ELCA Decisions in Minneapolis, 8/21/09

[baumgrenze]

I urge anyone genuinely interested in what has been going on in Minneapolis this week to listen to the closing remarks of the presiding bishop of the ELCA, Mark S. Hanson. If you have the time, try listening to his remarks at the news conference that followed the day's deliberations. They can be found
here:

http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-T.../Webcasts.aspx

There is a place for the GLBT community in the church and it is growing. I understand that for some it is not easy to listen to those who counsel active patience. I was encouraged by Bishop Hanson's plea to be in dialog with those who differ with us. It helps them to know who we really are and to learn to embrace us. At the same time we need to thank those who have worked so hard against rejection in the past for what they have accomplished this day.

baumgrenze, an evangelical PFLAG dad

[BruceChris]

The first vote was close, but things got better as the day went on.

BC

[Pablo Rafael]

I had mentioned earlier in the thread about the Episcopal General Convention that I thought the ELCA would soon follow in opening their doors fully to LGBT individuals. I hadn't expected it this soon, however. It is great news.

And whereas people often think of Episcopalians as far left liberals, the Lutherans are generally regarded as more conservative. It is good to see the grace of God extended to all people in both denominations. And it also makes sense since the ELCA and Episcopal churches are in altar and pulpit fellowship with each other.

I did listen to Bishop Hanson's remarks. He used the Bible and applied it to all sides and situations in the discussion, a very Lutheran trait.

Now who will be next...

[baumgrenze]

May God speed the day that the Presbyterian Church USA follows suit. May they be led by the Holy Spirit to do it in the spirit outlined by Bishop Hanson yesterday.

Let us remember these words of our Lord and Savior.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me." John 17: 20-21

baumgrenze, an evangelical PFLAG dad

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

I had mentioned earlier in the thread about the Episcopal General Convention that I thought the ELCA would soon follow in opening their doors fully to LGBT individuals. I hadn't expected it this soon, however. It is great news.

And whereas people often think of Episcopalians as far left liberals, the Lutherans are generally regarded as more conservative. It is good to see the grace of God extended to all people in both denominations. And it also makes sense since the ELCA and Episcopal churches are in altar and pulpit fellowship with each other.

I did listen to Bishop Hanson's remarks. He used the Bible and applied it to all sides and situations in the discussion, a very Lutheran trait.

Now who will be next...

It's important to understand that this victory was 20 years in coming. Resistance to the requirement that LGBTs sign a vow of celibacy began when a small group of people in the Bay Area of California, recognized the inequality of that requirement. They decided that it was time to start ordaining gays and lesbians who would not sign the vow and did so 20 years ago this month. Jeff Johnson, Ruth Frost and Phyllis Zillhart were the first to be ordained extraordinaire, at St. Francis Lutheran. That church was promptly expelled. But the movement couldn't be stopped. I believe there have been extraordinaire ordinations of some 50-60 pastors since then. The ELCA expelled some churches and tried to work with and/or ignore others.

It was this act of resistance that started the chain of events that led to this weeks amazing victory.

To this day, St. Francis celebrates the feast of the expulsion.

Kara

[BruceChris]

Church. The ELCA governing body was totally against it, but the church members simply would not give her up. She's still there. Still, I had not heard of the actions of the group that Kara refers to.

You guys in California do get out there ahead of the rest of us, on a regular basis.

The Catholic church has managed to split with Luther, the Anglicans, and a lot of other people. There are a number of Catholic churches in this country who are not Roman Catholic churches. They want to have the feel of the churches that they grew up in, but not take orders from Rome.

For a good bit of the story on that, Google "Womenpriests". If the Pope is not careful, there may not be enough of a church under him to support the hierarchy.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Gennee]

I believe other denominations will follow suit. Holding a group of people to a different standard is wrong and unChristian.

I remember of my professors at bible college mention in class one day that if a church stop growing or tries to hold to tradition, then the time has come for new churches to be created. It can happen in the one present in exixtence or a new one is formed. A good example is the Metropolitan Community churches.

I applaud the Lutheran church

Gennee

[BruceChris]

They once believed that the sun revolved around the earth, and not vice versa. Science eventually convinced them otherwise.

I firmly believe that science will show that our bodies, our gender identity, our orientation, and of course our chromosomes do not fit a binary model, and that there is a seperate, identifiable causal mechanism for each of the above. One day this will all be scientifically proven, with everything explained.

And I'll even make a prediction that the woman who will explain it to all of us some day will be a Dr. Gal E. Leo, along with her spouse, Les B. Anne.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Vanessa White]

My sister in law, who is Lutheran born and raised, has been keeping me posted on what went on last week. I am encouraged, although it brings to light even more pain over the failure of the UMC to overwhelmingly vote for "All Means All", full inclusivity, this summer. I know that change comes slowly, but when it grinds so slowly in faith communities, the sting seems that much more pronounced.

There is hope...... hope for change and inclusive love. AMEN!!!

[BruceChris]

"Lifelong, Committed, Monogamous Relationships"? I'm not sure that I know many STR8 people who live up to those standards. . . .

But it's a start.

Namaste', Bruce Chris