Homosexulity and Change: My Promiscuity

[bnmoore]

I remember a short film about non-abductees that were in a support group because they had never been abducted by aliens.

Maybe I can start a local chapter for non-molestees anonymous.

If you're serious I apologize for your pain. I'll drop out this thread. I'm just laughing too hard right now.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

This is a myth. One does not develop same-sex attraction from being molested.

The vast majority of gay men that I know (and I have met many in my 51 years on earth) will tell you that their same-sex desires are not a result of being molested.

Now. Do screwed up gay priests (thank you religion!) molest gay boys? You bet. Now that will F**k with your mind.

I never said that molestation was the cause of homosexuality. You make it seem as if i was speaking for gay men in general. I said in some cases it is the cause of some people's same-sex attraction. I have friends with stories such as this. Thus i know from experience. sexual attraction and homosexuality can be two different things(depending on the topic). for instance, some prison inmates often refer to same-sex sexual behaviors (without the presence of the opposite sex to fulfill their sexual impulses) but are not indeed homosexual and when they are out of prison and able to have sexual connections with the opposite sex sometimes they abandon their same-sex behaviors due to the fact that they were always heterosexual but needed a temporary substitute to fulfill their desires. (a.k.a other men)

So do you not think it possible for a boy who originally is heterosexual to develop same-sex desires after being molested?

And once again this does not make him homosexual or a gay male, just a heterosexual who experiencing desires that are unusual for him, since he is initially heterosexual. I do believe sexuality has biological factors. But people experience same-sex desires for a variety of reasons.some through tragedy while others through nature. Its just that some -faith based groups in some cases use individuals who have been raped and experience same-sex desires , to defend their theory that this is one reason how homosexuality is caused. When homosexuality as you said earlier Daniel, is much more than sexual attraction. being a homosexual is loving, not solely lusting someone of the same sex, and desiring a romantic and intimate connection as well.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

I remember a short film about non-abductees that were in a support group because they had never been abducted by aliens.

Maybe I can start a local chapter for non-molestees anonymous.

If you're serious I apologize for your pain. I'll drop out this thread. I'm just laughing too hard right now.

I'm not sure I understand your humor.

[Legendary]

I do not believe that I am a same-sex loving individual because of my past. I believe it is how I began.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

So do you not think it possible for a boy who originally is heterosexual to develop same-sex desires after being molested?

I think you use the word attraction is a peculiar way.

No. Based on data from mental health professionals, I do not think it is possible for a heterosexual boy to become gay after being molested.

A note about sex that is worth keeping in mind...

Just because a straight man has discovered that he likes to be anally penetrated (his wife or girl friend can do with her finger or a dildo) because the feelings of pleasure via the prostate, doesn't mean the man is gay. It just means he's discovered more about his body.

Do all gay men like anal sex? No.

Back to your subject.

Using your logic, all the boys who are molested by priests should be exhibiting same-sex attraction. And that is certainly not the case.

I think you are reading too much crap from Narth. Ah... Excuse me. Make that all crap from Narth.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

I think you use the word attraction is a peculiar way.

No. I do not think it is possible for a heterosexual boy to become gay after being molested.

This is not what I asked. I never mentioned the word gay in my question. I said "same-sex desires" or maybe I should have said attraction instead. A heterosexual can have same-sex attractions but still claim a heterosexual idenity.

A note about sex that is worth keeping in mind...

Just because a straight man has discovered that he likes to be anally penetrated (his wife or girl friend can do with her finger or a dildo) because the feelings of pleasure via the prostate, doesn't mean the man is gay. It just means he's discovered more about his body.

Once again. Where did I mention that because a man enjoys anal sex-or being penetrated makes them gay? I gave the example that prison mates engage in anal sex but are still heterosexual. It's the conservative evangelist that would declare them homosexual. I on the other hand beg to differ.

Do all gay men like anal sex? No.

I'm am aware of this. Once again as i mentioned earlier everyone is different. Sexual desires or attraction by itself doesn't define an individual's sexual orientation.

Back to your subject.

Using your logic, all the boys who are molested by priests should be exhibiting same-sex attraction. And that is certainly not the case.

Once again. Everyone is different. But even if they do experience same-sex attraction is doesn't necessarily make them gay.

I think you are reading too much crap from Narth. Ah... Excuse me. Make that all crap from Narth.

You must be readingme information wrong. I dont believe that anywhere in NARTH's research do they declare that being gay is ok. Which I have mentioned before. "being a homosexual is about loving, and desiring a romantic and intimate connection with someone of the same sex. Not solely lusting someone them."

Please sir. Read my information clearly. Alot of the claims you made I never stated.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Please sir. Read my information clearly. Alot of the claims you made I never stated.

You have asserted that you were molested, and because of that, have same-sex attraction.

Ok. Got that. Now what?

Let's cut to the chase Mr. Legend.

What do you want out of Souforce? What do you want to accomplish here?

Are you a gay guy who wants to be Ok with your feelings? Or are you running from them?

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

You have asserted that you were molested, and because of that, have same-sex attraction.

Ok. Got that. Now what?

Let's cut to the chase Mr. Legend.

What do you want out of Souforce? What do you want to accomplish here?



Are you a gay guy who wants to be Ok with your feelings? Or are you running from them?

Whoah...Once again you are mis-quoting me. And I never said what happened to me in my past was the reason why I like guys. Can you please tell me where I said that. I even said " I do not believe that I am a same-sex loving individual because of my past. I believe it is how I began." And in my first post I mentioned that I was doing research on this for a presentation in my Gender and Sexuality class and I just had some questions that I listed (which never got answered). I mentioned my past to get advice on advice on how to find peace with God. I know this place is good for this(because this is not my first visit). So in conclusion, I came here for two very different reasons. Discussion about my research and guidance on helping me find peace with God. Best not to get the two mixed up.

PS: If I wasn't clear enough in my first post than I apologize.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Whoah...Once again you are mis-quoting me. And I never said what happened to me in my past was the reason why I like guys. Can you please tell me where I said that. I even said " I do not believe that I am a same-sex loving individual because of my past. I believe it is how I began." And in my first post I mentioned that I was doing research on this for a presentation in my Gender and Sexuality class and I just had some questions that I listed (which never got answered). I mentioned my past to get advice on advice on how to find peace with God. I know this place is good for this(because this is not my first visit). So in conclusion, I came here for two very different reasons. Discussion about my research and guidance on helping me find peace with God. Best not to get the two mixed up.

PS: If I wasn't clear enough in my first post than I apologize.

You've already hear my suggestion re finding peace. But in the interest of being very clear, I will say it again.

Go meditate.

That is where you will find answers. Inside yourself. And no place else.

Re your research: the way you have gone about the discussion of sexuality suggests (to me anyway) that you have some sort of confusion about your feelings. If I am wrong about that, then please say so. That is way I asked directly: are you a gay guy who is having a problem with your same-sex feelings.

You haven't answered that question!

[Legendary]

My research has nothing to do with my feeling even though it may seem so. I just really like discussing sexuality and gender expression from all perspectives. As for me I am not running away from my feelings but am trying to understand them. I have tried meditation but it seems it doesn't always work. I really think the whole idea of mediation is awesome, its really appealing to me. I even considered taking classes for it. I think it'll just take sometime to grow into. If you could give me some advice that can help me out that would be greatly appreciated.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

[CENTER]
How come some men are happy living an 'ex-gay' life when others are not (former ex-gay)?

Happy? Most of these men are thinking about getting it on with guys and are still attracted to men. Even the ex-gay people say this now. Their 'happiness', if you can call if that, is about not acting gay- having gay sex.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Why is 'masculinity' almost always confined to 'maleness' when attempting to help a man be free of his homosexual desires?

Because ex-gay folks are fixated on gender roles. In their world, real men don't do certain things. Their world is about conformity, not freedom to be who you are.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Does this mean that some people are not meant to be gay? Some therapist would agree that reparative therapy are only for those who want to seek assistance to rid of their unwanted same-sex desires.

No. It's doesn't mean that people are not meant to be gay. The ex-gay world is one where those who have same-sex desires are seen as defective straight persons. Reparative therapy is for people who are coerced into it by religious conservatives.

Originally Posted by Legendary

Is the ex-gay movement an attempt to confine both men and women to the gender binary without the recognizance or inclusion of those who do not fit?

Now you are on to something. Yes. I would agree. The ex-gay movement is about CONTROL and making people adhere to strict notions regarding male & female gender roles.

Originally Posted by Legendary

In order to help a patient change a therapist must know the 'causes of the homosexuality'. What 'caused' you to become homosexual'? I admit I have had a very sexual childhood. I'm now even just getting over my pornographic addiction (I'm 18..since middle school). I used to be a victim of the promiscuity that the stereotypes of homosexual or same sex loving individuals are labeled under by the heterosexual society. Even though I don't think much about my father, I was raised only by by mother but was consistently surrounded by male role models through out my whole life. I can't remember exactly when I began to be attracted to guys but I know it was before I had 'sex' with 2 guys that were 4 and 3 years older then me from the ages of 8-10 (or maybe younger I cant remember). And I have even had experiences with my siblings (girls and guys) in my younger and teen years. Today it seems my mind has put all this history locked away, to the point where all seems ok. But every now and then i think about it and I still don't believe what my life used to be. It frightens me because sometimes I wonder what if the reason I like guys is because of my past. But then I think of how I felt this way even before all this happened. Maybe all the sex at a young age is what caused me to become sexually hyperactive. I don't know. I also remember the many sexual experiences i had throughout high school with guys, as an attempt to find the right one for me. Occasionally today I feel the urges I used to feel as a teen, but it just seems as if everything has slowed way down, and I'm the things that used to bother me don't effect me as much. I think I just grew tired of it. All I know now is that I am only left with so many questions but with very few answers. I'm not hear to be judged just helped. Now that I have come to the realization that I question everything. I feel myself walking away from God. Being afraid or avoiding going to church when I used to be excited. Even gay-friendly churches. My spiritual journey has come to a n abrupt halt.

No one caused me to be gay. And I hardly think that your interest in sex as a kid is deserving of a scarlet letter. I was noticing and fooling around with boys at a young age too. This isn't a matter of being straight or gay btw. Kids are interested in sex when the hormones start doing their thing. And boys- in particular- can be involved in same-sex activity, that is, masturbating together etc.

You might go read Kinsey. It's very informative re same-sex activity.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

I have tried meditation but it seems it doesn't always work. I really think the whole idea of mediation is awesome, its really appealing to me. I even considered taking classes for it. I think it'll just take sometime to grow into. If you could give me some advice that can help me out that would be greatly appreciated.

One doesn't 'try' meditation. It's a practice!

Can you learn to play the piano in one sitting? Can you learn to sing like an opera singer in a week? Hell no! It takes practice.

One doesn't 'grow' into it either. One just does it. Over and over and over.

Taking a class is a very good idea.

There are many books about meditation. Just choose one and go from there. The basics are pretty simple, and are cross-cultural. Simply put, it's about watching the breath and becoming aware of the mind and its actions.

Try this..

http://www.how-to-meditate.org/

Or this....

http://www.wikihow.com/Meditate

Or this...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.ph...=26&Itemid=161

Or this...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wq0...age&q=&f=false

My own practice is very simple. I do this...

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Happy? Most of these men are thinking about getting it on with guys and are still attracted to men. Even the ex-gay people say this now. Their 'happiness', if you can call if that, is about not acting gay- having gay sex.



Because ex-gay folks are fixated on gender roles. In their world, real men don't do certain things. Their world is about conformity, not freedom to be who you are.



No. It's doesn't mean that people are not meant to be gay. The ex-gay world is one where those who have same-sex desires are seen as defective straight persons. Reparative therapy is for people who are coerced into it by religious conservatives.



Now you are on to something. Yes. I would agree. The ex-gay movement is about CONTROL and making people adhere to strict notions regarding male & female gender roles.



No one caused me to be gay. And I hardly think that your interest in sex as a kid is deserving of a scarlet letter. I was noticing and fooling around with boys at a young age too. This isn't a matter or being straight or gay btw. Kids are interesting in sex when the hormones start doing their thing. And boys- in particular- can be involved in same-sex activity, that is, masturbating together etc.

You might go read Kinsey. It's very informative re same-sex activity.

Yes Kinsey(as well a others) is primarily were I observed my research from. and that is the point I was giving you about the fluidity of sexuality. As for me point were I said some people are not meant to be gay, I was trying to explain even through gruesome experiences such as rape by the same-sex and person could still turn out to be straight. Therefor the rape only confused them for a certain time but they soon realized that those feelings were not coinciding with their own sexual orientation. Some rape victims realize this on their own while others seek therapy. But in no way at all does it make them homosexual. This research is intense, both sides have strong opinions.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

One doesn't 'try' meditation. It's a practice!

Can you learn to play the piano in one sitting? Can you learn to sing like an opera singer in a week? Hell no! It takes practice.

One doesn't 'grow' into it either. One just does it. Over and over and over.

Taking a class is a very good idea.

There are many books about meditation. Just choose one and go from there. The basics are pretty simple, and are cross-cultural. Simply put, it's about watching the breath and becoming aware of the mind and its actions.

Try this..

http://www.how-to-meditate.org/

Or this....

http://www.wikihow.com/Meditate

Or this...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.ph...=26&Itemid=161

Or this...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wq0...age&q=&f=false

My own practice is very simple. I do this...

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

This is highly appreciated my friend. I truly thank you. And your right maybe I went into it the wrong way. So I don't try it. I have to practice it. Never thought of that. Wow I think I just had an epiphany.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

My research has nothing to do with my feeling even though it may seem so.

Hello! Starting a thread with 'promiscuity' in it is pretty personal. Nothing to do with your feelings? Please don't blow smoke up you-know-where.

From this armchair (eyes rolling), you seem to be working out your stuff regarding your first sexual experiences.

Guilt is a really bad trip.

How about some compassion for the kid (yourself) who was trying to find himself?

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Hello! Starting a thread with 'promiscuity' in it is pretty personal. Nothing to do with your feelings? Please don't blow smoke up you-know-where.

From this armchair (eyes rolling), you seem to be working out your stuff regarding your first sexual experiences.

Guilt is a really bad trip.

How about some compassion for the kid (yourself) who was trying to find himself?

Yeah actually I just really didnt know what to name the thread. About time I figured that people may get the wrong idea it was too late.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Yeah actually I just really didnt know what to name the thread. About time I figured that people may get the wrong idea it was too late.

You don't have to yak to me about your feelings, but I took them seriously.

I think there is a lot going on here. Multi-level. Most gay people I know have gone through a questioning period even after coming out. Like meditation, coming to terms to one's feelings takes time. It's not a one shot deal. Especially so when there is pressure regarding one's feelings. The desire to be accepted is very strong. It can be difficult to assert one's personhood while also maintaining family ties.

This is why ex-gay stuff is such a tangled mess.

[Legendary]

Originally Posted by Daniel

You don't have to yak to me about your feelings, but I took them seriously.

I think there is a lot going on here. Multi-level. Most gay people I know have gone through a questioning period even after coming out. Like meditation, coming to terms to one's feelings takes time. It's not a one shot deal. Especially so when there is pressure regarding one's feelings. The desire to be accepted is very strong. It can be difficult to assert one's personhood while also maintaining family ties.

This is why ex-gay stuff is such a tangled mess.

Yeah your right...the whole sexuality topic in general is tangled. It's crazy. It's so interesting when i try to explain some of my ideas to some of my family,they don't understand. I want to explore beyond the gender binary. Beyond the gender queer. I want to understand in all plus more. But as we both know I have to understand myself first.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Yeah your right...the whole sexuality topic in general is tangled. It's crazy. It's so interesting when i try to explain some of my ideas to some of my family,they don't understand. I want to explore beyond the gender binary. Beyond the gender queer. I want to understand in all plus more. But as we both know I have to understand myself first.

That is- it can be very hard for our families to understand us. Some never do. And that can be hard.

My own sense is that it takes a lot of inquiry to understand ourselves as well as others. And part of this understanding entails having compassion for ourselves as well as others.

For those who want easy answers...well..that doesn't involve me inquiry- or much compassion.

[Legendary]

I totally agree, life is not as simple as people try to make it. Your born, grow-up, get married, have kids. Well not everyone has that type of life and even if they do, I guarantee it is not that easy. Life has such a greater purpose than what we are exposed too.