Are there any Christians on this site anymore?

[awediot]

Originally Posted by Daniel

You really don't want to go there.

It should not be forgotten that the logo of this site has two people standing together, Gandhi and King. Gandhi, as I understand it, was a Hindu, and King was a Christian. East and West together- you might say.

I was attracted to the mission of Soulforce and felt that it had a place for me when I learned that one of the original ERiders- Herrin Haven- was a Buddhist. This formerly Pentecostal boy thought that he might fit in. And I've met some really wonderful people here, both online and in 3D.

I am disinclined to call myself a Christian these days. But I really don't think that it matters. I'm not interested in what the label on the jar is, but what's inside the container.

Are you disinclined because you do not like what the "Church" has done to the Gospel truth and do not want the baggage of the label? Or are you disinclined because you just really don't believe Jesus Christ was the begotten, singular Son of God who was sacrificed "for our sins", and resurrected in a miraculous triumph over death which paves the way for us?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Is an ultimatum most of us decidedly do not like being cornered with.

My solution for awhile was to believe I had discovered the "Spirit" and collective Truth of "Godness" all religions were just expressing in their own, culturally lovely way... All roads lead to Rome like spokes on a wheel... I became not just a Christian, but a Buddhist, a Taoist, Hindu, and Jew who could embrace the inspiration for Odin, Thor, Schrodinger's Cat and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They were all veneers. Everything and nothing was GOD, and realizing that was HimHerIt actualizing, manifesting from amoeba to Me, and you, and them (well not really the fundi type hold outs who kept preaching about falling and depravity and ruin of self-deification)... I hadn't abandon my childhood, dogmatic belief Jesus alone was the only Godman to walk the earth, I had recognized the Christ consciousness in all things and understood He was mostly just a symbol and pointer to our future selves... I was beyond being merely religious and over the boxing in of labels... I was part of God Itself.

I didn't so much shun the title of Christian, I transcended it... Those who insisted I actually describe the "believe me alone or go to Hell" ultimatum Christ hacked us in two with, were beneath me fear mongerers who I had a duty to enlighten... then it came crashing down in a blinding flash that made more sense than I could stand... But thats just me.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by awediot

I was beyond being merely religious and over the boxing in of labels... I was part of God Itself.

I didn't so much shun the title of Christian, I transcended it... Those who insisted I actually describe the "believe me alone or go to Hell" ultimatum Christ hacked us in two with, were beneath me fear mongerers who I had a duty to enlighten... then it came crashing down in a blinding flash that made more sense than I could stand... But thats just me.

Hello again, old friend.

If it is not too personal for you to share, would you consider telling us about the nature of the blinding flash and what it was that caused such a sea change in your perception? Why it meant what it did?

Regarding whatever has brought you back here again, I can only repeat that the internet is the internet: one site is as safe as any, and I know you have the thick skin to 'take' all manner of responses. I can only invite you to follow your inclination and if you feel tempted to share some thoughts here, you are most welcome to do so.

Some have mentioned before how this forum is in flux. Certainly. For me also it is. Once a fit like the proverbial glove, this forum has lost most interest and appeal for me. This is my first post in a month. I do not know how much I will be back in future. I am not sure whether the forum changed or whether I did: both, probably.

As for sharing your personal stuff with the environment of your conversation in flux, well how is that much different from the rest of life?

I am sure you are not the only conservative Christian who is gay, and while I can imagine how it might be difficult to find gay folks who share similar theology or similarly minded Christians who accept homosexuality or take you at your word for your personal truth, I also know you cannot be completely alone in this world. Not possible. There are others more or less like you, though none else with your precise uniqueness. That is what makes you such a joy and treasure, at the same time that relating smoothly with you is for us, on occasion, a bit difficult. I wouldn't say that if I did not know how already aware you are of that element of our collective online 'friendship.'

I would focus on the fruits of your relationships with other people rather than on the specifics of their credo. If there are things you appreciate, love, enjoy, respect about certain folk, then enjoy them. Live life. Then, when you do meet someone who really has a philosophical/theological complementarity with yourself, what a precious, dear companion and confidante you shall have. Not everyone need be your closest intimate, nor need everyone be relegated to a distance.


Anyway, feel yourself welcome.

[awediot]

There you are! I couldn't believe you hadn't posted in a month... I chalked it up your traveling (which I read a blurb about somewhere)... but guess not... You, Jen and Emproph (WHO'S BEEN IGNORING ME!!! ) Were the three I most wanted to see...so, cool. I really hope your doing great and life is good...

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Hello again, old friend.

If it is not too personal for you to share, would you consider telling us about the nature of the blinding flash and what it was that caused such a sea change in your perception? Why it meant what it did?

I will...I think I have around here somewhere...but it is a long story (more a testimonial), so give it time... Suffice it say for now that I realized I was doing exactly what the Bible vehemently warned about, and my life reflected it. I didn't like what I saw, nor really have any ground for what I was trying so hard to make true. Christ drew an uncompromisable line which singled Him out from any other religion we'd seen before, and I was trying to blur it; just like He said I would... A light went on and has just grown brighter and truer ever since. Some beliefs are absolutely incompatible. To think they could be all umbrella'd under some fluid, relative "Godness" took the very same blind faith I mocked Christians for. They are the odd man out. And they will soon know how we feel...

Regarding whatever has brought you back here again, I can only repeat that the internet is the internet: one site is as safe as any, and I know you have the thick skin to 'take' all manner of responses. I can only invite you to follow your inclination and if you feel tempted to share some thoughts here, you are most welcome to do so.

-K.

Some have mentioned before how this forum is in flux. Certainly. For me also it is. Once a fit like the proverbial glove, this forum has lost most interest and appeal for me. This is my first post in a month. I do not know how much I will be back in future. I am not sure whether the forum changed or whether I did: both, probably.

I noticed.

Why your new found disinterest? The battle over? The methods questionable? The philosophy uninspiring? -I'm really interested...

As for sharing your personal stuff with the environment of your conversation in flux, well how is that much different from the rest of life?

Uhm, sorry, ya lost me...???

I am sure you are not the only conservative Christian who is gay, and while I can imagine how it might be difficult to find gay folks who share similar theology or similarly minded Christians who accept homosexuality or take you at your word for your personal truth, I also know you cannot be completely alone in this world. Not possible.

I know there are quite a few who share my cerebral dissonance and hold to a nonexistent middle ground that both pisses off Christians and gays. I'm not active and angry enough for most queers, and they feel betrayed by my support of Christianity; and I'm way to heretical and faithless for most Christians (whether they know I'm unapologetically gay or not)... but whaaah, po' po' pitiful me... I wouldn't change it if I could.

There are others more or less like you, though none else with your precise uniqueness. That is what makes you such a joy and treasure, at the same time that relating smoothly with you is for us, on occasion, a bit difficult. I wouldn't say that if I did not know how already aware you are of that element of our collective online 'friendship.'

I discovered I make one rotten cyber friend. Hot and cold, intimately concerned, then demonstrably aloof, and that is not fair to the types of people who are drawn to me and quickly seek virtual friendships (long stories too)

As far as 'relating smoothly'... heh heh heh... This is what Diane, the V.P. right hand madam and Queen moderator on CARM said to me a couple months ago (in a glaring, uber forbidden personal attack that dripped in hypocricy and power tripping) >

"Not only are you lacking common sense....I am convinced you should be hospitalized as borderline psychotic.....FACTS....I am about ready to remove several trolls from this forum, and YOU are the leader."

So the wrong way rub isn't limited to this site (see, I piss off both Christians and queers pretty equally)

I would focus on the fruits of your relationships with other people rather than on the specifics of their credo. If there are things you appreciate, love, enjoy, respect about certain folk, then enjoy them. Live life. Then, when you do meet someone who really has a philosophical/theological complementarity with yourself, what a precious, dear companion and confidante you shall have. Not everyone need be your closest intimate, nor need everyone be relegated to a distance.

I fear for people's souls Zerb. I see how false beliefs are causing great and unnecessary harm by the actions they inspire... I'm not seeking affirmations or companionship or extra heavenly crowns. I see a source of excess pain and a solution to it, and that compels me to try and address it with this little light o' mine. .. The venues I engage in are populated with people who typically want to get to the bottom of credos and belief systems, philosophy and theology, and how they play out in real life. This isn't the Jonas Brothers website

The internet is nearly a catalyst for an evolutionary leap. Nothing we've ever encountered will so fundamentally alter our lives and social structure, and we're just now getting a hint of what it going to do to us. "Awediot" is Dean turbo-charged, and I've been given medium, an audience of minds to feed from and influence and the capacity to change and be changed by strangers I will never meet... and then I log off and do what we do...

Anyway, feel yourself welcome.

Honestly, I don't. But I feel a purpose here for the time being, and that outweighs being liked... This is a way to see and analyze the agenda and motives and means of those I, and you, will be held guilty of by association... So is CARM to me... I'm not a marcher or protester or group prayer. I'm not a good hand on activist, so I seek out the leaders and think tank homes and suggestable members where they go to regroup... This is activism.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by awediot

Are you disinclined because you do not like what the "Church" has done to the Gospel truth and do not want the baggage of the label? Or are you disinclined because you just really don't believe Jesus Christ was the begotten, singular Son of God who was sacrificed "for our sins", and resurrected in a miraculous triumph over death which paves the way for us?

Nope.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Is an ultimatum most of us decidedly do not like being cornered with.

Perhaps an ultimatum for you, but not for me. I don't see it that way.

My solution for awhile was to believe I had discovered the "Spirit" and collective Truth of "Godness" all religions were just expressing in their own, culturally lovely way... All roads lead to Rome like spokes on a wheel... I became not just a Christian, but a Buddhist, a Taoist, Hindu, and Jew who could embrace the inspiration for Odin, Thor, Schrodinger's Cat and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They were all veneers. Everything and nothing was GOD, and realizing that was HimHerIt actualizing, manifesting from amoeba to Me, and you, and them (well not really the fundi type hold outs who kept preaching about falling and depravity and ruin of self-deification)... I hadn't abandon my childhood, dogmatic belief Jesus alone was the only Godman to walk the earth, I had recognized the Christ consciousness in all things and understood He was mostly just a symbol and pointer to our future selves... I was beyond being merely religious and over the boxing in of labels... I was part of God Itself.

Solutions. I have more questions than answers. And my burning need to have things figured out is a relic of my 20's. Right now I experience 'not knowing'. These two words probably mean something different to you. For me they mean doing something rather than moving the mental furniture around. I don't concern myself with belief per se. I don't find it to be helpful at all.

I didn't so much shun the title of Christian, I transcended it... Those who insisted I actually describe the "believe me alone or go to Hell" ultimatum Christ hacked us in two with, were beneath me fear mongerers who I had a duty to enlighten... then it came crashing down in a blinding flash that made more sense than I could stand... But thats just me.

I have to say that I don't concern myself with questions of how I fit in or not with conservative Christians, or Christianity for that matter. Perhaps that is a result of what I've learned from Buddhists. They aren't much concerned with what one calls oneself. They are more concerned, however, with what one does. And that seems a very practical and prescient frame of mind. What does one do? Many things. Among them, generating compassion, for one's self and for others.

I could have been born in Iran and be a Muslim right now. To me, that is more a reality than whether Jesus is the son of God and the ticket to heaven.

[awediot]

See, we went there... not too painful, eh?


I'm not here to convert anyone, Daniel...

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by awediot

See, we went there... not too painful, eh?

A comment a therapist might make, absent the last four words.

[awediot]

Originally Posted by Daniel

A comment a therapist might make, absent the last four words.

Been told a couple times I should be one; or see one... always in the same breath.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by awediot

There you are! I couldn't believe you hadn't posted in a month... I chalked it up your traveling (which I read a blurb about somewhere)... but guess not... You, Jen and Emproph (WHO'S BEEN IGNORING ME!!! ) Were the three I most wanted to see...so, cool. I really hope your doing great and life is good...

Thank you, old buddy. Life is wonderful.


I will...I think I have around here somewhere...but it is a long story (more a testimonial), so give it time... Suffice it say for now that I realized I was doing exactly what the Bible vehemently warned about, and my life reflected it.

You were 'doing' what the Bible warned about????

I didn't like what I saw,

Then I am glad you changed some things and found a path that is right for you.





I noticed.

Why your new found disinterest? The battle over? The methods questionable? The philosophy uninspiring? -I'm really interested...

No such things at all.

It is not my time to be here much, that is all. This is not a time for activism for me, nor is it much of a time for socialization. It is an inward time.


I know there are quite a few who share my cerebral dissonance and hold to a nonexistent middle ground that both pisses off Christians and gays. I'm not active and angry enough for most queers, and they feel betrayed by my support of Christianity; and I'm way to heretical and faithless for most Christians (whether they know I'm unapologetically gay or not)... but whaaah, po' po' pitiful me... I wouldn't change it if I could.

Nay, and ya should not.
However, I doubt "most" queers would really demand you be 'angry' (good heavens, what a useless way to be) or even to be politically active. It is a minority of LGBTs who are politically active. Cannot speak to the "Christian" side of the coin, I suppose it depends upon how narrowly you define "Christian," as there are thousands who consider themselves Christian who will stand up for their gay brothers like you.

I think you need to go out and meet some less polarized acquaintances. You have been hanging out with either a fairly far left crowd, or a quite far to the right crowd, and lamenting the dissonance. Most Americans are somewhere in the middle - get out of the apologist and activist communities for a few months and explore the variety of personalities in the middle.


I discovered I make one rotten cyber friend. Hot and cold, intimately concerned, then demonstrably aloof, and that is not fair to the types of people who are drawn to me and quickly seek virtual friendships (long stories too)

Also an accurate description of your associations -- you are drawn to the CARM religionists, to the angry atheists, to the far left crowd, in alternation. I believe you would find solace by balancing your life out with more of the middle crowd. The middle ground is not boring, Awediot, it is balanced.

Before I leave this conversation, I must add that I will never describe you as "rotten." You will cringe to read this, yes, but you are dear and lovable.
Yes, you are alternately hot and cold, etc., just as you write above. That has been your way, that's all. If you dislike it, then change it. Otherwise, accept it. Your friends already have.



As far as 'relating smoothly'... heh heh heh... This is what Diane, the V.P. right hand madam and Queen moderator on CARM said to me a couple months ago (in a glaring, uber forbidden personal attack that dripped in hypocricy and power tripping) >

"Not only are you lacking common sense....I am convinced you should be hospitalized as borderline psychotic.....FACTS....I am about ready to remove several trolls from this forum, and YOU are the leader."

This is very silly, and goes way beyond the bounds of online communication between strangers. A complete stranger cannot make a psychiatric diagnosis - online!
Dean, imo, that 'community' at CARM is not worth your time.



So the wrong way rub isn't limited to this site (see, I piss off both Christians and queers pretty equally)

Again, find the middle ground. It is larger than the two extremes where you have been spending so much of your time.


I see how false beliefs are causing great and unnecessary harm by the actions they inspire...

Yes.


Honestly, I don't. But I feel a purpose here for the time being, and that outweighs being liked... This is a way to see and analyze the agenda and motives and means of those I, and you, will be held guilty of by association... So is CARM to me... I'm not a marcher or protester or group prayer. I'm not a good hand on activist, so I seek out the leaders and think tank homes and suggestable members where they go to regroup... This is activism.

Let yourself be welcome here. Allow yourself that, Dean. You need not be relegated to the role of Outsider. You have people here who love you and would not seek to change you. Perhaps you also have at CARM.

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by awediot

Thanks for the reply Gennee.

One thing about Christians is they will first just say "yeah, I am...", as though they all know exactly what is being asked and do not have to initially think about the answer... Then they may elaborate and qualify on their affirmative...but the term itself is most importantly an affirmation that doesn't care what this world has done to, nor thinks about it...

~I am too... A rotten, freakishly conservative, hypocritical, way to nonjudgmental, reluctant and blessed Christian who chose to be so, no more than I chose to be gay... Sadly, I am disillusioned by the orthodox/fundamental church that are my brethren who I'm meant to know forever, and often feel shame at the association the label brings. There are more liberal, loving and understanding congregations who radiate spiritual fruits that the mainstream mostly just judges others by... Many refuse to even believe such creatures as us can exist. I am a heretic to them and I may darken their Churches door, but I cannot join, nor so much as break bread with them... I've told many "so don't call me a Christian..." It doesn't change what I believe or who I am...

I am torn between recoiling away from the gay community as I am from what passes as the Christian Organized Religion... I am...just trying to figure out SoulForce again... Who are they, and what do they want, and can I ever call them "we", as I used to feel like doing. ~That God has ensured my knowledge, belief and faith not hinge on men, is a gift I am barely beginning to let myself appreciate.

Awediot, Jesus would be repelled by what passes as 'Christianity' today. It was organized religion that was at odds with him and eventually killed him. I understand how you feel because I've many gay people who feel as you do.

If I know anything it's this; God loves you as you are. I am a Christian who happens to be transgender. Two of the greatest events in my life were asking Jesus to come into my heart and coming out as a transgender person.

Awediot, it upsets me when the bible is used to bash gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people. I have responded in op-eds and articles because I can't sit back and let it happen.

I will be praying that God will give you guidance during this time in your life. If you wish to PM me, feel free to do so.

Gennee

[baumgrenze]

Originally Posted by awediot

hi John...it is nice to meet you... I'm 44, a strangely conservative, comfortably heretical Christian since I can remember, who happens to be gay...

~I've got a squirming can of worms I'm feeling compelled to open about and on this forum. It is clearly not a Christ centered site or discussion board (not that there's anything wrong with that)... I thought it was when I first came here, but found it to be more ecumenical, "Spiritual but not religious" and deeply entrenched in "New Age", polytheistic thought and hopes... (I could and will go on at some point...)

Not to steal away the dwindling membership (like, where is everybody?), but you may really enjoy GCN - The gay Christian network site and forum. It is much more geared toward the unique issues surrounding homosexuality and Christianity, and is not so much politically/activist motivated, as theologically and philosophically. (it is also much larger and more active) (I'm "Gamel" over there...and my real name is Dean)

~I'm happy to have met you, and even though a straight, 70 year old man can't really "get" the whole queer experience, your obvious empathy, open mindedness and under-appreciated wisdom will more than make up for the flaw of your heterosexuality ...


I agree in principle, but have some block on petitioning for prayer chains and the like... Prayer is a very interesting topic in general... maybe a new thread on it specifically...

See ya around, and thanks for the ... AND mutual perspective... hope to see ya at GCN.

Dean,

Here are a few links you might want to explore. They involve Evangelicals Concerned Western Region (ECWR) and Evangelicals Concerned, Inc. If you've said where you live, I've lost track of that. ECWR has meetings in a few places on the west coast:

http://www.ecwr.org/ecwr-online-comm...al-groups.html

There are currently groups meeting in Seattle, San Diego, Denver, and San Francisco-East Bay, and Pasadena. Once a year there is a general summer gathering; the 2009 Connection is in July:

http://www.ecwr.org/connection-2009/...home-page.html

The original, parent organization in in New York:

http://www.ecinc.org/Calendar/eventcal.htm

EC in New York City conducts a weekly Bible study each Friday evening from 6:30 - 8:00 p.m.

They have a spring gathering. The one for 2009 took place in May.

http://www.ecinc.org/Connections.htm

If you do nothing else, open the home pages and look at the newsletters, etc. I think you could find like-minded people in this community. There is a forum, but it appears to have too small a quorum to be dynamic.

If it is in reach, you might consider showing up for one of the Connection gatherings. I still treasure the experience I had at the one in Tacoma in 1999. It worked for me, the flaw of my heterosexuality notwithstanding. Remember, I didn't chose it, it was a gift from God, just like your homosexuality. The Holy Spirit was present in a tangible way the whole time, but was overwhelmingly present at the chapel/communion service on Sunday morning.

God bless your walk with Him,

John

[awediot]

Originally Posted by kara speltz

First of all, I have to very much disagree with your statement that "Christians just say "yeah, I am...", as though they all know exactly what is being asked and do not have to initially think about the answer..."

"Are you a Christian? Please speak up." Should not be loaded question... It is a very simple one that of course anticipates the "define what you mean by Christian" response... I actually wanted to see how people would define their views of Christianity... Most Christians I know would give a simple, maybe refined "yes", and then them self elaborate a bit on what that meant to them

I was born and baptised into the Roman Catholic Church, long, long before I came out as a lesbian. I do not believe you can generalize the way you did about Christians. We're all very different, depending on our upbringing and our specific "brand" of Christianity. What gives you the right to "define a Christian"?

Someone said depends on my definition, and so I told them what it was, expecting it to be taken as my own personal opinion on the matter, not an official, from on high revelation.

My definition was:

"Typically a Christians believes in the one of a kind divine nature of Jesus Christ, that His death was the sacrifice we can accept as the price owed for our sins, making Him "The Savior", that He rose from the grave, ascending to His Father's (God's) side, and that He will return as Lord over the new Earth."

Is that radically different from the basic understanding of what defines us a Christians? ...of course their are differences and variations on the theme, but "Jesus was a good guy" we both know doesn't cut it.

That sounds like what Falwell and his ilk do. And why think from a perspective of "we/they"? By your very definition you've excluded Mel White, our founder, who defines himself as a follower of a Jewish carpenter, and has a very hard time with calling himself a Christian. Why the need to exclude? Doesn't the world have enough exclusion already?

I'm interested in who calls them self a Christian around here because we will have certain things in common and share a perspective... By all means critique my definition, but please don't presume to know my motives or goals... I have a difficult time being associated with "Christians" to. I can explain why in a sentence or two... If people are divided and "excluded" on theological lines, talking about it is the adult, edifying thing to do. It isn't exclusionary, it is just discussion.

I've been part of Soulforce from the beginning, and we've always striven to be a multi-faith organization. It was predominantly Christian, but never solely Christian. I'm always grateful to my non-Christian friends for teaching me to be more inclusive in my thinking. Now thanks to them, I end my prayers with, "we pray this in your many names."

I'm an out lesbian at my parish and I preach, so I'm still Catholic because I've found a really welcoming community. If I hadn't, who knows..... While I am still a follower of that Jewish carpenter, there is much within the Christian churches that I find abhorent and do not support.

It is this ecumenical vision I am curious about... Is pantheism the driving philosophy and "religion" governing this site and SoulForce's actions? ~As a Christian, that is an incompatible and false belief I not only cannot support, but am called upon to oppose... Just because I have issues with many Christians and what passes for the Church these days, does not mean I have those same ones with God. I understand why we were warned away from false teachings, and know that the all inclusive, Universalist philosophy is okay as a social club or dinner party, but as a motivator for changing the world, it was clearly and blatently described as in opposition to the one true God... It's pretty much Bible 101.

At 72, I've come to understand that there is no black, no white, but various greys that reflect the diversity of the world.

Kara

Absurd... Are you advocating moral relativism?

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by Daniel

They are more concerned, however, with what one does. And that seems a very practical and prescient frame of mind. What does one do? Many things. Among them, generating compassion, for one's self and for others.

Perhaps that is what Jesus (as teacher) meant by many of the sayings attributed to him.

I could have been born in Iran and be a Muslim right now. To me, that is more a reality than whether Jesus is the son of God and the ticket to heaven.

The Qu'ran itself contains stories of divine origin. Consider Ghaflah as a Buddhist concept. (Apply it to anyone and everyone.)

Ben N. Moore

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by awediot

"
Absurd... Are you advocating moral relativism?

Aren't you?

Judeo-Christian morality is RELATIVE to the Judeo-Christian faith.

Some of us aren't following that one but we're not calling you wrong.

If the Kingdon of Heaven is within you why look someplace else?

I'll just go along with Jesus and let it be done unto me as I believe.

How big is your Infinite?

Ben N. Moore

[awediot]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

Aren't you?

Judeo-Christian morality is RELATIVE to the Judeo-Christian faith.

Some of us aren't following that one but we're not calling you wrong.

If the Kingdon of Heaven is within you why look someplace else?

I'll just go along with Jesus and let it be done unto me as I believe.

How big is your Infinite?

Ben N. Moore

No black or white?

Please, give me an example where raping a woman or abusing a child isn't black...

[Zerbie]

((((((( Dean )))))))

{{{{{{{{{ Dean }}}}}}}}}

[awediot]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

((((((( Dean )))))))

{{{{{{{{{ Dean }}}}}}}}}

What?

A hug in lieu of an answer is just condescending.

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by awediot

No black or white?
Please, give me an example where raping a woman or abusing a child isn't black...

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with what Kara was saying so I'll skip it. In my opinion you are guilty of the same moral relativism that you're accusing Kara of. Others may feel differently including you.

I freely admit I have an attitude problem with any homo (Male/Female) that would call themselves conservative.

I don't love you any less. I just don't want anything to do with you.

Alright queen?

Ben N. Moore

[awediot]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with what Kara was saying so I'll skip it. In my opinion you are guilty of the same moral relativism that you're accusing Kara of. Others may feel differently including you.

I freely admit I have an attitude problem with any homo (Male/Female) that would call themselves conservative.

I don't love you any less. I just don't want anything to do with you.

Alright queen?

Ben N. Moore

Kara is free to clarify if she'd like...


Interesting definition of "love" you must have...

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by awediot

Kara is free to clarify if she'd like...


Interesting definition of "love" you must have...

I said that I have a problem. I own it, it's mine. If I catch myself getting judgemental and conditional then I need to back off or just opt out.

Peace.

Ben N. Moore

[awediot]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

I said that I have a problem. I own it, it's mine. If I catch myself getting judgemental and conditional then I need to back off or just opt out.

Peace.

Ben N. Moore

"Studying for the ministry in my chosen faith."... Ben N. More

" ...I just don't want anything to do with you." ... Ben N. More

I understand the conflict I represent to people...especially passionate, activist types...and I know the defensive mechanisms well... You probably have as stereotypical view of me, as "conservatives" do of you...

Rise above it...