Is the Soulforce Forum passé?

[Matt Algren]

Speaking for myself, I've been surprised since I got here at how inactive the boards are. On the one hand, we're a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority, so there's a limited number of people to be involved. On the other, there's a lot to talk about.

When I came onboard a few months ago, I was immediately suprised by the lack of deeper theological discussion, gay-related or otherwise. I'm pretty active on another forum, and it's almost impossible to have a good conversation about Christianity. Every time I try to strike up a conversation (or someone else does) it quickly devolves into "Is the Bible true?" or "Is there a God?", and frankly, I don't want to have that conversation over and over, especially not with people who've already decided that I'm wrong and are chomping at the bit to tell me I'm stupid. That is to say, I want to be able to start with certain things taken as read, and that's next to impossible on a board that doesn't specialize in religion.

As much as I recognize and respect the fact that not everybody here is a Christian, I'd love to be able to talk about my faith without having to start with the basics. The only thread around here in recent memory that deals with religion/faith/the Bible is one started with the purpose of poking fun. (And I don't mean that as an attack. Lord knows I'm in for some poking fun from time to time.)

[BenL]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

As much as I recognize and respect the fact that not everybody here is a Christian, I'd love to be able to talk about my faith without having to start with the basics. The only thread around here in recent memory that deals with religion/faith/the Bible is one started with the purpose of poking fun. (And I don't mean that as an attack. Lord knows I'm in for some poking fun from time to time.)

Matt,

I, too, miss the days when we talked theology and/or spirituality around here. I remember when both udog and Andy (both Calvinists ) could spend more time theologizing here. I was in awe of their knowledge of Scripture and the biblical languages and their ability to put questions of religion into context. I enjoy the Budhist and pagan/wiccan positions expressed here, because all of this comes from the force of the universe, call her what you will. I especially like to hear good news over and over again about how I am loved, cherished actually, by that same power we struggle to understand (all except the atheists, Rick?). I learn from Rick and others, too. They seem even more tuned into the human condition sometimes than we more religious types are. I feel we need all the voices of good will here that we can muster. I will try not to be so absent and so silent in future.

[andrewlittle]

I would probably have more of an opinion, but I haven't been around much so I haven't noticed the lack of involvement.

I am inclined to think that, much like most other things, people who participate on Soulforce have rhythms and cycles. I know I do, and my quiet part of my cycle has been particularly long this time. Anyway, the cycles aren't a particular problem, unless a number of regulars enter a low spot in their cycles at the same time.

It's either that, or some of you folks conspired to get quiet at the same time I did just to make my absence more noticeable. I really don't appreciate you intentionally making me look like I haven't been here, and I urge you to cut it out. The whole point of being absent is to be unnoticeable, after all.

As for the discussion about people thinking they shouldn't say what they think because some of us might get our knickers in a wad - why the hell would you take our fun away? Some of us like a good pucker once in a while - it gives us an opportunity to wax on fondly and relentlessly about what we think we know about the unknowable.

Jeez! What the heck happened to you people while I was gone. Oh crappe - forget I said that. I haven't really been gone. Just overlook what I said and act like I'm not here.

[Jennifer5]

I think this question might have been all we needed to get things going again. For me the lack of posting hsa nothing to do with the things going on here at this point in time, I would love to respond to many of these threads, I just can't. I've tried to get a little self-control and when I come on here, I want to respond to something really fast, so if there isn't a short fun thing I just just respond quickly to, I get off. I make myself go back to my schoolwork.

So, my excuses....

I spend about 90% of my waking hours working on schoolwork

When I get a chance I go on facebook or some kind of IM to talk to someone, but Nate is the only one of use that I can get ahold of that way (which I've been enjoying). So he's the only forum member I really can talk to when I don't have much time.

When I do get time off, it is away from the computer. I help my mom with her cleaning business sometimes, which is a nice break from schoolwork. Then occasionally go and do something with friends.

I think the only reason for the lack of activity on here is the lack of time.

[tpdncr4christ]

If I may, I can see three possible reasons for folks not posting here on the forums.

Personally, I got tired of the argument. I would find myself becoming way too emotionally involved in the discussions, to the extent where it was affecting my regular life. And, as much as I love it here, I had to devote more time to the people in my life who weren't just words on a computer screen... Does that make sense?

Another reason I can see for a lull in the forums is a genuine lack of interest. Everyone, it seems, has heard all of the arguments both for and against homosexuality, and all of the different interpretations of scripture and ideologies of how much a government should influence social practices. The majority of the American population is starting to ignore these issues. Aside from the battle in California, we take the sidelines for everything. There really isn't a great passion for gay rights in this country anymore. Too much else is happening, society is too busy to focus on gay rights, so it would make sense that a forum of this nature would have a lull.

And thirdly (remember, I'm only just speculating), it may be simply because not too many people know about Soulforce. Honestly, if you were to walk down the street and ask the first ten people you ran into, "Hey, what do you think about Soulforce, and its position on homosexuality?" How many people would be able to answer that question? How many people would even know what we are? I know in my neighborhood people might think that Soulforce was some new age religion or something.

That's just my thoughts...

[Alecto]

See...I kind of agree with you on the first point, but kind of not tpdancer. Any discussion, especially with differences of opinion, represents an investment of time and emotional energy. Some appear to be worth it (and often they are, ending with both parties having a better understanding of the other), and a great many, especially about gay topics, simply aren't. Not often, but on occasion I've chosen to stay quiet here because I came to the conclusion that a given discussion simply wasn't worth my time (which it's going to take a certain amount of) or my energy (which I can have a little more control over sometimes, hopefully, if I don't let some things get me all worked up).

That first reason ties into your second reason then. YES, we've all rehashed the basic arguments. Truth is, though, if we think someone's here in good faith (specifically new folks), and they've done the effort of a basic forum search before trotting out the same question, it goes a ways towards implying that that discussion might be "worth it". Even if it's strikingly similar to ones we've had last year. Even if it's boring and passe for us, it might be worth it (though it's a lot more worth it to find the dead thread, link it, and pick up from there).

[Daniel]

I understand about being emotionally pulled into a discussion- and not getting/obtaining one's goals in life. That said, not everyone is here for the same reason or at the same time in their life.

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

Another reason I can see for a lull in the forums is a genuine lack of interest. Everyone, it seems, has heard all of the arguments both for and against homosexuality, and all of the different interpretations of scripture and ideologies of how much a government should influence social practices. The majority of the American population is starting to ignore these issues. Aside from the battle in California, we take the sidelines for everything. There really isn't a great passion for gay rights in this country anymore. Too much else is happening, society is too busy to focus on gay rights, so it would make sense that a forum of this nature would have a lull.

For me- this is the most serious argument to be made.

Is the population starting to ignore gay rights? And is there a lack of passion for gay rights?

My own sense is that there doesn't seem to be a 'taking it to the streets' kind of involvement any more. I've even heard this remarked about by gay activists such as Andy Humm and Ann Northrop here in NYC.

Could be a good and bad thing. Good because gay rights may be figuring less and less - negatively that is- into politics. Bad because everyone is too occupied with chasing the brass ring. As such, our culture of comfort may be killing us.

You last point about people not knowing about SF is perhaps the most salient one. And one which the 'office' is most concerned.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Daniel

For me- this is the most serious argument to be made.

Is the population starting to ignore gay rights? And is there a lack of passion for gay rights?

My own sense is that there doesn't seem to be a 'taking it to the streets' kind of involvement any more. I've even heard this remarked about.

True.
But not just gay rights. Everything. There is almost no take it to the streets involvement on any issue. We've been collectively discouraged from that sort of thing for decades, a generation or so. It surely doesn't help that so many people have faced police harassment or arrest when they were WELL within their legal and free speech rights. But that alone is not it. Most people don't even think in terms of 'take it to the streets' action. I think we're taught that only 'weird' people, some kind of activist 'fringe,' do that.

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

As for the discussion about people thinking they shouldn't say what they think because some of us might get our knickers in a wad - why the hell would you take our fun away? Some of us like a good pucker once in a while - it gives us an opportunity to wax on fondly and relentlessly about what we think we know about the unknowable.

Knickers in a wad? Face it, some of us just love a good debate and need to vent our spleens once in a while. Personally, I don't mind tuning in, getting all pi**ed off and posting what I think needs to be said. My wife is so used to me getting that way over the editorials in the newspaper, that she threatend me that she would cancel the subscription. What? I said, you will remove the means of getting all my aggression out. Better than kicking the dog I always say!

[wmanion]

I may not post a lot but I am always on here and always reading and learning. There are times that I feel inadequate to voice my opinion on a subject, (which really boils down to a lack of confidence) but when I have a firm grasp (at least in my mind) of what is being said, then I will comment. However, I have always been a person who reads and learns from others and it is something I find that I need. I find Zerbie, Daniel, Steve, Andy, Jamie, Kara, Scott (both of them), Udog, and many others, very knowledgeable and I love reading and learning from them. I find a lot of times that no matter what we believe and what means we use to grow and establish ourselves, we are all seeking the same things in our lives. We are all seeking acceptance which begins in our own lives and then can be passed on to others. I would hope that SoulForce's Forum never becomes passe' and that it continues to thrive and grow. Of course over time it will evolve as we realize our own freedoms and goals being reached, but it will not lose its purpose. We know from all the Civil right movements that just because equality under the law is attained, it will be years down the road before it is truly realized and becomes whole in its completeness. This election year has shown that although equality was given to a group of people many years ago, it is still far from becoming the reality that it needs to be. We have made great bounds with more to to come but it will years and years in the making and SoulForce will still be needed to play a major role in the battles that are yet to come.

Bill

[Unmasked]

My biggest issue is a time crunch. It takes a lot of time to be a full-time student, and a double-agent Crusader for both Christianity and Secular Humanism. I spend most of my time on facebook being angry at the Church, and on YouTube defending it from rabid anti-theists. I love atheists, I think the world might be a better place if there were more of them, but I dislike anti-theists, because I find them to be dogmatic and scary (if anybody has a problem with that statement, please do confront and educate me...nicely though, I scare easily). I've questioned my belief in the Divine many times, and held many positions. My beliefs are quite honestly more neo-pagan than anything. I believe in the teachings of Christ, and I think that the idea of The Way, The Truth, and The Life refers more to the teachings than anything else. I feel that many are too fatalistic, more "Crossian" than Christian. It seems like the key issues in Christianity are the death of Christ and the teachings of Paul. I do not believe that Christ is the Son of God, but simply a son of G-dde. I believe that every person can ascend to the level of Christ, and become a savior to somebody.

I don't post as much as I would like to, but I consider myself a part of this beautiful community, and to be doing the work of Christ, who I do believe was sent by G-dde to save us from guilt, despair, and the chains of religious dogma.

And as I've gotten off-topic and started wandering around the interweb, I'll let the conversation get back to where it was

[Zerbie]

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

I hope you're right! It would be nice to see the forums go back to what they were.

[wmanion]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

I also hope things will be back to "normal" after the elections. I have felt so much negativity within the last 30 days of this election that it has been overwhelming. This race has been more about the "isms" than the actual issues that face Americans and I am sure this race will go down in history as one of the nastiest of our nation. However, I believe hope and a positive outlook are only hours away for many of us.

Bill

[Eugene]

And by traffic, I mean discussions. There seems to have been a dearth of substantial discussions of late. Why is that I wonder? Is it the times we live in now? Are people concerned with the the price of gas, the elections and the world financial melt-down?

The price of gas is a non-issue for the moment. Wait a few months, and we'll see.

The world financial melt-down will, in my opinion, have implications for gay rights in the United States. Prosperity and social freedom are somehow linked. I can't give you logic for why I think that. I just sense that it is true. Maybe I am just a pessimist. (Well, there's no "maybe" to it. I am a pessimist.)

[BruceChris]

I like the forums, I like to read, and post. If I feel a need to research someone, I can go back and read many of their previous posts. I feel that I've made many friends here, although it would be wonderful to meet in person. (For a short while, I had to work to convince Zerbie that I wasn't going to stalk her, but hey, the gas would be WAY to spendy!)

Whosoever.org is also a Christian gay site, but it's just not the same. But they've got some nice stuff, maybe we could learn from them.

I notice that some people are just glad that we are here, and they post 2 or 3 times, and then they're gone.

We have lately gotten 2 or 3 very articulate allies, and most of them seem to be straight.

At my church, most of the members are gay, it is of course a nominally gay church, but of course gay rights verses the bible never comes up. Gay topics don't come up directly all that often, but the above are hardly reasons to stop going.

Being here is just a great way to dialogue with he gay community, and keep up on what others are saying.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[dsdrane]

My own sporadic participation over the last year can be partially chalked up to some serious settling-in/nesting with a certain dashing someone 1,500 miles and one timezone away from where I first stumbled onto this site, but mostly it has been an exercise in self-censorship. I basically got to the point where I no longer liked how I "sounded" and came to the conclusion that some disengagement was in order.

That said, I've always kept SF in my peripheral vision, peeking over here and there, if for no other reason, to reassure myself that things were continuing apace.

It would be easy to say that I'm here posting now thanks to the extra free time that accompanies a welcome -- if involuntary -- unemployment. To be honest, though, SF and its denizens have been popping into my consciousness quite a bit recently.

Maybe I'm just now getting over my election hangover. Perhaps the desire to (re-)engage comes from my activist side getting a jolt from Prop. 8...Rick Warren...the still-unfolding Anglican schism, etc., etc. Maybe I'm simply feeling more social.

Whatever it is, I welcome it because this is a moment too preganant with possibility not to be in the conversation.

[Alecto]

I do the same censoring thing. It's like, some topics I find informative, but don't really have commentary to add. Others, I'm immediately very angry, and I deliberately wait a day or two to think about what it is that makes me angry, and see if I'm still angry when I come back to it (which does on occasion have the side effect of someone saying something even WORSE in the meantime, but what can ya do?).

And there are a few that I just have a happy conversation about.
Just wanted to say I totally do the self-censorship thing too.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I do the same censoring thing. It's like, some topics I find informative, but don't really have commentary to add. Others, I'm immediately very angry, and I deliberately wait a day or two to think about what it is that makes me angry, and see if I'm still angry when I come back to it (which does on occasion have the side effect of someone saying something even WORSE in the meantime, but what can ya do?).

And there are a few that I just have a happy conversation about.
Just wanted to say I totally do the self-censorship thing too.

My comments in the "experiment on homophobia" topic didn't anger you did they? sorry if they did. I recently absorbed a lot of material, and I can get carried away...

[NathanATX]

Fantastic conversation.

The biggest reason for me not posting was having poor-to-none internet service at home. And then, I've also been busier than ever in my business.

I've missed you wonderful people. I have missed the thought-provoking conversations about spirituality. I've missed being in conversation about the commitment to bring non-violence into all areas of our lives, especially into the religious-based homophobia conversation.

My intention is that my participation here be about causing the Beloved Community to come alive in my life, in your lives and in the world.

Have a safe & FUN New Year's Celebration!

Much love,
Nathan