Our responsibility to society...

[Jennifer5]

I was catching up with Zerbie and she mentioned that she was thinking a lot about our responsibility to society.

I am observing how much power each one of us has to make a really big impact. So let's make it the most positive, loving contribution to the world that we can make.

Zerbie, if there is anything here that you did not want to share, I will gladly edit it out. I just that it was better to use the original words.

My question to all of you is, do you agree that you have a responsibility to society?

If your answer is 'yes', then what does that look like and how can you act on it.

If your answer is 'no', I'd be curious to know why.

[christa08]

Yes and No for me.

I think I'm conflicted when it comes to issues like this (maybe I'm just conflicted all the time. )

I think if you want to make an impact, then yes, make it positive and loving like Zerbie said.

I think it's different for every person. For me, I want to make an impact and I plan to do that through getting a degree in Psychology and helping people and families.

When I really think about it, I don't feel a "responsibility" to anybody. I just see the hardships people experience and I want to be there for them just because I have compassion toward them.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by christa08

Yes and No for me.

I think I'm conflicted when it comes to issues like this (maybe I'm just conflicted all the time. )

I think if you want to make an impact, then yes, make it positive and loving like Zerbie said.

I think it's different for every person. For me, I want to make an impact and I plan to do that through getting a degree in Psychology and helping people and families.

When I really think about it, I don't feel a "responsibility" to anybody. I just see the hardships people experience and I want to be there for them just because I have compassion toward them.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that might be the same thing. If you feel compassion for a stranger and want to help them, perhaps responsibility feels like the wrong word.... but at the same time I think it kinda fits.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

I was catching up with Zerbie and she mentioned that she was thinking a lot about our responsibility to society.


Zerbie, if there is anything here that you did not want to share, I will gladly edit it out. I just that it was better to use the original words.

My question to all of you is, do you agree that you have a responsibility to society?

If your answer is 'yes', then what does that look like and how can you act on it.

If your answer is 'no', I'd be curious to know why.

But since my name was mentioned, and my words quoted, here goes.

What I wrote to Jen was a conversation between the two of us, and in that context, when I wrote "our responsibility" I meant myself and Jen. It has to do with our personality type (or types, plural, but we are close in type). We each respond, in various ways, to the problems around us with a move towards reconciliation and positive growth.

If you think about the word responsibility, you probably tend to hear echos of parents and other elders talking drearily about duty and obligation. But if you listen to the word, you hear in it 'response' and 'ability.' When I referred to responsibility in addressing Jen yesterday, I spoke of that kindling in ourselves that makes us sensitive and willing to respond to society's need. In that sense, I was referring to a personality trait (inherited or learned) that involves a willingness to take action by 'responding. . . ' = response + able.

Originally Posted by christa08

Yes and No for me.

I think I'm conflicted when it comes to issues like this (maybe I'm just conflicted all the time. )

You just sound balanced.


I think if you want to make an impact, then yes, make it positive and loving like Zerbie said.

Only one problem: there is no way to avoid having an impact. If you withdraw into a shell, that will have an impact. If you verbally abuse children, that will have an impact. If you are the only one in the room to speak up and speak out for someone who is downtrodden and feels cut off and unloved, that will have an impact.


I think it's different for every person. For me, I want to make an impact and I plan to do that through getting a degree in Psychology and helping people and families.

When I really think about it, I don't feel a "responsibility" to anybody. I just see the hardships people experience and I want to be there for them just because I have compassion toward them.

By what I meant with the word, yes you do feel responsibility! Whether or not it's an obligation or a duty, hmmm, funny how I have literally never thought of that. I always thought of it in terms of an inner prompting -- that you are driven to respond.

Christa, if you see hardships and respond by wanting to be there, to offer help, support, presence, and if you act on that response, then that is social responsibility in action. It's all the more pure and profound for you being unaware of it.

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that might be the same thing. If you feel compassion for a stranger and want to help them, perhaps responsibility feels like the wrong word.... but at the same time I think it kinda fits.

That's exactly what I meant -- you feel it, you respond to it. You take action and you thus become responsible. Responsibility is not a burden; it is a strength.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

But since my name was mentioned, and my words quoted, here goes.

What I wrote to Jen was a conversation between the two of us, and in that context, when I wrote "our responsibility" I meant myself and Jen. It has to do with our personality type (or types, plural, but we are close in type). We each respond, in various ways, to the problems around us with a move towards reconciliation and positive growth.

If you think about the word responsibility, you probably tend to hear echos of parents and other elders talking drearily about duty and obligation. But if you listen to the word, you hear in it 'response' and 'ability.' When I referred to responsibility in addressing Jen yesterday, I spoke of that kindling in ourselves that makes us sensitive and willing to respond to society's need. In that sense, I was referring to a personality trait (inherited or learned) that involves a willingness to take action by 'responding. . . ' = response + able.





By what I meant with the word, yes you do feel responsibility! Whether or not it's an obligation or a duty, hmmm, funny how I have literally never thought of that. I always thought of it in terms of an inner prompting -- that you are driven to respond.

Christa, if you see hardships and respond by wanting to be there, to offer help, support, presence, and if you act on that response, then that is social responsibility in action. It's all the more pure and profound for you being unaware of it.




That's exactly what I meant -- you feel it, you respond to it. You take action and you thus become responsible. Responsibility is not a burden; it is a strength.

In this situation I never thought responsibility was a burden, it really is a strength. Responsibility to society is going to have a different meaning for each individual.

Zerbie, sorry that I didn't realize that you were referring to the two of us specifically. I feel that this is something good for everyone to think about. It just have different meaning for the two of us because of our nature.

As you mentioned (or at least the point you were trying to make??), it's about being aware of our impact on society. Whether our actions are honorable or not, they influence those around us. Therefore, we have a responsibility to society to tell the bank teller "Don't worry about it.", rather then yelling at them for their mistake. I think it's mostly about how we choose to handle ourselves, just being better people as a whole.

Any thoughts...?

[Zerbie]

I was contemplating a bit on two separate (though related) matters:

1. responsibility: ie. responding to society as we are able

and

2. power: that every individual has an impact. even those not considered 'powerful' impact those around them in all kinds of large and small ways, hence we all have far more power than we may have imagined.

The two can overlap, and you've already gotten into the overlapping in your post above. I think that recognizing our power makes us more responsive, more able, thus more responsible.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

I was contemplating a bit on two separate (though related) matters:

1. responsibility: ie. responding to society as we are able

and

2. power: that every individual has an impact. even those not considered 'powerful' impact those around them in all kinds of large and small ways, hence we all have far more power than we may have imagined.

The two can overlap, and you've already gotten into the overlapping in your post above. I think that recognizing our power makes us more responsive, more able, thus more responsible.

Hmm... I'm afraid you were right, I may have started a conversation that wasn't really a conversation at all. We may have hit a dead end already.

Sorry.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

Hmm... I'm afraid you were right, I may have started a conversation that wasn't really a conversation at all. We may have hit a dead end already.

Sorry.

No reason to be sorry.
Someone else may have things they would like to share on the topic.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

No reason to be sorry.
Someone else may have things they would like to share on the topic.

I hope so...

[Alecto]

I had a teacher in high school who would give a whole lecture every year about "the bars of the cage".

The general gist is that 90% of the people in this world do not see the bars of their cage. They do not want to be freed etc. You 10% out there DO, and more's the pity because there's a happiness-in-ignorance that will forever be denied to you because of it. And now, for the really screwed up part: YOU are responsible for the other 90%.

The phrasing and analogy is a bit clumsy with just what we're talking about with responsibility, but the truth is there's LOTS of different bars in society, and I can only see some of 'em, and I'm never going to get all the way through even one but I can pick one as my time and energy allows and file away best I can.

To answer the questions directly: Yes, I think once you see suffering or injustice, you have some responsibility to do something about it. It's just not even a choice to me: you can't unsee the bars of the cage, and I know I couldn't live with myself just pacing about inside the cage: I don't think one person can save the world, but perhaps he or she can save another person. Or a group of people. What fulfillment of that responsibility looks like is going to be different for everyone, and I think that's kind of the point because there's SO many different kinds of problems.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I had a teacher in high school who would give a whole lecture every year about "the bars of the cage".

The general gist is that 90% of the people in this world do not see the bars of their cage. They do not want to be freed etc. You 10% out there DO, and more's the pity because there's a happiness-in-ignorance that will forever be denied to you because of it. And now, for the really screwed up part: YOU are responsible for the other 90%.

The phrasing and analogy is a bit clumsy with just what we're talking about with responsibility, but the truth is there's LOTS of different bars in society, and I can only see some of 'em, and I'm never going to get all the way through even one but I can pick one as my time and energy allows and file away best I can.

To answer the questions directly: Yes, I think once you see suffering or injustice, you have some responsibility to do something about it. It's just not even a choice to me: you can't unsee the bars of the cage, and I know I couldn't live with myself just pacing about inside the cage: I don't think one person can save the world, but perhaps he or she can save another person. Or a group of people. What fulfillment of that responsibility looks like is going to be different for everyone, and I think that's kind of the point because there's SO many different kinds of problems.

After reading this, the following quote came to mind..
"A time comes when silence is betrayal." -Martin Luther King Jr.

Ignoring what is right in front of you, does not make it go away. So, by seeing those bars you are becoming aware on how you influence those around you.

I could say that by seeing those bars, or by seeing how I influence those around me, I will be able to see to get out of the cage.
Eh, I'm not getting very far with that concept, I tried though. Sorry.

I like what you're saying Alecto, I just don't think I fully understand.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I had a teacher in high school who would give a whole lecture every year about "the bars of the cage".

The general gist is that 90% of the people in this world do not see the bars of their cage. They do not want to be freed etc. You 10% out there DO, and more's the pity because there's a happiness-in-ignorance that will forever be denied to you because of it. And now, for the really screwed up part: YOU are responsible for the other 90%.

The phrasing and analogy is a bit clumsy with just what we're talking about with responsibility, but the truth is there's LOTS of different bars in society, and I can only see some of 'em, and I'm never going to get all the way through even one but I can pick one as my time and energy allows and file away best I can.

To answer the questions directly: Yes, I think once you see suffering or injustice, you have some responsibility to do something about it. It's just not even a choice to me: you can't unsee the bars of the cage, and I know I couldn't live with myself just pacing about inside the cage: I don't think one person can save the world, but perhaps he or she can save another person. Or a group of people. What fulfillment of that responsibility looks like is going to be different for everyone, and I think that's kind of the point because there's SO many different kinds of problems.

This is great! Would love more of this.

How did your teacher define the cage? Was he speaking existentially? Philosophically? Sociologically?

Your 90%/10% figures correspond exactly to something my husband often says to me. When I exclaim (as I do nearly daily) that I just can't understand the majority of people, my husband trots out those numbers and says that I belong to a 10% minority. He defines them as 'followers' and 'leaders,' putting the leaders in 10%. What he tells me is that I have a personality type that "should" be leading.

That was an interesting puzzler for me, because I had never considered leadership, and never considered myself as a leader. I think, because I had not thought about what leadership might mean. When I go back through my life history and decisions though, I can see a lifelong history of speaking out and telling those who were actually in positions of leadership, "This is what needs to be done. Here's why. Here's how."

I would be interested to see from Alecto how you, or your former teacher, might relate those 90-10 percentages, the 'cage', and the ideas of leadership and responsibility.

I love how you put it, that you can't 'unsee' the bars of the cage. That's true. That seeing results in responsibility (responsibility of the duty sort, this time, Jen and everyone) is very meaningful.

Remember, once you understand, you become responsible.

[christa08]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

By what I meant with the word, yes you do feel responsibility! Whether or not it's an obligation or a duty, hmmm, funny how I have literally never thought of that. I always thought of it in terms of an inner prompting -- that you are driven to respond.

Christa, if you see hardships and respond by wanting to be there, to offer help, support, presence, and if you act on that response, then that is social responsibility in action. It's all the more pure and profound for you being unaware of it.

I never thought of it like this. I always thought of responsibility as an obligation but I like to see it from this view much better.

I love how you put it, that you can't 'unsee' the bars of the cage. That's true. That seeing results in responsibility (responsibility of the duty sort, this time, Jen and everyone) is very meaningful.

I definitely agree with this. I love the way this is put.

[Alecto]

I wish the whole school was like that, but this particular teacher was more an exception than a rule. The only teacher I still talk to / hang out with (5 years out of graduation), that was the one room where no gay jokes would be ignored.

I think "the cage" was left deliberately vague, because it's like...we're the ones that can see that we're in a hurting world. What those hurts are, and how we see them, and how we think we might go about healing them are going to vary from individual to individual, and I think she saw that and was ok with that and wanted to be supportive of multiple emphases. Queer rights is obviously the direction I settled on, but other folks went into environmentalism for example. So I guess the cage is primarily societal, but there's definite tie-ins to the other things you bring up. I've heard her make reference to the metaphor in a spiritual sense too, so I think it's just an image that she likes that's fairly adaptive. As for leadership roles, I think that's exactly what she meant (though I could expound a bit on wider definitions of "leadership").

I threw the "unsee" part in because I went through a phase where I very literally tried to pretend things weren't all kinds of terrible. Because then I could be happy like everyone else. It doesn't work.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I wish the whole school was like that, but this particular teacher was more an exception than a rule. The only teacher I still talk to / hang out with (5 years out of graduation), that was the one room where no gay jokes would be ignored.

No surprises there. Insight is insight.

I think "the cage" was left deliberately vague, because it's like...we're the ones that can see that we're in a hurting world.

When I taught in a high school classroom, I told the sensitive, 'seeing' types that the world especially needs them.

What those hurts are, and how we see them, and how we think we might go about healing them are going to vary from individual to individual, and I think she saw that and was ok with that and wanted to be supportive of multiple emphases. Queer rights is obviously the direction I settled on, but other folks went into environmentalism for example.

You and me both. I remember thinking ending hunger and ending war seemed more pressing, except that those issues were easier for others to understand the need. It seemed to me that gay rights was in possibly the weakest position with the fewest advocates. I invested my entire heart into it. I have the utmost respect for those who go into other avenues of advocacy and healing, because ALL the contributions are so desperately needed.


So I guess the cage is primarily societal, but there's definite tie-ins to the other things you bring up. I've heard her make reference to the metaphor in a spiritual sense too, so I think it's just an image that she likes that's fairly adaptive. As for leadership roles, I think that's exactly what she meant (though I could expound a bit on wider definitions of "leadership").

Please do! I'm not sure we yet even HAVE a definition of leadership.
But you think your teacher may have meant the same 90-10 split my hubby refers to? I will have to ask hubby what he thinks of if I simply say 90% of people cannot see the cage and 10% can.
This could be great fun, and lead to new creativity and insight.


I threw the "unsee" part in because I went through a phase where I very literally tried to pretend things weren't all kinds of terrible. Because then I could be happy like everyone else. It doesn't work.

Ach, I can imagine. I knew I could not do it, did not even try.

When I was very young, I was an unhappy kid and that projected to those who met me. At 13 years of age, I did a show with a very understanding group of adults, one of whom was very gentle and reached out to me. At a group dinner one night he sat beside me and asked probing questions about why was I unhappy? I said because the world is unhappy.

He said, "But you! You're young, healthy, have a beautiful voice, you're a great actress, you're incredibly intelligent and a great writer. YOU have no reason to be unhappy." I told him, sure I can enjoy singing, and if life turns out great for me, if I have food to eat and I can sing and have friends and do fun things, I will enjoy that. But what good is it if my happiness is only mine? People around me have unhappiness. How can I enjoy my own happiness if the person beside me is struggling with deep unhappiness?

Who will be there to listen to their stories? Who will wipe their tears?

We cannot be fully happy unless there is an opportunity to begin turning the direction of these sorrows. If we can have a hand in steering the world towards a kinder, more equitable, more loving place, then we can be more fully joyful.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Ach, I can imagine. I knew I could not do it, did not even try.

When I was very young, I was an unhappy kid and that projected to those who met me. At 13 years of age, I did a show with a very understanding group of adults, one of whom was very gentle and reached out to me. At a group dinner one night he sat beside me and asked probing questions about why was I unhappy? I said because the world is unhappy.

He said, "But you! You're young, healthy, have a beautiful voice, you're a great actress, you're incredibly intelligent and a great writer. YOU have no reason to be unhappy." I told him, sure I can enjoy singing, and if life turns out great for me, if I have food to eat and I can sing and have friends and do fun things, I will enjoy that. But what good is it if my happiness is only mine? People around me have unhappiness. How can I enjoy my own happiness if the person beside me is struggling with deep unhappiness?

Who will be there to listen to their stories? Who will wipe their tears?

We cannot be fully happy unless there is an opportunity to begin turning the direction of these sorrows. If we can have a hand in steering the world towards a kinder, more equitable, more loving place, then we can be more fully joyful.

I'm starting to feel the same way, except it took me a little longer than it took you.

Where does that awareness leave you? I am happy, but I am also overly in-touch with the pain that others feel (and that of course is upsetting). I'm a hugger, every time I see someone in pain, I just want to hug them.