Can we hear from someone involved with the Equality Ride?

[Zerbie]

Just starting a thread in a separate place, to reiterate Joe's request for more information about what happened today with the Ride.

I am angry to read reports from TWO people who say their access to classes today was blocked by participants of the Equality Ride.

If so, why? Why would the Riders choose this behavior? What were the circumstances surrounding this decision?

When the complaint comes from one person, well that's one thing. But now it's two. That suggests that *something* is amiss here.

Is there a staff member or Equality Rider around to reply to this?

Thanks.

[Joe Brummer]

Venari has provided that! Go back to the original thread and see the video clips of the altercation and all will be revealed! I promise!

[Zerbie]

I tried to view the videos as soon as the links were posted (about the time I started this thread.) They failed to load and my browser quit, so I didn't try again.

[studying]

It was not a good thing. Blocking doors o students to learn in peace is not the right approach. I watched the video and people were blocking the free access of school to students.

It is unsettling to see things like that. It would be far better for Soulforce to concentrate on secular politicians and leave Christians alone to worship, study and believe as the have the right to do.

[Dash]

Likewise, friend, wouldn't it be better if Christians would stay out of secular politics and leave the gays alone!!!

[themattperry]

Let's remember that we are all Christians here ... or at least from what I can tell the majority of us here are.

The people who were sitting in the doorways were just a Christian as those stepping around to them.

Final thought: I'm sure many innocent motorists were inconvenienced, mad and upset when MLK so invonveniently jammed up traffic in Birmingham many years ago. Maybe there were even some fender-benders.

That said, I'd like to hear from one of the riders too ... tell us your perspective!

[Jamie McDaniel]

Originally Posted by studying

It would be far better for Soulforce to concentrate on secular politicians and leave Christians alone to worship, study and believe as the have the right to do.

HRC and others handle the political realm. Soulforce has always said that the source of our oppression is the religious institutions that keep teaching that GLBT people are morally inferior and condemn our relationships. Talk with any politician who votes against our civil rights and almost always the justification for his or her prejudice is "personal religious beliefs."

Soulforce has been leading the way in stating that religion-based oppression is wrong and that equality is a moral value. Other progressive organizations are starting to hear us.

[studying]

But Jamie,

Originally Posted by studying
It would be far better for Soulforce to concentrate on secular politicians and leave Christians alone to worship, study and believe as the have the right to do.

HRC and others handle the political realm. Soulforce has always said that the source of our oppression is the religious institutions that keep teaching that GLBT people are morally inferior and condemn our relationships.

But how is that not a right of a religious Christian to believe the Bible says what it says? Divorce doesn't always hurt anyone but it is denounced in scripture. There are other ways for GLBT people to get a religious perspective then by targeting denominations like the Assemblies of God. That will cause much trouble. They have just as much Biblical backing for their beliefs as does Mormonms for theirs. Yet Mormons do not charge Christians with hate crimes.

Talk with any politician who votes against our civil rights and almost always the justification for his or her prejudice is "personal religious beliefs."

I have talked with politicians and Pastors. For politcians it is constituents in munbers only. For Pastors in the Assemblies of God it is more than just a few Biblical quotes that have them trying to evangelize GLBT to no longer "do" the things they do. For millions and millions of Christians, they are not going to re-edit the Bible for anyone. Why not form a new religion or name a new denomination? Why force Soulforce on others? It doesn't seem that religious views except Islamic fundamentalism hurts anyone in reality.

Soulforce has been leading the way in stating that religion-based oppression is wrong and that equality is a moral value.

Where would that lead? You cannot force Christians to call atheists "Christians." How are gays and lesbians being oppressed by Christians that disapprove of homosexuality?

Other progressive organizations are starting to hear us.

Of course. This organization will probably get support from atheists and secularists as (historically) the literally are the progressive movement. That seems like Soulforce is yoking itself to un-believers.

Conservatives feel they are being proven right that there is a "gay agenda" really out to force itself on Christianity.

I have joined this forum to see for myself. I have heard so much from conservatives that I want to know if "forcing" anything on Christians is really happening; or if a dialog can be instigated and peace be established.

[NonLemming]

Embarrassing videos. Soulforce can do better.

[dewdrop_world]

No time at the moment to respond to more than one point...

Originally Posted by studying

How are gays and lesbians being oppressed by Christians that disapprove of homosexuality?

This territory has been covered... and covered... and covered... and covered... at length, by many authors and speakers in many countries over several decades. That well-meaning Christians can still, after so many years and so many testimonies, claim that there is no oppression indicates how deeply-rooted the problem is. It's so entrenched in the culture, it's like the air you breathe. You don't notice it until it smells different.

But for just one example of thousands: Prayers for Bobby: A Mother's Coming to Terms with the Suicide of Her Gay Son

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062511238
http://www.critpath.org/pflag-talk/cowan.htm

hjh

[Dash]

Originally Posted by dewdrop_world

This territory has been covered... and covered... and covered... and covered

Man, I feel the same way. I've been kinda dishearted today after seeing so many postings recently by new voices that repeat the same tired old arguments against us. It's like we're always starting from scratch. How can we get our message out there?

[Mia14]

Could somone link back to the original thread where the videos were?

[awediot]

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=25675&bw=

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.a...sid=123213&bw=

Hi Mia, these were posted by venari in the "circus...lies" (or the like thread)

[pnggrad79]

How are gays and lesbians being oppressed by Christians that disapprove of homosexuality? quoted by studying .

What a question!!! OK, I will start with my own family-Southern Baptists, my own two sisters refuse to talk to me or let me around their children because they think I have a disease that may be catching (as if you can catch homosexuality). Secondly, our music minister was fired from his job as a music minister after he was outed. Thirdly, I am going to a wedding or should I say committment ceremony on Saturday (because the state of Texas has written into our constitution that same sex partners cannot legally get married) and one of the partners' parents have not seen or spoken to her in over 20 years, nor do they acknowledge their own grandchild that was born to her and her partner. Appalling!

Do I need to go on? Gays and lesbians have historically been oppressed by the mainstream churches.

Pardon me for saying this, but how can this be a legitimate question? Do people just not see this?

[MamimiFista]

To all of you who are dissapointed about our sit-in...

Although I acknowledge that the students did need to get to class, as an Equality Rider I feel as though my making a statement about the GLBT students there being silenced, kicked out, and not allowed into a Christ-centered learning environment because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is infinately more important then someone getting to math class! The students at this school needed to hear our message and if being late for class is the penalty then so be it. People are being emotionally tortured, physically abused, spiritually abused, and killed because of policies like the one at this school... being late to class is nothing compared to that.

~ Kate Riley

[themattperry]

Kate,

I agree and I thank you for your action. I think it was entirely appropriate.

There has been some speculation and non-specific charges made on these forums regarding the behavior of the riders, the students and the guards. In my effort to find out the truth about this, I'd like to ask you:

- Did any rider intentionally trip and student of Norht Central or other person during the action. This has been alleged by more than one person. I find it hard to believe, but I wanted to check with you, a participant in the action.

- To your knowledge, did anyone sustain injuries of any kind during the action?

I think your answers might help clear up some lingering questions for me and others on this forum.

Thanks and God bless you during your continued journey.

Matt

[Venari]

Originally Posted by MamimiFista

To all of you who are dissapointed about our sit-in...

Although I acknowledge that the students did need to get to class, as an Equality Rider I feel as though my making a statement about the GLBT students there being silenced, kicked out, and not allowed into a Christ-centered learning environment because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is infinately more important then someone getting to math class! The students at this school needed to hear our message and if being late for class is the penalty then so be it. People are being emotionally tortured, physically abused, spiritually abused, and killed because of policies like the one at this school... being late to class is nothing compared to that.

~ Kate Riley

Kate,

How are people being emotionally tortured, physically/spiritually abused or killed? You are making over the top claims about life at NCU and know nothing about it ... if you refering to the claims made by David Colemen here is a link to a student message board and there are a few people who refernce the actions the lead him to be dismissed http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...72F47913987706

Despite his claims, which cannot be commented on by NCU because David refuses to sign a release. David harassed several students and engaged in several incidents of behavior that would get any student dismissed.

Please look fully into the facts before accusing a place of "killing." A good start would be to contact the students though my space and ask them why he was dismissed ... you may be suprised by what you find out.

-Venari

[Jamie McDaniel]

Originally Posted by Venari

here is a link to a student message board... http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...72F47913987706

I went to the message board, Venari, and what I want to comment on is the student who can't post his photo but goes by the name gayncustudent. Reading his comments along with the others took me back to those intense days when I was struggling to come out, yet totally surrounded by my fellow Christians who were well-meaning, but so misinformed about homosexuality and homosexual people.

I admit my only information comes from the message board you asked us to visit, but it seems to me that gayncustudent, after years of struggle, is starting to stand on his feet and affirm who he is. And the other students are rushing to tell him that his dreams of finding the right guy are actually sinful desires that need to be fought against.

It is clear that the other students are sincere, but they don't realize the poison they are spilling. For example post #22 by Daala (her avatar is affirming of her own sexual orientation) is just horrible. Not because it is mean-spirited, but rather because it is so polite while working to convince gayncustudent that his own sexual orientation is a sin.

It's not the Fred Phelps of the world that torture the souls of gay Christians. Rather it's the important people in our lives who keep communicating to us that we are sinful human beings and that every time we long to hold a member of our own gender, that God is watching and Jesus feels the nails.

I hope gayncustudent and the others like him are able to stand. Some fall.

[Venari]

Originally Posted by Jamie McDaniel

I hope gayncustudent and the others like him are able to stand. Some fall.

Jamie,

I and many other students are part of the NCU group and we are open about our sexuality. I will say "gayncustudent" has given no credence to his claim he is a student and not someone posting to "stir the pot." I could sign up here with a handle "FPhelps" and say how much I love gay people and that doesn’t mean I am who I am trying to pass my self off as.

The point of the matter is MANY students claim David Coleman was not expelled for just being gay but for several other actions. So I offered for Kate a chance to look into matters for her self.

Also I want to further comment on her statement:

Originally Posted by MamimiFista

Although I acknowledge that the students did need to get to class, as an Equality Rider I feel as though my making a statement about the GLBT students there being silenced, kicked out, and not allowed into a Christ-centered learning environment because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is infinately more important then someone getting to math class!

Simply this is reducing our argument to its most absurd point, ad absurdum. It was not just preventing people from getting to a "math" class. It was intimidating people trying to enter the building. It was cutting people off from the dorm rooms. It was endangering people’s lives by blocking emergency exits.

Yes Kate I did see you in front of Miller Hall and I did talk to you. It as you would risk others personal safety to make a point ... what you did was an act of violence. Violence to me is the intentional endangerment of another person’s safety, and that no matter how you look at it is what happened.

If you don’t believe me … the buildings that house NCU are nearly 100 years old and are prone to many false alarms … what is one occurred and people barged though the doors. Of if was a real fire how much worse would it have been?

-Venari

[MamimiFista]

Originally Posted by Venari

It was endangering people’s lives by blocking emergency exits.

Yes Kate I did see you in front of Miller Hall and I did talk to you. It as you would risk others personal safety to make a point ... what you did was an act of violence. Violence to me is the intentional endangerment of another person’s safety, and that no matter how you look at it is what happened.

If you don’t believe me … the buildings that house NCU are nearly 100 years old and are prone to many false alarms … what is one occurred and people barged though the doors. Of if was a real fire how much worse would it have been?

-Venari

Yeah, okay because I wouldn't have moved if there was an emergency! ACTUALLY I WOULD HAVE! We all would have moved if people needed to get out because of an emergency. And we didn't hurt anyone during the sit-in... actually a few of the Riders were physically assaulted by the security people who were at the doors! So don't tell me WE were being violent!