Hello to all

[dingbat]

I just wanted to say hello to everyone out there and introduce myself. I am a gay man who has struggled with this since I was around 5. I am so glad that I found this site.

I have always hated the gloom and doom preachers telling me that I am going to hell just cause I am gay. And worst of all they say this every week.

Why cant we preach on how to be more christ like each day? I am now because of this site, working on starting my own church that is sda and letting others that its ok to be gay and christian.

So, with that said, I will say good day and will talk to ya all later.

dingbat

[HELENz]

Welcome! I am sorry to hear about the gloom and doom; It is all too common, and far to focused on... They do a lot more harm, and what's worse it is I'm not quite sure they care. Many are hurting, and a lot won't (from what I see) listen to cries for compassion... There's a quote from a book I was using for my theology paper (on the topic of homosexuality)... It speaks well to this subject.

It's long, but I'm gunna post the whole darn thing:
"Any interpretation of Scripture that hurts people, oppresses people, or destroys people cannot be the right interpretation, no matter how traditional, historical, or exegetically respectable. There can be no debate about the fact that the church’s stand on homosexuality has caused oppression, loneliness, self-hatred, violence, sickness, and suicide for millions of people. If the church wishes to continue with its traditional interpretation it must demonstrate, not just claim, that it is more loving to condemn homosexuality than to affirm homosexuals. Can the church show that same-sex loving relationships damage those involved in them? Can the church give compelling reasons to believe that it really would be better for all lesbian and gay Christians to live alone, without the joy of intimate touch, without hearing a lover’s voice when they go to sleep or awake? Is it really better for lesbian and gay teenagers to despise themselves and endlessly pray that their very personalities be reconstructed so that they may experience romance like their straight friends? Is it really more loving for the church to continue its worship of “heterosexual fulfillment” (a “non-biblical” concept, by the way) while consigning thousands of its members to a life of either celibacy or endless psychological manipulations that masquerade as “healing”?

The burden of proof in the last twenty years has shifted. There are too many of us who are not sick, or inverted, or perverted, or even “effeminate,” but who just have a knack for falling in love with people of our own sex. When we have been damaged, it has not been due to our homosexuality but to others’ and our own denial of it. The burden of proof now is not on us, to show that we are not sick, but rather on those who insist that we would be better off going back into the closet. What will “build the double love of God and of our neighbor”? (pgs. 49-50)" - Dale Martin, distinguished New Testament scholar.

And good luck with your church. (= May it be blessed.

[Rayn]

hello. I can relate to just about anything you have said. It angers me just how much this struggle has taken from my life. It's hard to hear that you have been struggling ever since the young age of 5 years old. I first experienced my victimization of "spiritual violence" around high school from reading about homosexuality on Christian websites. I hope you are confident and comfortable now if you have been looking at the resources on this site as well as other sites like Epistle.us. I'm still struggling with dealing with the inner hatred and anger over what this issue has done to me however. Sometimes I can put it aside and do what I have to do everyday, yet I am completely gray. By "gray" I mean that I cannot simply enjoy anything in life, even though I still try to keep my chin up and do what I have to do each day.

[Gennee]

Welcome to the site, Dingbat. You make some great points because GLBT people are ostacised because of who we are. I pray that God will help to you to start a church that is open to everyone.

Gennee

[BruceChris]

Almost everything I find tells me that any scientific study of sexual orientation will say that our S.O. is something that we are born with. Whenever someone claiming to have a scientific basis that says that it is a choice, they almost always have a fear based ideological or theological belief system just below the surface. If it's a choice, that's because our S.O. choses us, we don't chose it.

Saying that we are born a certain way, is saying that God made us that way. God would not make us defective, just so that He (or She) would find us to be an abomination.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

"Nobody in science now believes that sexual orientation is caused by events in adolescence...Homosexuality is an early, probably prenatal and irreversible preference." Author and geneticist Matt Ridley

We have described a number of studies which show that the propensity towards homosexuality is traceable either to:

* Genetic causes at conception, or
* Environmental causes in the womb before birth
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

I can find many reputable sources like that one. Here are a couple of sources, but hey, you can Google as well as I can. I used

scientific study cause OR origin "of sexual orientation" The Advanced search helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus4.htm

http://borngay.procon.org/view.answe...uestionID=1335

Peace and Love, BruceChris

[HELENz]

One of the arguments that just goes over the heads of the adversary is the question of choice... I've been reading some of the debates on Christianforums.com, and some of the people on there ignore what is plainly fact and still insist it's a choice. I don't know of anyone who would choose to be ostrasized by people and looked down upon. I wouldn't... Even after some of the members on there tell them that it has clearly not been a choice (known they were different since age 5) and that they have actually struggled against it for years to the point of being suicidal, they still persist in saying "keep praying away the gay" and ignore the fact that the person is hurting. I should post what one of the people said. It was...

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I'm sorry, but they don't show much compassion (at least not to me) or love, which they claim they do. =(

The problem is, they're so set in their ways, it'll be darn near impossible for them to change their minds - if they can ignore what's being said by people in the forum! It's tiring...

My last two cents: I certainly didn't wake up one morning and decide "oh, I'm straight". I've just always been attracted to men - natural-born!

[dingbat]

I want to thank all of you for sharing. I have battled the suicide thing several times but I havent tried or even really thought about it since I was 18 and I am in my 30's now.

I knew I was different at an early age and I believe that kids know what they are even if one cant put a name to it. Yes, I am finding great support on this site. I am so glad that this site is here.

I hope that anyone who reads these posts no matter how old they are will see that they are not alone. And to the preachers, I say this: Start teaching the love of god and not hate. Jesus TAUGHT how to live for him each day and so we need to learn this for our lives.

Pull the plank out of your own eyes before you try to pull the splinter out of mine. Start showing the love of god in your own lives so I can see how its done and then I can show his love toward others.

I dont hate the gloom and doom preachers, I just want them to love me like Jesus does and let him make the choice to condemn me or not.

Thanks for listening folks.

dingbat

[HELENz]

Always around to listen. I'm one of those crazy straight folks who think that love means more than gender... Crazy, right? I also think that people shouldn't be hurting and suicidal. Crazy, right? (=

"I dont hate the gloom and doom preachers, I just want them to love me like Jesus does and let him make the choice to condemn me or not." -- I like this attitude! It's a total Soulforce attitude! *thumbs up*