Judging others

[Emproph]

I judge a lot, I’m an angry person. And as I’ve said many times, I’m lousy at practicing non-violence. And I don’t like it, as I judge others I invariably judge myself for doing so - because I know better, and I strive to be better (or at least want to strive better).

Something happened a few weeks ago that has helped a bit, at least when I’m driving. I don’t know how long it will last, but for now, it’s one more tool in my arsenal.
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I went to Blockbuster and pulled into a parking spot across from the store -- so I had to walk across the parking lot driveway to get to the store. As I was getting out of my car, a white truck (like a blazer or Cherokee) stopped right behind my car and in my path.

As I was making my way to the store, I had to walk around the back of the truck to get there, and muttered to myself with self righteous indignance, “nice.”

I assumed that they were just rude - maybe they were running to drop off some videos in the outside slot. Whatever, I was convinced that they were self-absorbed rude people.

As I rounded the back of the truck and toward the store, I saw that two people were crossing in front of the truck, and that that was why they were stopped. I immediately inversed my negative thoughts about them, and realized that many of the judgments I make about drivers (and people in general) must be unfounded, because I don’t know what their situation is.

I remember another time when I was delivering pizzas, a car I was approaching was stopped in my lane for no apparent reason. As I got closer to them, I honked at them to let them know I was angry. In the process I switched lanes and saw that there was a car in front of them that was trying to make a left turn.

In drivers ed. class, I remember one part of a video they showed, where they suggested that a slow driver in front of you may just be looking for an address. And I’ve seen that happen, but it usually doesn’t cover other situations, like being cut off, or tailgaters.

Another time I was valeting at a restaurant, so I spent most of my time outside. And this one night there was a pigeon, who for whatever reason couldn’t fly, it was just walking around not quite knowing what to do. Finally, a van drove by and ran it over. I was furious. As I scooped up the body and threw it away, all the while I was thinking that the driver should have seen it, shouldn’t have been going so fast, etc.

As I was relaying the story to a friend (philosophical like me but much more pragmatic) later that evening, he suggested that maybe the driver had something important pending on his mind, and in an instant it made perfect sense, and I saw the error of my judgment.

The rest of the drivers are of course all sociopaths…lol

Seriously though, I’ve really taken to heart that last incident with the truck and not seeing that they were stopped to let the people cross in front of them. I don’t know how long this will last, but I’m trying to stretch it out by coming up with reasons why people may act the way they do. Maybe they had a bad day, or received some bad news, or are in pain, or are fearful of something, etc.

Point being, those who are truly without conscience are rare, so most likely there IS a salient reason for their poor behavior. I know I’ve crossed that line too many times to count. And when my self image sobers up, I’m appalled by what I’ve done or said, or didn’t do.

Anyway, I didn’t mean for this to become a thread, but I wanted to share that story, because it’s been really effective for me.

-Patrick

[Zerbie]

Patrick dear, you have spoken so eloquently about such a natural problem that you have drawn me (momentarily) back from vacation.

Let's look at a phenomenon I encounter daily in driving. Drivers making miscalculations in judgment. Today, it was actually me. That's not common for me, thank God.

Today, I miscalculated space. I thought I saw a lane by the median in the road where I was turning left, and thought I could hover there while I waited to get in the traffic flow. After I had already pulled into traffic, I discovered the 'lane' was just a visual distortion of road angle, and that I had put myself directly into someone's path who then had to veer like crazy. I felt awfully apologetic, and anxious about nearly causing an accident. Also, felt shocked by my misjudgment, as it is out of the norm for me, and took it as a warning that I was not processing attention as well as usual, so I strove to heighten concentration.

As I drove on, accident-free thanks to the other guy's swerve, someone did something stupid in front of me after I got on the freeway. I saved both our lives with my swerve (we were going close to 70). Was very irritated at him, and within about a minute, noticed the difference in interpreting the two situations.

When *I* made the miscalculation in judgment, it was a shocking anomaly, completely out of character and totally out of the ordinary. When *he* did it, it was out of complete disregard for everyone's safety, and completely within his character as someone with no concern for life at all.

I asked myself what accounted for the difference? Within seconds, the answer was obvious: *I* only make misjudgments like that with extreme rarity, and can count those miscalculations on my fingers. But OTHER people do those things ALL THE TIME. Every day. They *always* do. How come other people make serious mistakes constantly? why can't they be like me and only do it once in a very rare while?

That was when I finally got it. It's just a numbers game. There is only one of me. Say I make 1 mistake driving per year, like the mistake this morning. Let's now say there are 5 million people in this city and each of those 5 million makes 1 mistake per year. How many mistakes per day IS that? I'm sure it's a fair bit, but no I'm not taking the time to do the math.

The issue is, since I'm in a position to see all the other drivers around me at any given moment, the odds that I will see someone else make a misjudgment on any given day are prohibitive. This contributes to the impression that everyone else except for me is making extremely stupid dangerous mistakes on a constant basis, which is then why I perceive everyone else driving as complete morons incapable of my superior level of function. It's a sheer numbers game. Their constant incompetence is an illusion. (Except for those who text while driving - that's a guaranteed accident, possibly with fatalities.)

There is no possible way that we can be in a position to see all the permutations in traffic movement, or know which drivers are rushing an unconscious child to the ER, etc., so we are left with no basis for interpreting anyone else's behavior. We just have to trust that at least half the time, it is. The other 50% of the time, the driver is using a cell phone.

Patrick, we really have to take it on faith that the other person has a valid reason for stopping in the traffic flow/parking lot, etc., or else that there is a medical/psychiatric reason why their behavior does not make sense, in which case, they can't help it. It's not good, but if we know they can't help it, at least it removes motivation for getting angry or annoyed.

Judgment is a good thing when it serves a positive purpose. If it isn't serving a good purpose, it's in our way, and we might as well not pick it up. In the kind of examples you and I have cited, it serves no positive purpose, so it is best not engaged. Exercise the "well, maybe he knows what he's doing, maybe not, but I'm going to remain cheerful" muscle, instead.

Judgment is meant to help us make executive decisions, not to run our lives for us and hijack our emotions. If we give less of our attentional focus to silly judgments like those made spur of the moment in traffic, we will be calmer and happier. You probably won't be able to stop the judgments instantly. So just let them come and go without giving them any importance. If you just don't automatically BELIEVE the judgment you are thinking, it can't hijack the way you feel.

[tymejumper]

yes, Jester is still getting drivers training from me and I have had many people honk at her for not turning right on red and such. The driver in front can often see things that someone behind can not. I too am guilty of judging people and then seeing that I am the ass, not them! I guess that is the beauty of life, you get the test frist and the lesson after!

Extra credit is feeling really stupid about it for a long time

[Daniel]

So- I guess that means that I'm not judgmental, right?

However, if you come with me to Fairway (a well-known and rather crowded market) on a Friday afternoon, you might see me thinking the worst of people.

There are times when I am in there and nothing bothers me. Other times the slightest bump has my head ready to explode. What makes the difference?

My state of mind, of course.

It goes up. It goes down. Up and down. Down and up.

Ah....so that's the way it goes!

Perhaps a large part of this matter is simply watching what happens in the mind? Not easy by any means.

I guess that's why they call it spiritual practice. It's something one practices.

[scott snedeker]

I have come to learn from mindful awareness meditation that judging is a form of suffering. I have judged myself so long and so harshly that I even became adept at generalizing to others.

Judging is a darkly gratifying reaction to something that creates negative emotional vibrations within me. Letting go of judging myself and others means also letting go of this negative emotional vibration, otherwise my heart feels betrayed.

Judgementalism has been laquered in multiple layers on to my heart over decades. Release from this form of suffering has been at times sublimely self-evident and at other times impossible to achieve like being stuck in a sticky inescapable glue.

I have recently found release through Buddhist traditional meditation on my death. The "McMeditation" summary of it is: Since I am mortal, I am entitled to the freedom from suffering from this very moment to my last breath. I found this to create a very strong stable sense of entitlement to not suffer judging myself or others.

[Daniel]

Gottcha Scotty.

I somethings think of this mediation (in short hand) as the thought: so....you could-might-you-never-know -it's-possible-you-will-die tomorrow....what's reaaaaaaly important?

I have to encourage myself to think of this often.

[Jennifer5]

Yet another quote I love, but don't remind myself of enough:
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” -Plato

I got my permit Wednesday and I'm sure that I'll make a lot of stupid moves in the next couple weeks especially. Consider that others, like myself, are just learning and they feel stupid for making those mistakes but your anger towards them just makes it harder.

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

Yet another quote I love, but don't remind myself of enough:
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” -Plato

I got my permit Wednesday and I'm sure that I'll make a lot of stupid moves in the next couple weeks especially. Consider that others, like myself, are just learning and they feel stupid for making those mistakes but your anger towards them just makes it harder.

Driver beware! The pavement is a battleground!

[Dakota]

I'm judgmental and angry, too, and oftentimes I don't see the big picture, either. We must always make sure we pluck the log out of our eye first before we see the splint in our brother's eye. Not always easy, but I think we can do it.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

Driver beware! The pavement is a battleground!

Thanks
The pavement is a lot easier then the gravel road though. I keep wanting to go further, but mama's too scared.

[Emproph]

There’s much to respond to, so in the effort to catch everyone back, so I’m just going to pick out some of the more important/effective insights that have been said.

Originally Posted by tymejumper

I guess that is the beauty of life, you get the test frist and the lesson after!

That's priceless, that really resonates. It also helps take the guilt out of failures in exercising the Golden Rule -- as long as the lesson/failure is acknowledged and taken to heart.

I remember a news story from some time ago, about a cancer run, or some laudable cause. One of the women they interviewed relayed the story of a near death experience she’d had after a car accident.

She met her mother and aunt who obviously had both passed on. (And now that I think of it, they may have passed due to breast cancer, which was why this woman was running in the race) They of course wanted her to go back, and she said something like, ‘How can I go back? My body is so injured and I’ve made such a mess of my life.’ And they, or one of them responded, ‘Your body will heal, and we all spill milk, it’s how you clean it up that’s most important.’

That’s one of those sayings that has stuck with me, yours will be too.

Originally Posted by Daniel

I guess that's why they call it spiritual practice. It's something one practices.

Now that you say it like that, it makes a lot more sense. That’s what I’ve been doing lately, “practicing” how not to judge people. “Practicing” coming up with new reasons as to *why* certain people do the negative things they do that affect me. Not to project any particular circumstance onto them, but to realize that there IS a reason for their behavior.

I don't like to quote anti-gay theocrats, but Joyce Meyer once said: “Hurting people hurt people.” That’s another one that’s stuck with me, but up until this point, I’ve pretty much only applied it to understand my own rotten behavior.

She's such an effective preacher, but even she has admitted to sexual abuse, and was abandoned by her first husband.

Sometimes when you think you’ve dismantled all your illusions, it’s the slivers left behind that are so hard to see.

Of course she also worships the godess of mammon, but I digress. Maybe she was dirt poor in a past life...

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” -Plato

And so often that’s true. It's so easy to be compassionate when you can see, or know about someone's pain. Whether it’s permanent scars from childhood, to rich and famous celebrities who’s dirty laundry is paraded daily for all the world to see. I know, I have to work on reminding myself of what I don't see.

Also, congratulations on your permit, and for giving me another reason to not judge other drivers - maybe it’s their first time driving a car! Or the customer service representative, maybe it’s their first day / week etc.

You know, that brings up another point, if it’s done right, sometimes you can just ask. I remember one time when I was working at the video store in Chicago, a woman came in and needed something -- associated with the store -- and I was making a fuss about something unrelated, and she said something like ‘you seem kind of frustrated, can I get you a coffee or soda or something?’ And it really touched me and brought me back into the moment.

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

I have come to learn from mindful awareness meditation that judging is a form of suffering.

...sublimely self-evident...sticky inescapable glue.

Since I am mortal, I am entitled to the freedom from suffering from this very moment to my last breath. I found this to create a very strong stable sense of entitlement to not suffer judging myself or others.

Hey , If only sticky inescapable glue were currency…

A Course in Miracles says, “To have, give to all.” I guess that’s what I’m learning. To not suffer the fate of judging myself, I mustn’t judge others, they’re the same thing. I think I’ve always known this, but I haven’t had to tools to take it to heart.

Originally Posted by Dakota

I'm judgmental and angry, too, and oftentimes I don't see the big picture, either. We must always make sure we pluck the log out of our eye first before we see the splint in our brother's eye. Not always easy, but I think we can do it.

I once heard a preacher say that seeing the splint in our brother’s eye, IS the log in our own eye. That’s another one that’s stuck with me, but again, haven’t had the tools to apply it.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have an ocular redwood forest to extract…

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

Driver beware! The pavement is a battleground!

That reminds me of jay-walkers when I used to live in Milwaukee and Chicago: “GET OUT OF MY STREET!”

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Emproph

A Course in Miracles says, “To have, give to all.” I guess that’s what I’m learning. To not suffer the fate of judging myself, I mustn’t judge others, they’re the same thing. I think I’ve always known this, but I haven’t had to tools to take it to heart.

That is, taken it to heart. Otherwise, why post about it? Why think about it? If you hadn't taken it to heart, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

Speaking of taking things to heart, I've been practicing Tonglen, a Buddhist meditative practice for a while now. It embodies the CIM thought above: to have, give to all. I didn't start doing it to give to others. Rather, I started using it to ameliorate my own suffering. What suffering? Oh...having tinnitus...which I have previously posted about. It is the only thing, besides taking medication, that helps me get to sleep, or get back to sleep after I wake up. It gives me something to do besides focus on the sound in my head.

A very practical technique, Tonglen is about transforming suffering into blessing, light and radiance. Simple really.

What I have discovered/experienced doing it is that one starts to sense- to actually feel what CIM describes. What begins as mental training turns into something else. What have I experienced doing it?

We really do receive what we give.

If we give blessing, that is what comes back to us. If we 'give' judgment, we -in the end- only judge ourselves. What we give comes back to us. Practice- not just the thought of practice- reveals this in due time.

I sit in bed before sleep and practice Tonglen- breathing in darkness, goo, blackness, and then breathing out light, radiance and blessing- into and out of the heart. Over and over and over again. I first do this for myself, and then for others. Over time, I have experienced that the 'light' that I visualize as going 'out' from my heart to others is actually generating warmth and light which comes 'back' to me. As such, I have the sense that there is no 'in' or 'out'. The giver IS the receiver. They are one. That is the dominant - and actual- sensation of Tonglen practice. I actually get warm, sometimes quite warm around the heart, from this practice.

Of course, this is metaphysics.

I don't think about God much these days. Don't think about heaven or hell either. I don't even think about believing anything. But I do think about - and practice- extending to others what I know I need myself: radiance, love, light, blessing, acceptance. All the thing we want from lovers, husbands, wives, significant others, parents, co-workers, friends and relations.

This is what matters to me. And I think this is where the rubber meets the road.

There are many other practices like Tonglen, other tools, that help one experience this sense of giving and receiving. I guess the point here is not to think about it, but rather, to adopt some means to be the change we seek.

Centering Prayer, which could be viewed as the Christian equivalent of Buddhist Tonglen, has been practiced by monks for many centuries, and might be something to consider. I believe these practices amount to the same thing: the training of the mind and the heart to both give and receive as one.

[Emproph]

(You guys, I'm sorry for the obnoxiously long length, I know these can be thread killers )

Zerbie, thanks for your thorough and thoughtful response. Your advice/insights are always edifying.

I wanted to save you for last because I have something else to offer. Slightly off topic, but it ties in with the timing of your and my comments (plus it's another novel ).

Zerbie

Originally Posted by Zerbie

That was when I finally got it. It's just a numbers game. There is only one of me. Say I make 1 mistake driving per year, like the mistake this morning. Let's now say there are 5 million people in this city and each of those 5 million makes 1 mistake per year. How many mistakes per day IS that? I'm sure it's a fair bit, but no I'm not taking the time to do the math.

13,698.63

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Patrick, we really have to take it on faith that the other person has a valid reason for stopping in the traffic flow/parking lot, etc., or else that there is a medical/psychiatric reason why their behavior does not make sense, in which case, they can't help it. It's not good, but if we know they can't help it, at least it removes motivation for getting angry or annoyed.

Judgment is meant to help us make executive decisions, not to run our lives for us and hijack our emotions.

I love the way you put that last observation. Since posting this thread and reading through the responses, I’ve been trying to come up with different scenarios that would justify any type of rude/offensive/ mean behavior.

A few of the things I’ve come up:

-Child abuse, sexual and otherwise
-Divorced parents and/or lousy parenting
-Negative body image
-Guilt, for having harmed someone irreparably
-Seen violent death

You get the idea, and again, like I said to Daniel, it's not to project any particular circumstance onto them, but to realize that there IS a reason for their behavior. Even cell phone usage while driving. In the end, they’ll suffer from their own ignorance of dangerous behavior - in this life, or regret in the next.

Sometimes I think, karmically speaking, that’s why “good people” kill or injure others unintentionally, and then must live with the guilt of that for the rest of their lives, so they never ever forget the potentially dangerous consequences of their actions.
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On the positive side of that, there was one Touched by an Angel episode that dealt with parents who had lost their children to a drunk driver or something like that - it was unintentional, and the parents couldn’t understand why the man survived and either didn’t go to prison or was out of prison.

I think Monica, the main character angel, had helped the children over to the other side or something - she was related to the incident somehow. And then for some reason she ended up doing an interview with a reporter who wanted to exploit the story to vilify the man who’d killed the kids.

Monica of course was so gentle and patient in answering the reporter’s questions, avoiding all the ensnaring traps of a tabloid reporter.

I think the story was told in flashbacks, so we knew what the guy looked like. And when the “disappointing” interview was over, the reporter left the restaurant and went to cross the street just as a bus was speeding by, and a guy pulled her out of the way and saved her life.

I don’t know if the reporter knew it at the time, but the guy turned out to be the man who had killed the children.

I’ve seen that phenomenon in several movies now. Sometimes when bad things don’t happen -- worse things happen.
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To expound on the non-judgmental theme for a moment - to events as opposed to individual actions:

I call it divine allowance, as opposed to divine intervention. Like that time when 20 people died in Chicago in a stampede to get out of the building. The security sprayed mace on the crowd, they panicked, and all rushed for the main entrance to get out, unaware of the other exits. Plus the building was over maximum capacity. And then…

About a week later there was a fire in New Jersey that killed 100, injured 100, and about 100 got out unscathed. The building went up in flames in 3 minutes. Again, they all rushed for the main entrance, few of them knowing where the other exits were.

I believe New Jersey now has some of, if not the strictest regulations as far as exits, max capacity, etc., codes go. They were both nightclubs.

The nation learned a lesson that week, and it brought home the realization of how many horrific tragedies are avoided by hairs every day - divine intervention, but this time, they let it happen.
_____
And now for the timing thing I mentioned above, synchronicity is a better word. This is something I’d like to someday explore in a separate thread.

I'm addressing this to Zerbie, but it's meant for everyone.
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Though I’ve been wanting to for some time, I posted this thread on Friday 5-15-2009. Nine out of ten of my intended posts, I never get around to writing, or end up in whole on the cutting room floor. Even when they do make it, they’re never as simple and easy to write as this one was.

Your experience happened on the same day (hopefully my editing doesn’t disturb the context):

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Today, I miscalculated space…I had put myself directly into someone's path who then had to veer like crazy.

As I drove on…someone did something stupid in front of me…I saved both our lives with my swerve (we were going close to 70). Was very irritated at him, and within about a minute, noticed the difference in interpreting the two situations.

…we are left with no basis for interpreting anyone else's behavior.

Just over 24 hours later (5-16-09), James Van Praagh was on Larry King Live and had this to say (edited for brevity):

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Good evening. Good show tonight. Old friend James Van Praagh is with us…His new book is "Unfinished Business: What the Dead Can Teach Us". What the dead can teach us, James?

JAMES VAN PRAAGH, MEDIUM: About life.

KING: How?

VAN PRAAGH: Well, it's been 25 years, Larry, and for 25 years I have heard messages from spirits for so long about regret and about forgiveness, about guilt. It's information they want to impart upon the living. So the people in the world, in the earth, when they pass over they don't have to go through the regrets. They want them to live life in a way where they can live a joyful life and not have any regrets, not have any should'ves, would'ves or could'ves. Because there's so much regret when we pass over, wouldn't it be better to have that knowledge when we're living on the earth.

VAN PRAAGH: The messages that I've heard and it's changed people's lives and it's really a manual for how to go through guilt. When everyone dies there's always guilt and regret and so forth and we just want a way to get out of it.

VAN PRAAGH: The messages that I've heard and it's changed people's lives and it's really a manual for how to go through guilt. When everyone dies there's always guilt and regret and so forth and we just want a way to get out of it.

KING: What are some of the most important factors we need to address in living a life better. This help us ...

VAN PRAAGH: Forgiveness, number one. Forgive people. It's very important that people have to realize that people do certain things, they don't know why. But to sit in judgment of somebody, it's easy to judge somebody, but we don't know the motive behind why the act happened. You don't know someone - for instance, there was a situation, in the book I talk about this, girl was abused by her uncle and she was abused by him, why did he hit me? She couldn't trust men her whole life. Couldn't love men, why, why? We found out this man when he was young he was abused. Now she didn't know that until much later on in her life.

We never know the back story and it's important to know the back story but you have to forgive. Because you don't know why people go through certain things. You don't know a person till you stand in their shoes.

SUBJECTIVE COMMUNICATION

It is almost certain that between friends there is, at all times, a silent communication, a sort of unconscious mental conversation going on subjectively. When this rises to the surface of conscious intelligence, it is called mental telepathy. This communication with others is going on at all times, whether the conscious mind is aware of the fact or not. We are always receiving impressions that are more or less vague, and it is seldom that they come to the surface; but they are there nevertheless and are gradually building into our mentalities impressions and forms of thought that are unconsciously and silently perceived.

Beyond “between friends,” I think we pick up things from others who are on the same wavelength, and it’s my impression is that our thoughts contribute to the tuning in of that frequency / unconscious communication.

Without getting into it too much more, this was the best picture I could find to illustrate that concept, the rest were all diagrams.

Now fathom that, times this:

Click on it and you'll see a larger version of it, and you should be able to click on it again to get it to full size.

Over and out,

-Patrick

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Beyond “between friends,” I think we pick up things from others who are on the same wavelength, and it’s my impression is that our thoughts contribute to the tuning in of that frequency / unconscious communication.

I think we pick up on things from others period. I think Daniel is the one I was talking to recently about this kind of silent communication or feeling. My sister and I are like twins and a lot of our communication doesn't involve words, but I feel like I do that with most people. I feel that the most important connections are those you can feel, not forced words.

Patrick, and everyone, the next time you feel frustrated don't just think of a reason they may be doing what they're doing, but look at them. You may find that this person is really hurting, people do crazy things when they've just been hurt.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

Patrick, and everyone, the next time you feel frustrated don't just think of a reason they may be doing what they're doing, but look at them. You may find that this person is really hurting, people do crazy things when they've just been hurt.

I understand Jennifer, and I agree - I’ll work on that too. But sometimes all you’re capable of giving is the not judging part - I've been practicing though.

That said, I just watched this movie today called “Take,” with Minnie Driver. I wrote a post on it at my blog this morning, so most of this is the same as it appears there:

Take: Starring Minnie Driver and Jeremy Renner.

Not a bad drama. This is what I found interesting:

Most prisons will not allow victims to meet with their offenders.

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE is a worldwide effort that encourages victims and offenders to meet. The program forces offenders to give a face to their crime, to feel remorse, and to understand the true repercussions of their actions.

This year over 700,000 inmates will be released from prison. More than 50% will be re-incarcerated within 3 years.

Where Restorative Justice is allowed to work, the re-incarceration rate drops to as little as 8%.

There’s a lot more information on that @ www.TakeJustice.org

More @ www.restorativejustice.org

Trailer

Apparently she writes music and sings too. This played over the credits: Coming Back to Life.
__________
On a related note...

For the past few weeks, A pair of ducks had been making a lot of noise outside my window. A few days ago I finally had had it and chased them away. As I went back to see if there were any more ducks still there, I saw that she had been sitting on a clutch of eggs the whole time, and that they were mates! I was mortified.

Fortunately she’s back now, and the lesson was brought home again...this time by a duck.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Emproph

I understand Jennifer, and I agree - I’ll work on that too. But sometimes all you’re capable of giving is the not judging part - I've been practicing though.

What more could anyone ask for?

It's not always about succeeding, it's about giving it what you have to give.