Hi. I'm Helen.

[HELENz]

I'm straight, but a strong supporter of gay rights. Always have been; Always will be. I don't understand why there could ever be a problem with people who are gay - it's prejudice. I've never understood actually...I've met many wonderful people who are gay, lesbian and bi. I always say that every person should have at least one lesbian or gay friend! And I adore Ellen DeGeneres. She's an amazing woman, and I am more than thrilled for her and Portia. It's unfortunate that, due to Prop 8, other couples in California do not have the right to get married as they did. Maybe someday things will change. I stand wholeheartedly behind gay marriage - LOVE is love. I'm tired of people trying to qualify it.

I also see the 'homosexuality as sin' issue as one of the main reasons why our younger generation (my generation and younger, btw. I'm 20) is turning away from Christianity! It was certainly a factor for me - I now consider myself Agnostic Theist. I do think, however, that the churches that are gay-affirming are a movement in the correct direction; may they continue to flourish and add to their numbers every week. I attended New Vision UCC last week, and although it was a tiny congregation (75ish people), it was a lovely, welcoming group and I will be returning.

I forgot to mention some stuff about myself... I'm a college student at a conservative Christian college - Malone University. Soulforce is visiting us, and I couldn't be more thrilled. My hope is that their presence creates dialogue and maybe causes people to think and rethink.

Any questions? (= I'll be around.

[antiochian]

So nice to have you here, Helen! I will be graduating in May from a Baptist university. It was an interesting experience, and I encountered a good deal of closed-mindedness. I couldn't agree with you more--there needs to be a serious spring cleaning in Christianity. I left partly because I was sick of the insane focus on gays and "family values," and no longer wanted to be a part of it. I guess you could call me agnostic in a way, too, but I practice earth-based, pagan spirituality these days. On the other hand, as you said, churches and individual Christians are beginning to wake up, and shed this old bias. There is hope!

I'm so thankful for my straight allies! You're right--love is love. Bright blessings!

[HELENz]

Malone is not too conservative, actually it's comparatively open. People, as far as I know, don't get outright kicked out for being gay. However, a large part of the population believes that homosexuality is a sin, and say on a usual basis "love the sinner, not the sin". They are, however, still a lovely bunch of people, minus a few legalist individuals. They are misinformed, and that is no reason to hate them. Rather, to hope they see the light.

Spring cleaning? Try revival within the Church - a return to Love! God is Love.

I do find pagans to be an interesting bunch. Considered becoming Wiccan at one point meself! (= Although, taking that path at this school might be a bad idea... Isn't that considered occult by some? (=

And hopefully, one day this will no longer be an issue within the church. Live and let love in!

~Helen

[krobbyzw]

"And hopefully, one day this will no longer be an issue within the church"

Hi Helen, I guess there are some folks in the church who need a guarantee that Jesus won't condemn us for not speaking against homosexuality. The only person who can give or withhold that guarantee is Jesus Himself, since He will be the judge, according to the Book of Revelations. You will remember, if you have ever read the Bible that He said there will be people who call him "Lord" but that He does not recognize [Matt 7:21].

An eternity in hell is too much of a chance to take, I am sure you will agree?

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by krobbyzw

"And hopefully, one day this will no longer be an issue within the church"

Hi Helen, I guess there are some folks in the church who need a guarantee that Jesus won't condemn us for not speaking against homosexuality. The only person who can give or withhold that guarantee is Jesus Himself, since He will be the judge, according to the Book of Revelations. You will remember, if you have ever read the Bible that He said there will be people who call him "Lord" but that He does not recognize [Matt 7:21].

An eternity in hell is too much of a chance to take, I am sure you will agree?

Most of us here have already spent a good bit of time in hell. It really doesn't scare us any more. I was raised there myself. My faith got me through it.

Most of us do pay attention to what we reflect back to that from which we came. Try looking with Love's eyes instead of being God's self-appointed spies. If you're looking for sin everywhere that's all you're going to find.

[HELENz]

If Hell is what people say it is, then yes. I can understand that. As an Agnostic Theist, I'm not completely sure whether I believe Hell exists or not. =)

Bnmoore, Hell on Earth? I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, but not surprised, unfortunately. I like the last thing you said: "If you're looking for sin everywhere, that's all you're going to find." I may have to post that on my FB status... I'm glad your faith got you through. For too many, it hasn't.

If I may half-plagarize... "I have a dream..." That one day my GLBT friends will be judged not on their sexual orientation, but on the content of their character. And that they will not be barred from expressing the love that they have for each other. That one day, they will have the equal rights to marriage that they are being denied and will no longer be treated like second-class citizens.

But I fear it will not happen in my lifetime.

[Pablo Rafael]

Hi Helen,

Sorry I am so late in welcoming you to the forums.

I really appreciate your attitude. I too think that the anti-gay rhetoric of many churches is turning off younger people. Unfortunately it seems that the more affirming Christian denominations, like my own Episcopal church, are losing younger members even more quickly than the fundamentalist ones. It is a youthful flee from Christianity in general.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by HELENz

I do find pagans to be an interesting bunch. Considered becoming Wiccan at one point meself! (= Although, taking that path at this school might be a bad idea... Isn't that considered occult by some? (=



~Helen

Welcome Helen! glad to have you here.

I've been exploring Wicca myself. What I have found so interesting is the way in which christianity has borrowed so freely from Wicca and other pagan spiritual paths. Candles, symbolism, incense, even the similarities between "Holy Days" and the pagan counterparts. They even use a derivative of the Goddess Astarte to name resurrection day: Easter! Christianity has had to paint Wicca as evil to keep its followers from investigating ancient spirituality and discovering the similarities.

[bnmoore]

It seems that our fertility godess' symbol is a rabbit. Some of us have also heard about the Feast of Esther.

Who stole who's holy days?

Almost forgot. Welcome Helen.

[HELENz]

"Who stole who's holy days?" Laughs. Love it.

Good comments y'all. =)

[krobbyzw]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

Most of us here have already spent a good bit of time in hell. It really doesn't scare us any more. I was raised there myself. My faith got me through it.

Most of us do pay attention to what we reflect back to that from which we came. Try looking with Love's eyes instead of being God's self-appointed spies. If you're looking for sin everywhere that's all you're going to find.

Hi Ben

I can appreciate that you have had a terrible life. There are many people on this planet who have, and I count myself as one of the more blessed ones, since I have comparatively little to complain about compared to the people I have encountered even in the last ten years. However, 'spending a good bit of time in hell' here on earth, would probably not compare with spending eternity in a lake of unquenchable fire being eaten by worms, but never finding relief from the excruciating pain that must cause.

I do appreciate your comment on only finding sin if that is all you are looking for. It is certainly depressing to do that! One of the goals of my life has been to hear directly from Jesus and I cannot claim to have come to the point where I hear from Him or obey His will in every decision I make, but I am told that Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven, and that is because some people on this planet do not have an eternal perspective, but a temporal one, and Jesus did warn us against that [Mat 6:19]. So for those of us who see ourselves as Christian, part of our mission here on earth is to rescue as many as possible.

At the same time, I don't feel that even us Christians should see ourselves as 'perfect' or as 'non-sinners' since in my experience, we are also still subjects to the desires and lusts of this world as long as we live in it. We are, forgiven, however, as long as we continue to 'work out our salvation with fear and trembling [Phil 2:12]' and continue to confess our sin to our brothers and sisters and to God.

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by krobbyzw

Hi Ben


At the same time, I don't feel that even us Christians should see ourselves as 'perfect' or as 'non-sinners' since in my experience, we are also still subjects to the desires and lusts of this world as long as we live in it. We are, forgiven, however, as long as we continue to 'work out our salvation with fear and trembling [Phil 2:12]' and continue to confess our sin to our brothers and sisters and to God.

I find this remark very odd. First, I don't think anyone on this post was suggesting they were perfect, or even nonsinners. Clearly we all fall short of the mark. But krobby you also need to be respectful of other people's beliefs, and as a Christian myself, I've experienced some arrogance on your part in your belief that somehow being Christian is superior to any other belief.

I also don't believe you're correct about Jesus speaking more of hell than he did of heaven, though I've not seen a count on either. I personally don't believe in hell. And while I'm committed to living my life as closely as possible to the way Jesus did, it has nothing to do with whether there is a hell, or even a heaven, but because that is what I believe I'm called to do.

I absolutely believe we do create our own hells on this earth, and that it is part of the journey.

Kara

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by krobbyzw

I can appreciate that you have had a terrible life.

I haven't had a terrible life. Just a terrible childhood. And even then I was teaching my own Sunday School class. That's not my story any more.

If I have a point it's just that fear of hell, nor love of Jesus will make a gay person straight. We already are the way God made us. As you are already the way God made you.

Peace out. I'm done.

[BruceChris]

I just wish that I could send you a PM.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[HELENz]

PMs working. I didn't know I needed to turn them on! (=

[Gennee]

A hearty welcome to you, Helen. I graduated from a Christian college in 2008. Though my theology is conservative, I am appalled by some Christians who demean LGBT people. You correctly point out that many young people reject the bible and Christianity because of the actions of some so-called Christians.

I'm a transgender individual who encourages others that God loves them as they are.

Gennee

[HELENz]

Nice to meet you. (=

[appoint]

Hi! Where I live in Sweden, people aren't very religious so if they demean LGBT people, it's for other reasons. Probably cause they're insecure of themselves. I know many gay people and I think a lot of the swedish population is really acceptable which I think is very good. Both young and old seem to accept it.

But then they're always groups of haters, that hate people of the "wrong" skincolor, gays, etc. Let's just hope these people one day open their eyes!

[HELENz]

Originally Posted by appoint

Hi! Where I live in Sweden, people aren't very religious so if they demean LGBT people, it's for other reasons. Probably cause they're insecure of themselves. I know many gay people and I think a lot of the swedish population is really acceptable which I think is very good. Both young and old seem to accept it.

But then they're always groups of haters, that hate people of the "wrong" skincolor, gays, etc. Let's just hope these people one day open their eyes!

Sounds like Sweden is pretty cool, minus a few.