.

Let me just say I don't believe you have to understand it all, you just have to love, I don't care if it is a choice or a human condition, (I lean to human condition) it is who they are. I don't have to judge anyone, I have to respond in love.
What do you want from Christians that see you living with someone that you are not spiritually yoked to? That you live with? Condemnation?

If Gods grace is not for everyone it is not for anyone.

Tim, this is one of the most eloquent statements I have heard. It is Christianity in action. (After listening to you, I almost wish I were straight.)

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[Vanessa White]

So glad that you are at least seeking answers and willing to consider other ways to look at the same thing, it really is all about the love that we carry in our souls for ourselves and others. And the faith that we have in knowing that God/Jesus and others love us, and created us, just the way that we are.... beautiful, fragile, human souls.

[Jennifer5]

Welcome