Church for salvation?

[donovan]

Greetings to you brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus our Lord

I have a question

There are many churches and they have their own man made rules and far from biblical teachings. My question is do you have to go to church in your oppinion to be saved? Where does it say you must?

The bible does tell us fellowship is important but that can be done in many other ways

1) Online
2) In groups
3) In family prayer

Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

Most churches do not accept gay people they reject them, they commit the same sins of Sodom by rejecting the needy and helping those in strife.

Is church attendance NECESSARY ACCORDING TO BIBLICAL SCRIPTURES to be SAVED

[Daniel]

Church, or no church, what is this business with being 'saved?" Saved from what? Being gay? I really don't like where you are going with this.

[donovan]

No Daniel
I am not saying you must be saved for been gay

I am gay myself and very proud of that. I believe that Jesus accepts all of those who believe in him, also those that change the word of God to hurt gay people are going to get what they deserve. Now we all need to be saved? Saved from what you say? From Sin, Jesus paid that price.

What i am asking is it needed to go to church to go to heaven?

[antiochian]

Hello there. I know a little bit about this stuff, as I've belonged to several churches, two of which claimed to be the only true Church. I've been Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox. Two of these 3 say they're the real deal.

There was a time I agreed with Cyprian of Carthage, who wrote, "He cannot have God for his Father who does not have the Church as his Mother."

I've changed in these last few years. Today, my beliefs are a hodgepodge of various religions. I venerate nature. I chant and drum. I try to imitate Christ's message of unconditional love and mercy. And I attend an Anglo-Catholic parish. And while the Bible contains some beautiful poetry and much truth, I don't worship it as the "only" source of truth.

Which religion has it right? All of them and none of them. Our finite minds aren't capable of deciphering a power far higher than ourselves.

I believe that I will see my Christian loved ones in heaven. And my Wiccan friends, and my Buddhist friends, and my aetheist friends (who will be pleasantly surprised!). We are not "saved" from bowing to the right god, and following the right rules, but by living a life of kindness.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by donovan

No Daniel
I am not saying you must be saved for been gay

I am gay myself and very proud of that. I believe that Jesus accepts all of those who believe in him, also those that change the word of God to hurt gay people are going to get what they deserve. Now we all need to be saved? Saved from what you say? From Sin, Jesus paid that price.

What i am asking is it needed to go to church to go to heaven?

Glad to hear that you aren't a homophobe.

Since the Kingdom is Within, church is rather beside the point.

[bnmoore]

Someone I consider wise once said " We must be careful not to rob people of their God unless we can give them a better one, for that is the most destructive thing in the world. I would rather see someone with a poor idea of Deity than to see them have no concept of Deity at all, because we must all interpret God through our perception of Divine Being."

Are you familiar with the school of thought that says that Jesus spent the missing years in India, Nepal, and Tibet?

Has anyone ever read Paramahansa Yogananda's discourses on the four gospels?

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by bnmoore

Someone I consider wise once said " We must be careful not to rob people of their God unless we can give them a better one, for that is the most destructive thing in the world. I would rather see someone with a poor idea of Deity than to see them have no concept of Deity at all, because we must all interpret God through our perception of Divine Being."

Are you familiar with the school of thought that says that Jesus spent the missing years in India, Nepal, and Tibet?

Has anyone ever read Paramahansa Yogananda's discourses on the four gospels?

Haven't read the discourses, but did read the autobiography. Also visited his house in Encinitas California. My guy grew up not a stone's throw away. And I have to say, the first time I was there- about 10 years ago- there was something- a presence- of the man still about.

[Pablo Rafael]

I would say that one most certainly does NOT have to go to church to get to heaven. I do not think one HAS to DO anything. Eternal life is a gift from God. That being said, however, I think that belonging to a faith community is important. I personally find much strength and focus from going to church. I love liturgy and ceremony. I love music. I appreciate seeing the viewpoints of others.

My belief is that God's grace flows out upon us; it is most clearly shown in the life death and resurrection of Christ. Eternal life is given to all who believe. It is interesting that we have changed what the word translated "believe" means over time and consequently changed our religion as well. The early English word and the word used in the Greek New Testament means to love something strongly, to hold it in one's heart. It does not mean to verify that something is true. Jesus says we must believe in Him. We must love Him and hold him in our heart. We can believe in Jesus, but we do not believe in teachings. Doctrines are not to be loved and held in one's heart.

Modern Christianity often has systems of doctrines the people are required to believe. But that type of belief is not what is mentioned in the New Testament. We can never believe in a thing for salvation, only in God.

Though I am a Christian I think that the grace of God is bigger than just a system of doctrines or way of thinking. It is my belief that the grace of God flows from the cross even to people who may not be Christian. How does that work? I have no idea. But I know that God desires that everyone be saved.

I am quite happy being an Episcopalian because in the Episcopal church I find a desire to question and explore. There is not a right and a wrong way. Searching is part of the process of growing in the faith. We can all be different in our understanding of God and still be children of God.

[Gennee]

I accepted Jesus into my heart at my bunkbead. You don't have to be in church to be saved. I do attend church with like minded folks for encouragement and spiritual strength. Many people have been saved outside of the church buildings.


Gennee

[antiochian]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

I am quite happy being an Episcopalian because in the Episcopal church I find a desire to question and explore. There is not a right and a wrong way. Searching is part of the process of growing in the faith. We can all be different in our understanding of God and still be children of God.

On the beliefnet forums, I've been engaging other Anglicans, a couple of which say I have no business joining the Episcopal Church because I don't necessarily *believe* in the orthodox doctrines. That's interesting, becauce I thought TEC valued diversity. I like your explanation of what it means to believe.

I haven't accepted Christ as my "Lord and Savior" per se, and don't see him as the only way to God, but I love him and hold him in my heart as an example of selfless love and compassion that is worth following.

My definition of a good church: one where you don't have to leave your brain in the narthex each Sunday. Like you, Pablo, I love liturgy and ceremony... the whole high-tech megachurch scene just isn't for this boy--more incense, less nonsense, thank you--so I've found my new parish a good place to discern and explore my relationship with Jesus.

But ultimately, Daniel's right. The kingdom's within. The most beautiful cathedrals on earth are filled with souls who wouldn't know spirituality if it ran up their pants legs and bit their fannies.

The Dalai Lama said our brains and hearts are the true temples.

[koneill08]

Donovan and others:

To answer your question you must define what church is in order to say yes or no. If church is defined as the organized, institutionalized, hierarchical, business system it has become, then definitely NO, you don't have to go one of those in order to be saved. Simply working in any industry could save you then.

Jesus didn't come to create the same "order" of church that was already present in the world (hebrew or otherwise). He came to define church as a living, organic expression of spirit (energy) and that within that kind of organic church there is no hierarchy. How many times did he desribe the kingdom in terms of things natural? Trees, birds, crops, sowing and reaping, water, wind? He never once described his Kingdom (the kingdom of heaven in which you are asking about) as a hierarchical structured system where you have a leader and then you have followers. In fact, he spoke out against it. How many times did he tell his followers who were always arguing about who would be first in the new kingdom that it would not be that way in his kingdom. Some would argue, well he was a leader and his disciples were his followers. In fact, Jesus never described it that way. The writers of the texts might have (and they would have both political and monetary reasons for doing so). Jesus always said, to be first you must be last, to be greatest, you must become the least. Wasn't that his example with donning the towel and washing the disciples feet? He was showing them, there is no hierarchy here. We are all servants, we are all equal. Only God is in charge. That's it. Church is meant to be a circle always flowing, no beginning, no end. It's not a triangle with God on top, Jesus in lower corner and HS in the other corner. Nor is it in the form of a business organization chart. It's the circle of life. That's all.

So the question becomes if church is a man made structure, can you really be "saved" in it? Is it a requirement? No. Not even in the organic expression of church. The only requirement for being saved (as if that's even defined as a one time event, which its not and could take a separate post to explain) the only requirement is to "wake up" to the Spirit of God who lives in you. That's it.

[BrianB]

It is not strictly necessary for salvation but Hebrews 10:25 says this:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


It doesn't have to be a church building. In fact, we are assembled here from a certain point of view. I think as long as you are in communication with other people that believe it's fine.