Just wanted to thank Dr. Mel White for his book

[bowzerbird]

[Funny, I joined several years ago but now am finally posting]
Been reading Mel's book, "Holy Terror: Lies the Christian Right Tells Us to Deny Gay Equality" and his comparison of Nazi Germany to the radical Christian fundamentalist right has many comparative truths. I too was a fundamentalist many years ago until I came out, and acquainted with Falwell, Kennedy, Robertson, Graham & Dobson, even donated to their ministries.

As the years passed, my eyes were finally opened to the twisted brainwashing they have come to believe. As Joseph Goebbels said, [not exact quote] perpetrate a lie enough and eventually it will be believed!

The Christian Bible wants to surpass our Constitution and if in ANYWAY it disagrees with the Bible, the Bible MUST transcend our own government. How can they be so naive???

The bottom line, Without using violence, but using the voting system, they are desperately trying to "win" over the populous with their diatribe of evil falsehoods. Thank you Mel for a wonderfully insightful book. Can't put it down <> almost finished. I too have "been" where you have and as Paul in Acts stated, the Bereans searched the scriptures night & day to see if what he said was true. I too have searched and FOUND MORE TRUTH in WHAT YOU have said in your book then what those fundamentalists have ravaged the airwaves with for so many years. Sometimes it just takes folks longer than others to come around. Better late then never and again, Dr. Mel White, you are one of those Angels mentioned in Hebrews: Hebrews 13:2

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it. You ARE my Angel!! Thanks!!

Also, I emailed a cousin about something from Mel's book that I want to include here:

In reading the following book [under 2 titles]:
1. Holy Terror: Lies the Christian Right Tells Us to Deny Gay Equality
2. Religion Gone Bad: The Hidden Dangers of the Christian Right [hard cover]
The author, Mel White who ghosted for Jerry Falwell, D. James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham & others, came out late in life and has realized that the so called fundamental Christian right is as dangerous as Nazi Germany. So much to tell from his book but he compared the movie, "The Eternal Jew" and what Hitler & Nazi Germany did to convince German citizens that the Jews were a race of filthy, money hungry etc. [you're heard it, don't need to elaborate] animals, basically.

He compared the radical right's desire of usurping the Constitution [USA] with the Bible. If the Constitution IN ANY WAY should disagree with the Bible, the Bible would be the higher law. They really want to "win" the battle over abortion & Homosexuality. Look at all the laws they are trying to pass regarding women's rights.

But, anyway, found the link to the movie and man, how could anyone be convinced that we are how they "picture" us? Again, the same question is raised: How can anyone be convinced by the radical right of the falsified facts they perpetrate. Brainwashing . . . . Joseph Goebbels said, if a lie is told frequently enough, eventually, it will be believed!

Just like I told you yesterday, people have really "dumbed" themselves down. When I'm told something, I don't just accept it verbatim as unequivocal fact, not disputable! With the Net, we can research so much and find the truth. Although, the truth now can be as gray as the lie because again, folks don't investigate to find all the details to prove false or true.
Yea, I'm rambling here, kinda rant & rave thang. But anyway, watch the movie, absolutely an abomination to us JEWS!! Let me know if ya agree. sure ya will!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70629122885245

Maybe you all can watch the movie and see just what Mel is inferring. The rad-right want to convince the public we are evil, deviant, perverted, dirty animals, just like in this movie the Nazi's wanted to convince the German citizenry what the Jews were.

HOW HORRIBLE, we must stop the lies!

What would Jesus do? He is weeping today as He did 2000 years ago.

Don't mean to sound so negative, I'm a very optimistic cwayzee fun loving individual. Just wanted to give a heads up here and READ Mels' book!!!!!!!

Ellen

[inca nitta]

I haven't been here in years, but the discussion of Mr. White's book has caught my attention, because I have read this book, under the original title "Religion gone bad," though, but the message is still the same. Just to be clear, Mr. White was not directly comparing well-known leaders of the Christian Right of the USA with Hitler and the Nazis, and he even stated so, but what he did, is that he pointed out what he saw as a similarity between the Eternal Jew (thanks to the link, btw) and similar anti-Jewish propaganda of that time with what these fundamentalists have been writing about homosexuality. He also offered a speculation, about whether the American gay community is planned on enduring the same fate that happened with European Jews.

As a reader of his book, I am also having a speculation after reading it. First off, I can only wonder where did Mel White get the idea that the leaders of Religious Right want to replace the Constitution with the Bible? As far as I remember, the late Jerry Falwell has said 30 years ago that conservative evangelical Christians should implement their belief into our lawmaking. This is their right, the same one given to all citizens, regardless of their religious beliefs, or beliefs in no god. Everybody has a right to participate in political process, and whoever gets the most popular vote would win. This is what our Constution allows us to do, so conservative evangelical Christians are not any different than people of other faiths, atheists, pro-choicers, gays, strarghts, etc. Mel White is also incorrect about saying that our Constitution guarantees secularism, aka separation of state and church, meaning that people are forbidden to put their diverse religious beliefs in shaping public policies. Quite the opposite is true, and it's been like that for 236 years. Thus, his argument about conservative Christians wanting to replace the Constitution with the Bible does not logically make sense.

My speculation is that Mel White and Soulforce would dream about having a society where our religious freedom is being seriously altered, where conservative evangelicals cannot proselytize in public, because their preaching offend gays, people of other faiths, women, and so forth. In other words, based on the way the book is written, Soulforce would maybe like to have a society with "hate speech" laws (kinda like Canada and Western Europe) specifically targeting conservative evangelical Christians.

I think that after this book got published, Soulforce started losing its popularity, which explains why today, there's hardly any postings, here. These days, many people, young and old, tend to follow other gay Christian leaders such as John Corvino, Justin Lee, and Ralph Blair. These individuals and others are focused on building bridges between people with different beliefs, by trying to figure out how to live peacefully with each other, despite having strong disagreements on the proper sexual relationshps and the definition of marriage, instead of assuming the worst possible things about each other.

[bowzerbird]

You need to read the teachings of Rousas John Rushdoony & Reconstructionism. His teachings have been embraced by D. James Kennedy [dead], James Dobson and others just to name a few. I have been acquainted with both, having tithed to them many years ago. Listened daily to them on AM radio for many years too. Now seeing through all their hype, I have "disowned" them because they believe in Rushdoony's teachings.

I'll still defend and embrace ALL that Mel states in his book because from all the brain washing I had to endure [thank God, never embraced] I know it's true.
Another GREAT book with incredible insight:
"The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power": Jeff Sharlet

Sorry to disappoint you but Mel's book IS ON THE MONEY.
We can keep this discussion on going and defend our theories till Hell freezes over but since 1976 having given my life to Jesus Christ BUT NOT fundamentalist diatribe and knowing my Bible and the teachings of all the evangelicals in Mel's book [as I said, having tithed to many: BTW, even gave $400 once to Pat "Rubberhead" aka Robertson], their patriarchal roots run so deep it's sad & scary. They could never accept women in power as in President of the USA [Hilary? ] and are afraid of giving women their right place in society: along side men.
That's why they are sooooo afraid of Homosexuality . . . one man "assumes" a feminine role in the relationship and that scares them. Simplistically speaking.
Just look at what is happening in this campaign race!! Trying to put women back more than 5 decades of accomplishments!! Santorum and Akin <> need I say more.
D-O-N-E.
Just investigate further, MEL IS RIGHT, HASN'T EXAGGERATED AND HIS FACTS CAN & ARE BACKED UP. From one who has been there and now is "FREE AT LAST, GOD ALMIGHTY I'M FREE AT LEAST!!

[inca nitta]

I don't like what Rushdoony says anymore what typical Radical Left is saying. For you, I highly suggest you check with Ralph Blair, another gay Christian leader, founder of Evangelicals Concerned. It will help you a lot as it did me.

[bowzerbird]

Originally Posted by inca nitta

I don't like what Rushdoony says anymore what typical Radical Left is saying. For you, I highly suggest you check with Ralph Blair, another gay Christian leader, founder of Evangelicals Concerned. It will help you a lot as it did me.

Just perused through his site and will read some of his writings soon. However . . . the vantage point Mel takes is different: He talks from his experiences with the radical right evangelicals. AND from MY experiences with several of them, ALL I'm saying is, I STILL agree with Mel White on his analysis, experiences, conclusions and especially, HIS personal relationships with these individuals [far more intimate then mine] and like I said, I AGREE WITH HIM. His descriptions of what & who they are, what they have done is correct.
Ever been acquainted with NARTH & their teachings [Joseph Nicolosi & reparative therapy]? Kennedy, Dobson, Falwell & Robertson literally "worship" NARTH & their teachings.

Again, I just want to reiterate that from my opinion and my experiences with the radical right since 1976, I totally agree with Mel White and his theories. I have experienced what he theorizes and know it to be fact. His statements has been overwhelmingly proven T_R_U_E!!
Ralph Blair & Mel White just come from two different perspectives. Look at it from that point of view . . . If you can.

[GODISUNIVERSAL]

His book was nice, he sounded like a sensible guy, then i discovered he believes that God (love) WANTS to save His entire creation but cant and ends up burning most in a big fire. He accepts modern bibles mistranslate words like 'homosexual' but can't get his head around the fact that modern bibles also mistranslate words such as 'eternal' and 'hell'. Sounds a bit...PICKY to me. And you cant be picky with the word of God... Just another cult really, another denomination. There are already 30 odd thousand, youd think that would be enough.

[bowzerbird]

Originally Posted by GODISUNIVERSAL

His book was nice, he sounded like a sensible guy, then i discovered he believes that God (love) WANTS to save His entire creation but cant and ends up burning most in a big fire. He accepts modern bibles mistranslate words like 'homosexual' but can't get his head around the fact that modern bibles also mistranslate words such as 'eternal' and 'hell'. Sounds a bit...PICKY to me. And you cant be picky with the word of God... Just another cult really, another denomination. There are already 30 odd thousand, youd think that would be enough.

First off, as a Christian, we all should know a cult from true Christianity [read Dr. Walter Martin's book, "Kingdom of the Cults"], including romney & mormonism.
And Mel White doesn't believe that God will "end" the world in a great fire.
Here's another author's works you could consider regarding the writing & interpretation of the Bible:
http://www.bartdehrman.com/books.htm [Bart Ehrman]. A scholar of the Bible and here's three titles of his I have read and gleaned much:
1. Lost Scriptures [Gnostic books etc.]
2. Misquoting Jesus
3. Jesus Interrupted

And if you have read any of his books and think he's way off base, sorry. His scholarly studies make sense to me especially about HOW the Bible was written & rewritten. They didn't have "copy" machines back then [LOL] and had to rewrite the papyras as the previous ones decayed. In those days, there were few scholars doing the rewrites, so laymen "tried" to interpret what they read to transcribe on the new papyras. Hebrew, when written back then only used the consonants and not the vowels. If the papyra was illegible, they "guessed" or "interpreted" what it said and well, it's like playing "Telephone" after hearing the 10th person "say" what the starter originally said, it gets "jumbled" and is not what originally was written [as in the Bible, not the Telephone game that is].

I really could go on & on etc.. Hate typing, better on the telly, but you're international LD and it would cost too much.

Just a bottom line: I never knew the evangelists as intimately as Mel did [Dobson, Kennedy, Falwell etc.] but having tithed to them, read their books, listened to their radio broadcasts and videos from 1976 - 2004, I believe every word he wrote regarding how they conducted their lives and spewed their diatribe to their "constituents." And for many years I believed them too until, I finally "saw the light." Mel, is RIGHT ON THE MONEY, in my opinion.
Ellen

[JasonRa]

I don't like what Rushdoony says anymore what typical Radical Left is saying.