News from an Evangelical Magazine that affects we gays

[peoplegottabefree]

anyone interested...check out these 2 links ....they are from an evangelical christian magazine called "Charisma"....it should be called the Christian National Enquirer in my opinion...but that's beside the point... just to give you a taste that unfortunately the religious right is far from dead...rather we...as usual ....are once again the focus of their rallying cry to circle the wagons and call up the troops for battle... when i was a pastor i used to like this magazine...now i get sick just looking at it's website....

[keltic63]

sometimes, in the interest of activism, we forget the guidelines that are in place.

Originally Posted by Guidelines

Anti-gay material of our adversaries

Originally Posted by Guidelines

Neither links to, nor quotes taken from, the anti-gay material of our adversaries will be allowed in the public forums unless the member making the post also invests the time to confront the untruth in the material. For a good example, see this thread. Posts that do not follow this guideline will either be moved to the Foyer or removed entirely at the moderator's discretion. The purpose of this guideline is to prevent casual postings of anti-gay material (i.e. a couple of sentences followed by a link to offensive writings.)

[peoplegottabefree]

sorry dude, i didnt know about that ...didnt mean anything bad by it...

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by peoplegottabefree

sorry dude, i didnt know about that ...didnt mean anything bad by it...

thanks. I know you didn't mean to break that rule. It's easy to find that kind of material and want to share how bad it is with others. We don't like that to be available from our site. Some folks who are just coming out of the closet might be driven back in by some of that stuff.

[Rick336]

I Googled "Charisma" that peoplegottabefree was referring to and read the article about Exodus International merging with that other ex-gay organization. The article said:

"The compassionate truth of the gospel is still the hope of the world today," said Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International. "Together, we hope to advance a new era in the global Christian church that is defined by God's truth as well as His heart for hurting individuals experiencing confusion and conflict about their sexuality."

Really? The gospels are the guide for compassionate truth? Let's read from the book of Exodus (from which the ex-gay organization was named) and get an idea about this "compassionate truth" the President of Exodus believes "is still the hope of the world today.”

Exodus 21:20-21 "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."


Feel the love.


Rick

[peoplegottabefree]

that was my point.....i went thru 8yrs of that (*&*(%$% called "reform therapy" it was 8 yrs of hell and after being an evangelical charismatic pastor for 15yrs i understand full well how much "love" they are feeling. not much.

i think that alot of people are making a big mistake by believing that the religious right are out of the game after this last election and after all of the recent religion related scandals...i keep a close track on their websites and it appears that although they may have had the wind knocked out of them...they are not out of the fight...they don't work that way....they regroup...find a new rallying cry...raise money...even go under the radar for a while if they have to..but they will be back stronger than ever in the future...and if they have their way about it they will use us to do it...case in point...their vociferous uproar against gay marriage in california and elsewhere...

the question is whether or not society has changed enough in the last 20yrs so that their cries of "alarm" about the gay community will fall on deaf ears or whether it will still have the effect they desire..

i am afraid that the prejudice against us hasn't decreased that much and although their cries won't alarm as many people it will still serve to stir up a certain degree of fear and in doing so help them...

i am not convinced at all that negotiating with their tv preachers or mega churches is going to have any lasting positive effect other than good PR moments... the tv preachers and mega churches are not going to risk losing their financial base to accept us no matter what they may feel personally... look at what happened to jay bakker when he came out in favor of us and of gay marriage..and also at the case of gene robinson and the episcopal church.... they lost alot of members and financial support and were basically sidelined and ostracized by the majority of the so called "body of christ".

as a former pastor who used to be one of these evangelicals...i believe that what will work to advance the cause of gay rights would be a 2 pronged approach to the situation... which would be use the same methodology that they used to elect bush twice... under the radar approach...reaching out to the people in the pews, bypassing their leaders (who are not going to do anything to make waves with their donors) in effect changing public opinion from within ... the other approach would be to do it thru affecting public opinion in the public arena totally bypassing the church or christians...making it a non religious issue... .because a large part of america doesn't go to church regularly anyway...and they vote too.

sorry if i sound pessimistic, but i was one of them for too long, and i also worked at a mega church and hob knobbed with some of these tv preachers and i know that we are wasting our time negotiating with them...100% they will turn right around and use the fact that they met with us to create a money raising ploy because they are making "inroads for the Gospel" into the gay community praise God....so give till it hurts..."

john hagee is a good case in point...the man has had more scandals swept under the carpet than jimmy swaggart had secret mtgs at hotel rooms in baton rouge....he is cunning, crafty and clever and a master at manipulating public opinion and will eventually find a way to use meetings with him to make him look good as if he is reaching out to "save" us. he'll call on his followers to "storm heaven for our poor lost souls" and will pad his coffers with new outreaches to "save us"... we don't need saving...he does..

sorry for sounding pessimistic about all of this but i just am not convinced that meeting with these super star "christian leaders" is going to change anything... the meetings that happen with the people in the pews during the meetings with the leaders is likely mre fruitful. especially these meetings at the christian universities that soulforce is doing...that has the ability to affect a new generation...that has much more possibility especially for encouraging any undercover gay students at these universities...

[Daniel]

When daddy beats you, it hurts him more than it hurts you.

Originally Posted by gottabefree

the question is whether or not society has changed enough in the last 20yrs so that their cries of "alarm" about the gay community will fall on deaf ears or whether it will still have the effect they desire..

I think this is the key question too.

My sense is that we are reaching the point of no-return. In fact, we may have reached it already. I'm not saying that DOMA is going to be overturned tomorrow, or that every state is going to have gay marriage right away, but my sense is that the genie is out of the bottle ans there is no way to him back.

I expect to opposition of fight harder now. However, that doesn't mean that they are going to get anywhere in the long run. Did they try to re-vive sodomy laws after the Supremes struck them down. Nope.

Time is against the opposition. Younger people don't think twice about gay people having civil rights. They roll their eyes at the issue as if to say "What's the big deal?"

That's the future. And it scares the fundies. And they should be scared. They are losing their choke hold on determining who people can love.

[peoplegottabefree]

When daddy beats you, it hurts him more than it hurts you......

you obviously never been beaten by your mother and father...or you would know...its not true

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by peoplegottabefree

When daddy beats you, it hurts him more than it hurts you......

you obviously never been beaten by your mother and father...or you would know...its not true

I was being ironic. My point was that conservatives often act as if punishment is good for the soul. To rationalize the pain one gives another human being is madness.

[peoplegottabefree]

you are right ...i did miss the point..i am not good with irony...sorry bout that