Coming out of the Evangelical Christianity Closet

[EvangelicalSunblock]

Hello friends,

It's wonderful to find you all here.

I have had the unfortunate experience of going through Redeemed Lives ex-gay program through Church of the Resurrection housed on Wheaton College property....twice in the late 90's. This is a program created by "ex-gay" Mario Bergner and Leanne Payne. I'm really curious to know what God will say to those two when they get to the pearly gates. It never occurred to me to question why the ex-gay group was lumping LGBT folks into the addictions groups.

After that didn't work I decided to go to a very conservative anti-gay college as a last ditch effort. My internal mantra was literally, go to Northern and be gay, go to Asbury be okay. I graduated, still very gay and confused, from Asbury College, just outside of Lexington, KY, in 2003. It turned out to be the best decision I ever made. Thanks to all the lovely women from all around the country that helped me to see very clearly that I am indeed gay. Who knew that gender segregation on campus would be such a blessing

I'm currently in a committed relationship going on 3 years. I've just submitted paperwork to the Chicago Circuit Court to change my name as a sign of our commitment. I'm giddy about it. After 15 years of anti-gay therapy I find myself in a healthy relationship with of all people, a psychologist. We have similar backgrounds and consider ourselves as having come out of Evangelical Christianity.

Because of all of this I have no relationship with my family. I was asked to leave the house when I was 17 or stop seeing my then girlfriend. I am really interested in starting a project, no idea how to go about it, but collect letters between LGBT children and their parents. I've found that the ridiculous things that family has said over the years has pushed me to a place where I have learned to really heal myself, speak to myself, find my voice, make clear boundaries, whether I knew it or not.

I want to be a part of this group, but walking into a church still sends shivers down my spine. I'm still not sure how to move past this. I was set to hear Mary Lou Wallner speak about a month ago...but just couldn't get beyond the front door.

Thanks all for being here

[HarmlessEccentric]

Boy, can I relate to your difficulty in going back to church. For what it's worth, I visited the Chicago Temple when I was in your neck of the woods, and they were a very nice, gay-friendly United Methodist congregation. One thing I did was joining a church with a very different worship style than I had grown up in- I had my worst experiences in a low-church happy-clappy congregation, so I chose a high church candles-n-robes GLBT-friendly church when I came out.

If you decide you miss church, you could:
-Ask around among your gay friends, and go to church with some of them.
-Find a gay-friendly church, and call or email to discuss your difficulties with the pastor. Ask if the pastor would meet to talk with you at your friendly neighborhood coffeehouse, less scary for you than the church building.

But if you decide not to, I'll certainly still like you. Boy, they'll screw with your head, won't they? I have some knots I haven't managed to untie yet, too.

[Daniel]

Your 'handle' made me smile then laugh out loud. You must have a wicked sense of humor, which you will find others have as well on this forum.

What shall we call you? Sun? Block? Sunblock? Ev? Please let us know.

Oh God- you did the ex-gay thing twice! That's something. Boy. Do you gets points for trying! I never made it that far. There must be some kind of award for that, right?

I went to an AG college in Missouri and had two girlfriends and was awkfward with both of them. Never could figure out what to do with them (glad you have! ) Thank god that went no-where! But the allure of men....ah....that was another matter, though I was so far in the closet I hardly knew what I felt.

Graduated, taught in the area, and then fell in love- for a short, brief, guilty and lovely time, with a gem of a young man who was going to my Alma Mater! Well. When that fell apart (guilt on both sides), I sent myself packing back East, into grad school and then - in time- found my way to Sin City- NYC.

Have been with the same man for 15 years now. And though I haven't exactly left Christianity behind, I have incoporated the perspectives of other ways of looking at the world, from Eastern sources mostly, from Eastern orthodoxy to Buddhism to Yoga. Has done me a world of good and shown me that there is a big world out there.

And it's a pretty big and diverse world in here too.

I've darkened many a church door as a church musician- especially the Episcopal Church, and have left my Evangelical world pretty much behind. No more Charismatic services for me!

That said, my siblings, 3 out of 5 of them (I being one), are pretty much involved in conservative churches- my oldest brother is a missionary overseas.

Your project sounds really interesting, and while i don't have any letters from my parents at the time that I came out in my late 20's, I vividly remember what was said to me. Yea. It is seared into my memory.

I later learned that a lot of the horrible things my father said were not only based on his own fear and ignorance, but also his experiences as a kid: the fear of gay people was ingrained in him early on.

We have a pretty good relationship now. Why? I started tellling my parents (not a very demonstrative or communicative bunch) that I loved them. I mean, I thought, someone has to say this! And he/she who knows better goes first, right?

So I did that. And I will never forget the first few choked words that came back on the phone. They sounded like they came from very far away, as though the words were something that had been forgotten under an old bed in the attic.

Oh...the "I love you's" are pretty standard now. And are meant. They really are. Took a long time. But it's been worth it.

The scriptures talk about training a child up in the way they should go, but I think the gay children of religiously conservative families- when they have come out and are secure ini themselves- have a lot to teach their families. And in my humble opinion, it really starts with love.

After all, don't we all want to same thing? That is, love and acceptance?

So then. As I see it, the way to go about that is to give it. Of course, that doesn't mean putting up with crap, but loving the those who can't see past their noses anyway.

Sorry for the sermonette (well....it is Sunday AM as I write- and I am not in church ), but I hope you get my drift.

You are so welcome here! And I hope you stick around. And you may want to talk to Zerbie (a potent force around here), she just started going to a church. In fact, there is a thread about her doing so. I know I am going to find my way back in my own way, but for right now, I accompany my hubby to the church that he plays the organ at at odd times. That's enough for me after many years of professional church singing. I think, like me, you will know when and where it is time to return. Best not the worry about it- or force it- but just keep it in the back of your mind and see what happens. Things have a way of working out.

Peace and blessings to you.

Daniel

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by EvangelicalSunblock

It's wonderful to find you all here.

I have had the unfortunate experience of going through Redeemed Lives ex-gay program through Church of the Resurrection housed on Wheaton College property....twice in the late 90's.
I want to be a part of this group, but walking into a church still sends shivers down my spine. I'm still not sure how to move past this. I was set to hear Mary Lou Wallner speak about a month ago...but just couldn't get beyond the front door.

Thanks all for being here

Welcome!

Originally Posted by Daniel

Your 'handle' made me smile then laugh out loud. You must have a wicked sense of humor, which you will find others have as well on this forum.

What shall we call you? Sun? Block? Sunblock? Ev? Please let us know.
I was thinking, Sunny??


Oh God- you did the ex-gay thing twice! That's something. Boy. Do you gets points for trying! I never made it that far. There must be some kind of award for that, right?

I went to an AG college in Missouri and had two girlfriends and was awkfward with both of them.

Daniel, *You* had girlfriends?


Never could figure out what to do with them

Not you, honey, you were made for another man.

And I'm so glad you found him!

(glad you have! ) Thank god that went no-where! But the allure of men....ah....that was another matter, though I was so far in the closet I hardly knew what I felt.




Have been with the same man for 15 years now.


You are so welcome here! And I hope you stick around. And you may want to talk to Zerbie (a potent force around here), she just started going to a church. In fact, there is a thread about her doing so.


Things have a way of working out.

Peace and blessings to you.

Daniel

Ditto! Welcome.

I so relate to not wanting to walk into a church. Unlike you, I was not raised in one so never had a bad experience IN one. I just happened to catch Jerry Falwell or his clone on television when I was a little girl, and based on that, made SURE I never entered one. Like, ever. In high school, my class toured England, and when we got to York, I was the only one who would not tour inside the York Minster. My reasoning being it was a church and churches were terrible places, no place I should be.
Getting me inside a church took payment. Being a classical singer, I've been paid to sing for church services many times. I always viewed it somewhat like visiting an alien planet.

Finally, last month, I decided to give churches a try - hubby was far away for a while, I was lonely, so I thought what the heck. Let's see. By now I know that there are many different kinds of churches.
Isn't it funny, but I found one that I liked -- I went twice, and liked it twice. I plan to go again when we return from vacation.

So that is a summary of my church odyssey. You may or may not find a time when you want to go back, or find a new church, or some different community that will take its place and function in your life.

It sounds like you've ended up in a good place now. Nothing is better than a good relationship! If you have that, the rest will fall into place.

I'm glad you found Soulforce - and I hope we haven't talked your ears off already. Please come back and post some more.

We're glad you're here.

[marutidas]

Hi sunny,

Welcome.

If you live in a big city you might be able to find a gay friendly church.
Here in albuquerque we have to, one of which I have gone to a couple of times, MCC who has a Lesbian paster. I don't go often, christianity is not my path.

That is another thing, If you are in a church that does not accept you for who you are, you have every right to find another who will.

[Gennee]

First of all, welcome to Soulforce. I read your post and I just want to say that you are such a beautiful person. God has brought you through some difficult times. What the ex-gay ministries have done is a crime. I pray that God will lead you to the project that you are thinking about doing. I am a transgender person and what ever I can contribute, just let me know.

Gennee

[BruceChris]

Yes, around here it is very helpful to offer us a personal name, and a gender, either of birth or of personal identity if you want to get to know the regulars around here. I see others in this thread want to get to know you as much as I do, as they've brought it up, too.

I very much appreciate your prompt response to my Personal Message.

You are of course not the only one to have had bad experiences with a church, or church organization. I wish that the forums were still set up so that we could backtrack every one of everyone's postings, it is sometimes a very useful tool to have. The thread that Daniel mentioned is a good one to start with; some of us have had very negative experiences indeed:

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3343

If you're still interested, please read more of our forums, and come back and tell us more about yourself, and your better half.

There is a resource that I see that Soulforce still does not list:

http://www.welcomingresources.org/directory.htm

It is a local organization, now a part of NGLTC, that is run by a lesbian minister, and among other things researches churches all over the country to find churches that are welcoming, and affirming. I highly recommend it.

Peace, Love, and lets all move to California and vote, Bruce Chris

[tdogg]

Welcome to the Soulforce forums Sunblock! Glad you found your way here. I kinda get your reluctance to enter a church, although certainly not as intense as your experiences. I just got tired of what I felt were lies, taught in church over the years. And the money grubbing too.

I've been to a couple in my area recently. Metropolitan Community Churches are of course the GLBT churches but are open and friendly to all. My partner and I also attended a midnight mass at a Franciscan Catholic church which is extremely accepting and open to GLBT people.

But, take your time. It will happen when you are ready. Meanwhile, try to search out friends who have similar experiences. Hope you stick around and share some more!

Tdogg (in CA and voting NO in November!!)

[antiochian]

Welcome and congratulations on finding love! You're blessed! Many years to both of you!

[EvangelicalSunblock]

Daniel, you are the cutest...or is Zerbie the cutest? So many questions. Thanks for the welcome.

[pnggrad79]

Welcome Sunblock!
Is your name indicative of the way the church has "burned" you in the past? It would be a fitting name and it sounds like you endured much torment and discrimination. There is no such thing as ex gay. It is repressed gay if anything. Welcome anyway and best of luck in finding a church. Much love to you and your partner. May you have many good years together.

[BishopIoan]

Hi, Sunblock and welcome! I think MCC would be a good place to start as I believe they are Evangelical. But also I would advise you to check out other spiritual paths--Christian and non-Christian--to see what if any alternate path works for you.

I have to second pnngrad: there really is no such thing as "ex-gay". The people that try to push these programs on gay people are doing them a great disservice (talk about an agenda! ). I really admire your fortitude in going through that scene twice, but I'm glad you've put it behind you.

[nmwolfboy]

Welcome, Sunblock!

i may be late in saying "Hi" but it's just as heartfelt as everyone else's.

i really can empathize with your shivers about walking into a church. That's pretty much how i felt a year & a half ago when i first walked into what has now become my parish. Actually, i drove past the church for a couple of Sundays, losing my nerve to actually pull in the parking lot! When i finally braved the church doors, i was like a frightened rabbit, keeping my eyes out for every available exit route.

You're very welcome here. You'll find us a friendly and sometimes rowdy bunch.

Pax,
scott

[labguy22]

Hello and welcome,
As a recovering Missionary Baptist (22 years clean...yeah!!!) I can relate to much of your story. Never had to attend anything quite so harsh as you. Not that my parents wouldn't have tried, but thankfully I was out the door before I came out. Electric Shock Treatment would have probably been seen as a viable solution to save my soul.
If you havn't seen it already, "But I'm A Cheerleader" gives a wonderfully twisted look at trying to make us un-gay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXHbjPaZJJs

[EvangelicalSunblock]

I have to second pnngrad: there really is no such thing as "ex-gay". The people that try to push these programs on gay people are doing them a great disservice (talk about an agenda! ). I really admire your fortitude in going through that scene twice, but I'm glad you've put it behind you.[/QUOTE]

Yes, agreed. No such thing as an "ex-gay"...ie, Ted Haggard, Republicans, my dad . If only someone could come up with some dirt on Pat Robertson or his freakishly cloned son. I put the emphasis on the ex-ex-gay = tried to be an "ex-gay" then realized that was bogus and am now an ex-ex-gay.

Again, thanks all for the welcome.

[Vanessa White]

Welcome, Sunblock.

Okay, I am with Daniel all the way: Love the handle.....way cool........

Sorry to hear about your ex-gay experience(s), but so glad to know that you are proudly an ex-ex-gay survivor. When I was growing up, in the Catholic church, I don't remember hearing anything overtly negative or outright about homosexuality; but, never felt the love from those Catholics over time, or as I started to come out. Now, my partner and I and our daughter have joined and attend a United Methodist church in our town; so far, so good, although our pastor just left and we have some concerns about our new one....just hoping he is at least open to some knowledge.....

Anyway, glad you found us, congrats on your partnership, and stick around!!!