Great article on white privilege.....

[ctozrn]

This is a really good article....

Christine

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/T...80916-307.html

[inca nitta]

The article is interesting, indeed, but I find the author's definition of white privilege only within the McCain/Palin vs. Obama thing, to be pretty narrow. If he looked around at so many things that were done for Blacks and other racial minorities at the expense of Whites, then he would be more open-minded. For example, the affirmative action in colleges. Many top schools let Black applicants in who don't have very high GPA, while refusing acceptance to Whites with high GPA, because they don't fit the quota. This was the case of Berkeley University in 1994. So, here, there is also a Black privilege.

I also think that the reason why Obama is being criticized has mostly to do with his political views, which are so liberal that not all people are ready to embrace, yet, and it's not about his skin color. We have Black people in our government like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, and Colin Powell who receive more praises than criticism. For example, Colin Powell was a general in Desert Storm, and when he came back, he was portrayed as a patriotic American hero. If his skin color was a problem, then he wouldn't be honored this way. I also never heard any harsh criticism towards Rice, as compared to Obama, and it's important to remember that Obama is half-White, while Rice is 100% Black. Thus, I think that it's about her views that people tend to find as something they can relate to, while they cannot relate themselves with Obama's views.

On a personal note, as a white kid who went to a predominantly Black school and who had to live in fear, that I'd get beat up and robbed, everytime I'd walk down the hall (It happened to me once already, not only the Black kids beat me up, stole my money, but they also called me a f--ot on top of that), I will never buy the theory that I possess some mysterious powerful privilege.

If I had the privilege, then I wouldn't have to worry about not being touched, right? Apparently, it wasn't the case for me.

[Alecto]

I like this better as an explanation of white privilege in general. That's really all I'm throwing in for the moment.

[RedneckDyke]

I don't know who these people are who write these things. Maybe they think they have "white privilege" but what they really have is "rich people privilege".

Tell them to get out of academia and dress like a "f-ing redneck" for a day of so. Tell them to drive a beat up truck with a broke out tail light. See how many times they get harrassed by cops. Tell them to dress like a poor person then go into one of their department stores. I bet they get followed.

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

I don't know who these people are who write these things. Maybe they think they have "white privilege" but what they really have is "rich people privilege".

You got it! Ditto!

Tell them to get out of academia and dress like a "f-ing redneck" for a day of so. Tell them to drive a beat up truck with a broke out tail light. See how many times they get harrassed by cops. Tell them to dress like a poor person then go into one of their department stores. I bet they get followed.

And I'm positively sure that this kind of stuff happens a lot where you live. Actually, I used to know Tim Wise, the author of the article in the OP, him and I used to talk frequently through emails about 8 years ago. I know that he comes from a White upper middle class family, and therefore he believes that most White people have the same worldview as he does. But, I'm pretty much sure you know, this is not the case. I noticed that we all tend to believe that majority of people who share the same skin color as we do, also share the same educational upbringing and general wordviews. Sometimes, we are so certain that we don't see the biases, coming out of our words and actions. I can see clearly, that Tim Wise is not any different.

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

I don't know who these people are who write these things. Maybe they think they have "white privilege" but what they really have is "rich people privilege".

Tell them to get out of academia and dress like a "f-ing redneck" for a day of so. Tell them to drive a beat up truck with a broke out tail light. See how many times they get harrassed by cops. Tell them to dress like a poor person then go into one of their department stores. I bet they get followed.

Firstly, Tim Wise's essay points out the inequity as it pertains to the presidential race. That's a very narrow scope, so obviously he's not going to hit every piece of the puzzle. Second, you're bringing a new variable into the mix, unless you're suggesting that dressing "like a poor person" is the default position for non-whites.

A white person dressed "like a poor person" is most certainly less likely to be harassed than a black person dressed "like a poor person".

The most telling, and one that makes the argument most clear to me, is this example:

White privilege is being able to dump your first wife after she's disfigured in a car crash so you can take up with a multi-millionaire beauty queen (who you go on to call the c-word in public) and still be thought of as a man of strong family values, while if you're black and married for nearly twenty years to the same woman, your family is viewed as un-American and your gestures of affection for each other are called "terrorist fist bumps."

Understand, everything in that sentence is true, including the c-word bit. He's not making it up for dramatic effect, he's just putting the two next each other.

(Okay, there's one mistake in it. The Fox news reader didn't call it a "terrorist fist bump", she called it a "terrorist fist jab".)

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by inca nitta

I also think that the reason why Obama is being criticized has mostly to do with his political views, which are so liberal that not all people are ready to embrace, yet, and it's not about his skin color. We have Black people in our government like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, and Colin Powell who receive more praises than criticism. For example, Colin Powell was a general in Desert Storm, and when he came back, he was portrayed as a patriotic American hero. If his skin color was a problem, then he wouldn't be honored this way. I also never heard any harsh criticism towards Rice, as compared to Obama, and it's important to remember that Obama is half-White, while Rice is 100% Black. Thus, I think that it's about her views that people tend to find as something they can relate to, while they cannot relate themselves with Obama's views.

Remember Anita Hill? She saw Clarence Thomas very differently. And as for Rice, she has been criticised as being the worst National Security Advisor in history. She- as did Mr. Bush- went on vacation after receiving advance warnings about the United States being attacked. And after we were attacked, it took a groundswell of criticism in order for there to be a change with regard to boarding airplanes. And Powell? He trotted out the lie about Iraq being in league with Bin Laden, which was key in propelling us to war. His key 'evidence' about alluminum tubes had been discredited, but he said it anyway.

No harsh criticism? Far from it. And that's just for starters.

[inca nitta]

Well, yeah, both Rice and Thomas, and even Colin Powell (both general and Secretary of State) received strong criticism, but still their personal character wasn't so attacked as it was on Obama, in my view. I mean, this poor fellow was even equated to terrorists and labeled as hater of America, because of him being a member of UCC...

Anyway, even these Republican politicians were being criticized because of the ISSUES, not their SKIN COLOR, just like Obama was, and this is the point I was making.

Speaking of skin color, Obama's mother is white so I find it very sad that fewer white people see him as one of their own, compared to black people.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by inca nitta

Well, yeah, both Rice and Thomas received strong criticism, but still their personal character wasn't so attacked as it was on Obama, in my view. I mean, this poor fellow was even equated to terrorists and labeled as hater of America, because of him being a member of UCC...

Anyway, even these Republican politicians were being criticized because of the ISSUES, not their SKIN COLOR, just like Obama was, and this is the point I was making.

Speaking of skin color, Obama's mother is white so I find it very sad that fewer white people see him as one of their own, compared to black people.

You have a point about Powell, Rice and Thomas not being attacked because of their race. But that is only because they were not running for office, they were appointed by a President. When you put yourself out there to be a target- and that what you do when you run for office- it goes with the territory. May not be right, but that's what happens.

I'm not surprised that white voters don't see Obama differently. In fact, I believe it proves a point raised on another thread which is that voters, by and large, haven't been taught to think critically. They react to what they see based on early influence. And that influence has taught them to mistrust and fear those who have darker skin.

In other words, it would be great if reason was involved. But sadly, we have become a nation which prizes American Idol over The Leher Hour.

We'd rather be entertained than think.

Don't get me wrong. I work in the Arts. My job is in entertainment- so to speak. But that's not all of life. Public policy is important too.

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by Daniel

You have a point about Powell, Rice and Thomas not being attacked because of their race. But that is only because they were not running for office, they were appointed by a President. When you put yourself out there to be a target- and that what you do when you run for office- it goes with the territory. May not be right, but that's what happens.

Colin Powell used to be a five star general in the Army, who led the forces in Desert Storm, before the President appointed him as the Secretary of the State. In 1991, even though I was still at school, I remember how he was praised as a brilliant military hero, by different kinds of people, white and non-white. He was also used as an example to show that blacks can do great things in the military. As far as him and other individuals, mentioned above, I believe that it is very possible that in the near future, they will run for Presidency, as I said earlier. I bet if that ever happens, there is going to be a lot of sensation!

I'm not surprised that white voters don't see Obama differently. In fact, I believe it proves a point raised on another thread which is that voters, by and large, haven't been taught to think critically. They react to what they see based on early influence. And that influence has taught them to mistrust and fear those who have darker skin.

You are so right about that. But I think that the same treatment would aslo be bestowed upon African American Republican candidates. I have a friend, who is white and a registered Republican, however, when Lynn Swan entered the gubernatorial race against the incubent Democratic governor Rendell, my friend said that he would not want a black man run the state, although he shared Swan's issues.

In other words, it would be great if reason was involved. But sadly, we have become a nation which prizes American Idol over The Leher Hour.

We'd rather be entertained than think.

Don't get me wrong. I work in the Arts. My job is in entertainment- so to speak. But that's not all of life. Public policy is important too.

That sounds humorous, but so very true.

[wmanion]

As a nation we have come a long way in equality but we are not where we need to be. Unfortunate as it may be, many still have the belief that the black race is somehow inferior to the white race. We still have a lot of people who would never vote for a black man for the very reason that he is black. I worked at a Community College for many years where diversity was taught and I loved it. I was awakened to the prejudice that still exists when I left the college to work as a manager trainee for a chain of convenience stores. The year was 2002 and I could never have imagined what I was about to encounter. The manager that was suppose to be training me was a bigot. Employees were told to throw any applications from African American applicants in the garbage. A Chinese American came in and asked for an application and was told we were not hiring. One of the employees said "I thought we were." He then said, "We are but we are not hiring him." Soon, two employees were found out to be gay and were fired on drummed up charges. Of course, I knew my time was limited and that it would only be a matter of time until my sexuality became known. What the manager didn't know was that I was friends with the president of the NAACP in my city and had done work for them by organizing their mailing and membership lists. I talked to her and they sent out decoys to apply for jobs with the company. When all was said and done, they hired one black girl and removed the manager who then reappeared with the company a month later as a district manager. In the meantime, I became a target. I was put on third shift by myself at a store on the outskirts of town. My tires were deflated on my car twice. I asked to move my car to a position where I could watch it as I worked and was denied. Finally, the morning came that I jumped in my car and took off only to have my tire completely come off because all the lug nuts had been loosened. I finally quit the job because of harassment and won my unemployment case against them because of all the documentation that I had. I could not believe that this was happening in the year 2002. So it does not surprise me when I hear people say, I will never vote for a black man. Racism is still alive and well in the US whether we want to believe it or not.

Bill

[inca nitta]

Didn't anybody hear the big news?! Colin Powell announced that he is going to support and vote for Obama!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...ell/index.html

I understand that this piece of information might not have much relevance to the thread's intention, I decided to put it out, since we have had a discussion regarding the existence of blacks in both Democratic and Republican parties, and whose names were mentioned before.

I just want to say that it's pretty interesting to see how a staunch Republican, who represented a diversity of its party, has decided to vote for a Democrat, and I'm still not sure whether it was issues or the skin color that influenced such a support.

[kara speltz]

I haven't taken part in this discussion, because I was never able to get to the initial article, given that my computer tends to freeze up when I click on to links from the forums.

But this subject is one that is very important to me, and I must say that I'm really disappointed at the tendency of people in this forum to dismiss the reality of white skin privilege.

While Redneck is right that much of racism is based on class, it is the denial and failure to recognize the history of racism in this country that is the basis for so much of the Afro American anger at our comparisons between the civil rights movement of the 60s and our own struggle.

Even when the Southern Tennent Farmers Union, the first integrated union in the country(organized in the south in the 20s and 30s) was under seige, history shows that the lynchings were directed at the blacks, not the whites.

And while it is true that, as one writer indicated blacks have participated in homophobic attacks on gays, the vast majority of attacks are not by them.

Until we white people take seriously the effects of white skin privilege, it will be impossible for us to build the kinds of ties with Afro Americans that will make a difference.

To use the civil rights movement as our guide, we must first acknowledge that we still benefit from white skin privilege. That acknowledgement can only come when we educate ourselves so that we begin to recognize that privilege in our lives, and make the commitment to do all that we can to end it.

Kara

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by kara speltz

I haven't taken part in this discussion, because I was never able to get to the initial article, given that my computer tends to freeze up when I click on to links from the forums.

But this subject is one that is very important to me, and I must say that I'm really disappointed at the tendency of people in this forum to dismiss the reality of white skin privilege.

While Redneck is right that much of racism is based on class, it is the denial and failure to recognize the history of racism in this country that is the basis for so much of the Afro American anger at our comparisons between the civil rights movement of the 60s and our own struggle.

Even when the Southern Tennent Farmers Union, the first integrated union in the country(organized in the south in the 20s and 30s) was under seige, history shows that the lynchings were directed at the blacks, not the whites.

And while it is true that, as one writer indicated blacks have participated in homophobic attacks on gays, the vast majority of attacks are not by them.

Until we white people take seriously the effects of white skin privilege, it will be impossible for us to build the kinds of ties with Afro Americans that will make a difference.

To use the civil rights movement as our guide, we must first acknowledge that we still benefit from white skin privilege. That acknowledgement can only come when we educate ourselves so that we begin to recognize that privilege in our lives, and make the commitment to do all that we can to end it.

Kara

I hear what you are saying.

I am aware of our history of slavery, segregation, and lynching. I studied it in college. Yes, it's true that all those horrible things that happened to black folks before the 1960s was mainly white people's fault, but it is already 2008, and things have changed. There are drugs and gangs out there, massively affecting the black communities. I still don't understand how is what is happening right now should be blamed on the white people? White people are not telling black folks living in the ghettos that the only way for them to live a life is to either be a gangster, a pimp, or a drug dealer...

While I admire your passionate enthusiasm to help the black folks, I think that besides acknowledging the culpability of whites in the plight of blacks, black people also need to acknowledge their own shortcomings and their own contribution to the problems they have right now. Otherwise, I see that we will continue going in circles.

I see that blacks don't have many positive role models these days that they could introduce them to their children, this is why I think Barack Obama represents hope to them.

I guess that every person has different life experiences. I don't know about others but in my life, I have not endured the privilege of white skin, but quite the opposite, the minorities' privilege. Besides, my incident in school that I already described, I had other experiences where I've seen blacks getting benefits they didn't deserve at the expenses of whites. Like, I went to a public college and I've noticed how black students could say pretty much anything, even if it was deragatory, while whites had to be politically correct. I have been personally humiliated and demeaned by these people, that sometimes I feel like hitting a brick wall. Therefore, I am very sorry, but because of my life experiences, I just can't see that I represent white privilege, even if I try very hard.

Also, I hope you understand that these days, kids tend to use the word "f--ot" rather loosely and frequently, and most of the time, it doesn't not necessarily mean a person of homosexual orientation, but this ugly word means a sissy, a weakling, a cry-baby, from their perspective. However, a small minority of kids who realize that their orientation is not 100% heterosexual, tend to take it more personally and feel more hurt than the vast heterosexual majority, whenever they hear or being called by this word.