Maine takes away equality rights

[Rick336]

Maine takes away equality rights.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091104/...marriage_maine



"With liberty and justice for all."

Bullshit!




Rick

[Emproph]

From Good As You:

They lied. They dehumanized. They used personal faith to address civil law. They sought out any and every opportunity to confuse the issue. They went after anyone who got in their paths, with zero to less-than-zero regard for the well-being of LGBT families or their allies. And tonight, they have robbed an entire population of people of their equal citizenship, peaceful minds, and essences of humanity.

For shame, Stand For Marriage Maine. You have won nothing. You have hurt countless many. And your inevitable, everlasting trophy will be your prominent casting within the annals of unfortunate civil rights history.

[keltic63]

so, do we boycott Maine and their products? do we go for another 'Day without a Gay" ??? what do we do about this religious persecution, and let's be frank, that is exactly what happened.

I've been moving away from calling myself a christian for quite some time. I left the christian church behind nearly a year ago. This particular event, the imposing of a certain segment of christians' beliefs onto the civil govt in Maine has sealed the deal for me. I will not be aligned with christians. I am NOT a christian.

I'm also struck by the reality of our lgbt friends in Maine. They wake up this morning knowing that slightly more than half of the people they will have contact with today think that they don't deserve to marry or have their unions respected and honored by the civil govt. that's tough. my heart is breaking.

[scott snedeker]

The election won 53% to 47%. This is a barometer of the attitude of the majority of people in Maine. The good news is within an error of 3% half of people have an evolved sensibilty that recognizes that capacity for same-gender intimacy is a trait with equal entitlement to expression.

Compare it to climbing a mountain. Just because you made it 95% to the summit doesn't mean that you have lost. Improve the trail, get better supplies and equipment and get in better shape. When you are ready, start again.

We are steadily winning. These popular votes are showing that we are very close to having the majority of the population sypmathetic with us.

Our government is flawed because flawed humans run it and allow principles to be ignored or violated. What has to evolve are people's awareness toward violence to minorities.

Counter hate and lies with compassion and honesty. Everyone has the capacity for both. Don't counter violence with opposition or violence. That just reinforces the violence, fear and predjudice within the oppressor.

Cultivate inner compassion and practice genuine expression of this. This is what touches other people's hearts and changes them from fear and predjudice seeking gratification to compassion and offers of kindness.

nat equality march.jpg


From the National Equality March

How Beautiful!

[Daniel]

Reportage this morning notes that Portland was against repealing the law, but was outvoted by citizens upstate. And guess who campaigned - even passing the offering plate- against gay marriage?

The Catholic church.

My late Uncle lived in Hew Hampshire, just a stone's throw away from Maine, and in conversations with him, the big issue was the word marriage. Not the rights, but the word. He just couldn't get over it, though he wanted my guy and I to have equal rights. My sense is that many highly educated older straight people are stuck in this same place. A generational thing?

To be blunt, is the matter of gay marriage about patiently waiting for the growing number of young people to mature to voting age?

What do we do in the meanwhile?

Fight like crazy!

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Reportage this morning notes that Portland was against repealing the law, but was outvoted by citizens upstate. And guess who campaigned - even passing the offering plate- against gay marriage?

The Catholic church.

My late Uncle lived in Hew Hampshire, just a stone's throw away from Maine, and in conversations with him, the big issue was the word marriage. Not the rights, but the word. He just couldn't get over it, though he wanted my guy and I to have equal rights. My sense is that many highly educated older straight people are stuck in this same place. A generational thing?

To be blunt, is the matter of gay marriage about patiently waiting for the growing number of young people to mature to voting age?

What do we do in the meanwhile?

Fight like crazy!

I think it is very much a generational thing Time is not on the conservatives side and the Catholic Church will either lose the young vigorus and longer-lived folk and fade or Change If we keep up!

[psycho_drama]

The same people who brought us prop 8 are the people who brought us
yes on ballot intiative 1. Their campaign was also centerd on that if gay marrige remained legal that it would be taught in schools. As well as support from all over the country from anti-gay organizations like NOM, who produced that really funny and easily spuffed commercial.

I think that its not only waiting for the younger generation to grow up, but also constantly countering the deliberate lies. I liked Harvey Milk's idea, The more people know us and our stories and who really are the more difficult it becomes to discriminate. Most of these people who hate us do not know us on a personal level, we are just those people, not human beings with families, friends, jobs or that we are apart of their community.

Here in New Mexico, it took 12 years to pass an anti job discrimation bill that included sexual orientation and gender identity, it did eventually pass. The domestic partnership bill hasn't passed yet, but I know its just a matter of time.Things do change, even if they are slow. I will fight hard hard and pick my battles. and every victory no matter how small is still a victory. There are still five other states that have legalized Same sex marriage.

Yahoo News = Fox News?

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

The election won 53% to 47%. This is a barometer of the attitude of the majority of people in Maine. The good news is within an error of 3% half of people have an evolved sensibilty that recognizes that capacity for same-gender intimacy is a trait with equal entitlement to expression.

Compare it to climbing a mountain. Just because you made it 95% to the summit doesn't mean that you have lost. Improve the trail, get better supplies and equipment and get in better shape. When you are ready, start again.

We are steadily winning. These popular votes are showing that we are very close to having the majority of the population sypmathetic with us.

Our government is flawed because flawed humans run it and allow principles to be ignored or violated. What has to evolve are people's awareness toward violence to minorities.

Counter hate and lies with compassion and honesty. Everyone has the capacity for both. Don't counter violence with opposition or violence. That just reinforces the violence, fear and predjudice within the oppressor.

Cultivate inner compassion and practice genuine expression of this. This is what touches other people's hearts and changes them from fear and predjudice seeking gratification to compassion and offers of kindness.

Scott,

Your optimistic and rational approach makes good sense. I agree that this is the best way to react to this defeat.

Last night, however, when I read the bad news my immediate reaction was anger. I was furious. I wanted to lash out at the opposition. This morning your words have calmed me down and have gotten me thinking more clearly.

Thank you.

Rick

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Rick336

Scott,

Your optimistic and rational approach makes good sense. I agree that this is the best way to react to this defeat.

Last night, however, when I read the bad news my immediate reaction was anger. I was furious. I wanted to lash out at the opposition. This morning your words have calmed me down and have gotten me thinking more clearly.

Thank you.

Rick

I'm still working on the calming down and thinking clearly part, but I agree, Scotty's words have been a big help.

[Daniel]

It is all too easy to confuse calm with inaction or passivity. And remembering the awful 80's, when AIDS felled so many, actions like those of ACT-UP were born of anger and outrage.

Anger can get one going, but I don't see how it can keep one going over the long haul. Why? Burnout. The flame of anger burns up everything in it's path.

Getter to stay calm, focused, and ready to change with the wind. A little zen, no? Hard to pull of perhaps, but we have to stay in this thing for the duration.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by psycho_drama

I think that its not only waiting for the younger generation to grow up, but also constantly countering the deliberate lies.

And on a more inspirational note:

[antiochian]

Having just read the news minutes ago, I'm still very much in the anger stage. I'm reminded of this day a year ago when we learned the far right stole marriage equality from residents of three other states. I keep asking what the %^&*(@ is wrong with this country. What the @!#$ does it take to get it through people's heads that what they voted away were civil human rights? And my anger at the Church, oh my--anger isn't a strong enough word. I'm with Keltic on that. Frankly, how these certain sects remain tax-excepmt organizations is beyond me.

On the other hand, people who have pointed out the positive are right. We've had a great many victories this year, not the least of which was our President signing the hate crimes bill.

I acknowledge what Daniel said, that anger can be counterproductive if left unmanaged. I will say that despite my anger, I'm hopeful. I recently sent in a response to one of the nastiest antigay letters to the editor I've ever read, and I received several heart-warming thank yous from total strangers that made me cry warm tears of joy. Our opponents may still outnumber us, but we outweigh them in heart, and that counts for a lot. And we ain't goin' away!

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by antiochian

Having just read the news minutes ago, I'm still very much in the anger stage. I'm reminded of this day a year ago when we learned the far right stole marriage equality from residents of three other states. I keep asking what the %^&*(@ is wrong with this country. What the @!#$ does it take to get it through people's heads that what they voted away were civil human rights? And my anger at the Church, oh my--anger isn't a strong enough word. I'm with Keltic on that. Frankly, how these certain sects remain tax-excepmt organizations is beyond me.

On the other hand, people who have pointed out the positive are right. We've had a great many victories this year, not the least of which was our President signing the hate crimes bill.

I acknowledge what Daniel said, that anger can be counterproductive if left unmanaged. I will say that despite my anger, I'm hopeful. I recently sent in a response to one of the nastiest antigay letters to the editor I've ever read, and I received several heart-warming thank yous from total strangers that made me cry warm tears of joy. Our opponents may still outnumber us, but we outweigh them in heart, and that counts for a lot. And we ain't goin' away!

Our opponents outnumber us as much as they are organized, vocal and see themselves as having the weight of the Church behind them. In short- they believe God is on their side.

'God has given us this victory and it is very important for us to recognize that he is the one who put the energy into this campaign.'

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/11/yes...that-he-i.html

No wonder so many gay people can't stand the inside of a church, when Christ's followers act in such an un-Christ-like manner.

[snowqueen29]

Yesterday, I voted in Maine.

I am disappointed that so many Maine people, who are typically tough and self-reliant-- but community minded, responded to fear and hatred. Maine people regularly withstand ice storms, floods, blizzards, weeks without electricity, spotty cell-phone coverage, & moose crossing!!! What is so scary about a household headed by two men or two Moms attending their child's Saturday soccer game?

Many terrified people who voted to repeal the same-sex marriage law did so because they were told that the law would require schools to "teach gay marriage to children." Whatever that means.

Some people, not careful readers, mistakenly marked "yes," not realizing that a "no" vote was a vote in favor of same-sex marriage.

Others voted to repeal the law because their church told them to, and they fear eternal damnation.

A few voted to repeal the law because they fear what they heard about the "gay agenda." Supposedly a belief by gay and lesbian people that everyone is gay and just need to be carefully taught (in school) about how to live the "lifestyle."

Whatever the reason, Maine's same-sex marriage law was repealed. It was repealed because of ignorance, stupidity and fear.

I am so sorry.

[dsdrane]

but not surprised.

I grew up in Maine, went to college in Maine, and left Maine after I graduated. I continue to have a love-hate relationship with the place, with an annual pilgrimage enough to remind me what I love about the place and why I left.

At the end of the day, the heavy lifting of one county -- Cumberland Co., home to Portland, Maine's largest city -- wasn't sufficient to offset the other 15 counties in the rest of the state. While a few southern, coastal counties teetered back and forth over the 50-50 line, the rest came down decidedly in the Yes column.

To me, this is largely a class issue. Southern coastal areas are more cosmopolitan. They are wealthier, better educated, and host most of Maine's huge tourism business. In short, they know gay people. The inland areas (where I'm from) are isolated geographically and culturally. They are poorer and more blue collar. Think depressed mill towns. If you grow up gay there, you make it through high school in one piece and you leave. In short, they really don't know gay people.

The good news is that this is also a generational battle, and the wind is at our backs. Check out this soothing balm of a post at Daily Kos, written by their resident Mainer. It made me feel a helluva lot better today.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by snowqueen29

Maine's same-sex marriage law was repealed. It was repealed because of ignorance, stupidity and fear.

I am so sorry.

Thank you for your compassion and well thought through analysis, snowqueen.

[Daniel]

Great post Snowqueen!

And thank you for the link dsdrane. Balm indeed.

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by Daniel

No wonder so many gay people can't stand the inside of a church, when Christ's followers act in such an un-Christ-like manner.

Although anyone can call themselves whatever they like I don't call those that practice christ-less cuntery Christians. (Ye shall know them by their fruits.)

In all the gospels I've read (canonized or omitted) Jesus taught unconditional love, non-judgement, forgiveness, brotherhood, and peace. Also that there is no difference between him and you. He basically just told you what you already are.

You are worthy by virtue of being alive. Or if you prefer you're born blessed.

"There is one life, that life is God, that life is my life now. This life circulates through me. It animates my whole being."

Ernest Holmes

[tdogg]

A sign at the Sacramento rally tonight - the one year anniversary of Prop 8 taking our rights away: This fight is SO not over! How true.

I do not believe that rights should ever be put through a popular vote. Rights are not granted by popular vote (except for chickens here in CA). Rights are granted legislatively and/or judicially, but not through a popularity contest. It infuriates me that this could even be allowed in a country that was built on and prides itself on 'freedom'.

That said, the only way we are going to get equality right now is at the ballot box, so we must continue to fight this war until we are in a position to win it, and permanently, through our lawmakers or our justices. I'm pissed about Maine, it brought back so many bad memories of Prop 8. I'm angry, heartbroken, dejected, and a host of other emotions. I'm not even sure that I want to continue fighting - at least at this very moment. That will change of course, I'm an activist at heart.

So, will we succeed? How can we succeed? A very important lesson is here for us to learn, if we are willing. The same people that ran the Yes on 8 campaign here in California - Schubert and Flint - ran the Yes on 1 in Maine. Same lies, same scare tactics, same deceitful messages and methods. Same success (slightly more successful, actually). How did they do it? That's what we must learn.

Organized religion is very organized and very powerful, even within individual sects. When these people come together over one cause, it is a power that is going to be very difficult to fight and win. We must learn how to be organized like them. How to be united over one cause, cease our infighting and complaining and self-victimizing. We must join together, get organized as a unit and spread out. We must all become involved, because I guarantee you, they are all involved. In their churches, homes, schools and neighborhoods.

Most importantly, we must come out of our closets, live proudly and demand equality. No more asking, no more Mr./Ms. Nice Gay, no more treading lightly and trying not to hurt feelings. Sure, we can do this in a compassionate way and we must, but we must tell our stories and how discrimination hurts not only us, but our children and our families and our friends and in the end, them too. We must learn to reframe our messages so that they can understand our message. We need to refuse to be on the defense, but instead take the offense which in turn may put them on the defense. A good offense would work wonders for us.

Organize, unite, spread out and become active, reframe, initiate dialogue and most of all come out of our closets and LIVE. Live out and proud and let them get to know the real us. No more hiding, no more asking, no more excuses.

[Emproph]

How can we succeed?
Same lies, same scare tactics, same deceitful messages and methods.
We must learn how to be…united over one cause

Liberals, by nature, are independent thinkers, there's no getting around that. Plus, we're honest, and we give a chit about the rest of the world.

We have to refute their 'lies, scare tactics and deceitful messages' with the same vigor that they pump them out.

Non-violence doesn't mean that we shouldn't tell the UGLY truth. It would be violent to not do so.