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#21
05-06-2006, 01:58 AM
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Maybe it wasn't important
Here is an interesting mental exercise. I tell you a piece of information about a person. You tell me what you know about the person just from what I have said. OK, here's the information: The person is heterosexual.
Here is another point of view, which I agree with. But Jack Roberts puts it well. "The acceptance of people who are homosexual is grounded in the central message of Scripture as interpreted through the lens of Jesus' life and ministry." The Lord didn't make many "this specifically is ok" statements. But the big "this you do" ones are about loving God, each other, and our enemies. Thanks for your input. Montanna 
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#22
05-06-2006, 03:01 AM
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Jesus Loves Me This I know
Lets see...
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Not sure about exactly how and why homos are seen the way we are. I can't help but wonder just how real and big the influence of Christianity actually are sometimes, both across the planet and through out changing times... ( I'll put more thought into it later but I gotta pee right now) Quote:
__________________
shamelessselfpromotion Last edited by awediot; 05-06-2006 at 03:38 AM.
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#23
05-06-2006, 10:38 AM
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3, 6, 9, 10, 12
I guess despite what I feel I can look at scripture and argue homosexuality being a sin and not being a sin.
I having been in a long term relationship I know it felt right and we loved each other. But I pause and ask no matter how right I feel does that make it right? Or am I telling my self that it is right to feel better about my self. To boil it down; I know that no matter what there is a God that loves me and a Savior who died for me. I know when I am in the darkest times in my life I can keep my eyes on Him and His love will be with me always. So it comes down to living my life as the moment tells me I should live for God. If you’re confused I guess that is how I feel. -Venari
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#24
05-06-2006, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
But it's a sweet idea.
__________________
"The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract." -Oliver Wendell Holmes-
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#25
05-06-2006, 07:02 PM
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14 - Other..
I was very very religious as a child, which made me have a hard time admitting my sexuality to myself. When I reached a place where I realized I would never change and that I was actually happy with women, I realized that my Catholic church would never accept me.
I turned away from the church before it had a chance to reject me because I was afraid of what would happen. I've been exploring many other religions for a while now and still haven't found any particular one that fits me well enough to stay. I do believe in God - or whatever one calls that higher power - and I worship in my own personal way.  My number 14 would be Fear of Rejection because it drove me away from the church so strongly that I don't know if I could ever return to it and feel comfortable. It has nothing to do with God and everything to do with his people.
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No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody. - Rita Mae Brown
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#26
05-06-2006, 08:17 PM
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boxed in
Quote:
 ...and, back to the purpose of this thread... It is very true that it can change as we grow, or slide back or shift off to the side. Though the term, 'ulp, "compartmentalization" (#5), kicks in that "I am not a Number!" defense, nor Tupperware away cherry pickins at my whim, I truly see no significance to God's judgment toward sexual 'orientation' itself. But the phrase "my sexuality", also used in that sentence, encompasses more than just my orientation. Gayness to me has nothing to do with it... Which is #7 as well. Which I'm comfortable with.
__________________
shamelessselfpromotion
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#27
05-07-2006, 12:06 PM
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You are wrong God call it un-natural
You are wrong God call it un-natural. It also fall in under fornication and that is wrong.
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#29
05-07-2006, 01:43 PM
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God also did not say a child molerster is wrong in any verse. God never said sniffing cocaine is wrong either in any verse. We all know it is wrong.
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#31
05-07-2006, 02:43 PM
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Thinking outside of the Books
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In another thread I asked the question: Why is _________ a sin? When fornication, drunkeness, thievery, deception, killing etc. are inserted in that blank, the person asking the question looks quite mad if they cannot see the consequences of those actions. That is untrue when homosexuality fills in the blank. There are no automatic negative consequences. The inference of promiscuity, drug addiction, resulting disease and general misery are the result of pain inflicted by society, not naturally and unavoidably occurrences associated directly with the action... Sins make sense, even if one had never heard of the Bible or its God. Homosexuality does not share the same qualities... Why, other than someone said God said, do you think it is a sin?
__________________
shamelessselfpromotion
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#32
05-07-2006, 04:24 PM
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If you can show a verse in the Bible that hints that homosexuality is ok, I will believe you. If we are seeking God's will, we seek thus saith the lord not man's opnions
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#33
05-07-2006, 05:01 PM
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ExGayBiz, those verses that come to mind are more general assurances that I am loved, and having repented, am forgiven. As a young man, I repented for homosexual acts that I had not done yet. I repented for thoughts that God never lifted a finger to ease. I repented for lieing to and using women as props, deceiving my family and friends. And it only made me lonelier, and gayer. And more suicidal... If God must forgive me for playing the cards He Himself has dealt me, so be it. I have given up trying to do what others tell me God wants me to do, and have grown enough to just listen to Him. If I am wrong, my sincerity and years of prayerful effort to discover and correct that wrongness, to be fair, ought to count for something in Gods eyes. If it doesn't, I have no desire to spend eternity with such a being... I do not care if you believe me or not. The One I care about assures me He does. And it is not merely man's opinion. As you can see, I take that with a grain of salt, even when it agrees with me.
Please answer my question above if you can...
__________________
shamelessselfpromotion
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#34
05-07-2006, 05:03 PM
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All the "thus saith the Lord's" are for a specific time, place, culture. Many lessons can be drawn from them for us today, but not all can be equally applied. even those who wish to condemn homosexuality based on certain verses, choose to ignore other verses that are nearby, as well as verses in remote places that no one chooses to follow today. as an example: 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 talks about women covering their heads or cutting their hair. it also mentions that men should not have long hair. Does anyone follow this scripture today? why not?
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#35
05-10-2006, 12:29 AM
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Call me 007
Yes....I'm making a pun in the title. And yes. I am a 7.
I grew up Hungarian Reformed- the name tells you the history- Catholics Reformed. Then, during my adolescence I was Assemblies of God- quite fundamental in fact- Spoke in Tongues with the best of them. Later, after coming out in my late 20's, I swam in the waters of meditation and Eastern Philosophy. Read a great deal. Found my way in the winding and twisting Path that lies within each of us and found much wisdom in the works of the Saints, Gnostics and Desert Fathers and many other Mystics. They tread paths that lie hidden in plain sight. Now, many years later, I cannot hear the words of fundamentalists without hearing a babble of sounds. It sounds all tinny to these ears now more accustomed to Sweeter Musick. The gay part? Well. I thought I would die and split apart when I realized that I really was gay- I thought that Love could not love me- I was so very trained to think that you see. Love was silent on the matter only because I was making a god-awful noise. It was only after I learned about stopping all that chatter that I learned what Love had to say in its Still Small Wordless Whisper.
__________________
Be the love you seek. Last edited by Daniel; 05-10-2006 at 11:53 PM.
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#36
05-10-2006, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Work my state job Drive a car Go to the movies, out to eat, on vacations ?? Have a pet ?? Ride my horse (any examples of a WOMAN riding a HORSE?) Wear pants Eat chocolate cake and ice cream Have a TV, stereo (listen to recorded music), computer Call someone on the telephone I could go on and on but you ought to see the point by now. Spirituality, sin and salvation are very personal issues that are between God and the individual, and those 2 only. The only person who knows my heart is myself and my God. Not any friends, framily or you or anyone else. Why do some people who call themselves Christians insist on cleaning everyone else's 'house' up and forget about their own. If each person took care of their own 'house' and their own relationship with God and let everyone else do the same, what a wonderful world that would be. Same old arguments, they don't hold up, we (the GLBT community) must push our 'agenda' (if you will/must call it that) which is nothing more than equal rights protected under our country's constitution and the ability to live our life like anyone else without fear of violence or having our rights taken away - we must push this because of people who feel we are less than equal, less than human, less than anyone God could love or save. Jesus says his salvation is sufficient for us/me/you. Isn't that enough for you? Or is that particular verse a lie? Between me and my Lord - He has blessed me with acceptance of who I am, who He created me to be, acceptance of myself by myself and acceptance of myself by Him. I thank Him that I do not need acceptance by any other human being, that my eternal destination is not determined by any other human being, that my life is not dictated by any other human being, that no other human being has the authority to determine what is sin or not sin in my life or what the status of my heart is. You are right, I seek God's will and not your opinion (or that of any other human being) in my life. Which is how I am able to accept myself as a Lesbian who is also a Christian. If what you say is true Exgay Biz, then I can point to so many versus that can be perceived as downright lies. That is tragic. If you can't see that, then perhaps you don't really know the Bible that well. If you are truly interested in constructive dialogue with those of us here, why not join in various other threads where we can discuss a variety of subjects (say for instance, what pets do you have, what music do you listen to, etc.) Can anyone come up with something new????? SSDD...
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#39
05-10-2006, 08:21 PM
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I'm not sure that the language of #13 describes me (at least yet), but in the sense that I am so far removed from the evangelicalism in which I once lived and thought and acted, #13 approximates my experience. I still pray; I still love Jesus. And yet none of my straight evangelical friends would consider me a Christian. And I so do not identify with the liberal, pluralistic Christianity/mysticism at the "inclusive" church I tried attending (and which seems to pervade the "gay Christian" community). I consider myself more of a rationalist.
In any event, I am comfortable with what I have always been. And I don't want to go back to the state of self-loathing, loneliness and struggle that I experienced for the 30+ years of my youth. I just commit myself to God and His mercy. That's not very conclusive, but that's where I live.
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