Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Montanna]

On the Obama site, change.gov, there is an answer to all the questions that asked "Will Obama do away with DADT?" The answer is yes. I thought that was great! No comments, just "Yes". I would have imported it, but I don't know how. Don't you hope that this is as straight forward as it seems!

[Alecto]

I'm appearantly a giant ball of sunshine today, but this doesn't surprise me in the least. It's bad policy, plain and simple. It's BAD for our military when we're in two wars and don't have the people to spare; we can't keep firing them over arbitrary differences.

I personally have major, major issues with the fact that THIS is going to be the first problem to be corrected (It's great that we can go out and die for a country that doesn't protect our rights), but I understand that there are people directly affected by this who do want to serve, and soon will be able to openly.
Definitely a step forward, but it just doesn't feel like a very big step.

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I'm appearantly a giant ball of sunshine today, but this doesn't surprise me in the least. It's bad policy, plain and simple. It's BAD for our military when we're in two wars and don't have the people to spare; we can't keep firing them over arbitrary differences.

I personally have major, major issues with the fact that THIS is going to be the first problem to be corrected (It's great that we can go out and die for a country that doesn't protect our rights), but I understand that there are people directly affected by this who do want to serve, and soon will be able to openly.
Definitely a step forward, but it just doesn't feel like a very big step.

Many highly skilled professionals, particularly linguists, have been dicharged from the service because of homosexuality. It's sad that good people are drummed out and our troops don't have the resources or manpower to fight these wars.

Gennee

[Alecto]

It's very frustrating (and possibly very naive of me to find it so frustrating) that there haven't really been any gay rights victories on their own merits. Few have stood up for any queer people because queer people are people and deserve rights; the things we win on we win on because it's good for straight people.

No one cared about AIDS until suddenly straight people were getting it too. The military won't rescind the ban because it's stupid, arbitrary, and serves no purpose: it'll happen because the military needs all the bodies it can get. I've seen arguments about marriage rights that argue for same sex marriage on the basis of EVERYTHING but loving same sex romantic couples (if someone wanted to raise a child with their brother, those rights would help that family; if two old friends want to share a household, if two heterosexual individuals want property rights etc. with someone of the same sex, they should be available).

Don't get me wrong: I'll take what I can get. I understand (really!) that the rights are important, and that it shouldn't bother me too much WHY people are giving them out, and I also fully understand that for many of these things, there are multiple VERY GOOD reasons outside of the most overt to me. But, really? It's not enough that we're people too?

[Zerbie]

No, Alecto, you're correct. The "why" is in fact more important in some ways than the fact of the 'victory.'

We should have a society that does the right thing because it's right, rather than because of self-interest. Progress towards that end is slow and takes lifetimes.

And no, I totally Don't Get why that should be.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

No, Alecto, you're correct. The "why" is in fact more important in some ways than the fact of the 'victory.'

We should have a society that does the right thing because it's right, rather than because of self-interest. Progress towards that end is slow and takes lifetimes.

And no, I totally Don't Get why that should be.

It's all about fear and stereotypes.

When I was younger, somewhere hiding in my subconscious was the belief that African Americans were very messy housekeepers. Where this belief came from, I have no idea.

Then I got a job delivering pizzas. For the first time, I could actually see inside hundreds of African American homes and discovered that my long held belief was completely false.

People hold unfounded beliefs about LGBT people too and unless they are exposed to the truth for themselves, they will continue hold onto these beliefs. Unless they see us as we really are, these beliefs will be extremely slow to change.

Back in the 80s I worked for my father's business. Since it was my dad's business I knew that the chances of me being fired because I was gay was zero. So I told people that I was gay. I figured that my being out in the open would encourage other gay people working there to feel comfortable to be open too.

Did it? No.

There were over 400 people that worked at the company and after ten long years of me working there as an openly gay man, not a single other gay man or lesbian woman felt comfortable to come out of the closet. Not one.

I knew several gays and lesbians who worked there and their fear that they would be exposed was so great that instead of supporting me, they took great pains to distanced themselves from me. Some even verbally bashed me to others.

So the problem of change being slow is not just because the other side is so afraid of us. It's also because most of us are so damn afraid of them.

Rick

[tdogg]

I agree with you Alecto. I'll take what we can get, for now, but until we are accepted in society the same as the next (straight) person, it will feel somewhat hollow.

The group I'm volunteering right now is making strides to open dialogue and educate church congregations about gay people. We are involved in teaching an awesome course, Living Lovingly, meant to discuss GLBTQI and marriage equality. The objective is to change minds and hearts so if/when the issue comes up in CA again, people will vote with us because it's the right thing to do. A lot of the reaction is based upon fear which is created and fed by ignorance. We must get to the problem, ignorance, instead of glossing over and addressing the symptoms (or not addressing anything at all).

It's going to be difficult and challenging work, but I think well worth it in the end. The side benefit is, when the issue of marriage equality is back on the ballot, we'll have enough support to reach our specific goal for equality. It's one step towards full equality. It would be nice if we could just wake up one day and have it all, but it's going to take grass roots work one issue at a time to actually change minds and hearts.

Meantime, I'll celebrate DADT's death when it happens, hopefully that will come soon.

[alphie]

Unfortunately this is very true Rick-

"So the problem of change being slow is not just because the other side is so afraid of us. It's also because most of us are so damn afraid of them."