Our Bridge

[SBP]

Originally Posted by Vortex

Because if this is true it would mean the altruism does not exist. I'm not ready to accept that.

...amazing thread~! It is threads such as this one, with the phenomenally insightful dialogue that it promotes that makes me feel SO privileged to walk among the likes of all of you~!!! Vortex, Daniel, Dash, Jennifer, Schoolboi, Joe, Vanessa, of course Zerbie (!) and everone else, you give me hope for the future~!

If I may offer my distinctly "non-traditional" viewpoint, I like Vortex's analogy of our common heritage as being on opposite banks of the same river. As I've said in other threads, it is exactly this commonality that is, at the same time, both our greatest threat AND our greatest opportunity~! It is our "challenger's" (Thank you Z, I don't like to use the word "enemy" when referring to my "brothers".) greatest fear..that which motivates their actions, to see UNDENIABLY, that we are SO much more alike than we are different. That fear is our greatest threat. But, such as Yin/Yang, that threat cannot exist without its equal counterpart, opportunity. The opportunity lies in bringing that truth to light SO powerfully that NO attempts to distort it through fear can succeed. The biggest challenge in that is to confront that fear with hope. To show those that fear what they perceive to be our "differences", that the fear is baseless and that we are all bound so much more strongly by our universal likenesses.

I do think though, that such terms as altruism and objectivity, despite being noble in intent, are, in fact, fallacy and don't exist (not purely anyway) in the real world. We are, each of us, a distinctly unique prism...formed by the unique experiences, trials, etc. that each of us goes through in life. That prism distorts the purity of what enters it according to its unique properties and is not "exactly" the same for any 2 people. I suggest that the alternative should be empathy. That in any given situation, we try within the limits of our human frailties and fallabilities, to attempt to understand our brother's viewpoint rather than vilify it. To use coherent logic and the strength of our compassion to "clean their lenses" when fear obscures them.

Anyway, you get the idea. Imagine...if the leaders of the world could have the kind of dialogue we have here in this forum, mankind might actually find our "Bridge"~!

Peace & Love 2 U All~!!

[nowvoyager]

I've come to it late and have spent much time reading it, and I just wanted to thank you all for your thoughts and insights, and thank Vortex for starting it.

I think there are two ways in which anger is immediately spiritually unhealthy - one is where anger is acted upon with violent intent, and the other where anger is choked down and churns into resentment and depression. Both do incredible violence to the opponent or to the self, and just don't fit the golden rule at all.

As for when anger as a human emotion is recognised, understood, and used to effect change, I'm not sure. I do think it can be channelled as such. However, sustaining anger as a method is less preferable than nurturing other motivations, like empathy and compassion - because I think there is always a component of violence inside anger. And so, even when anger is felt first, processed, and let go - violence has still been fed. I also think that because we live in a society drenched in anger, we can't afford to add to it one iota, even if it be for the right reasons.

And yet Jesus made a whip and threw the money-changers from the temple-- I struggle to reconcile this image with one of pacifism, and need to read much more to do so.

As for the other hidden topic in this thread - I do absolutely think moments of pure altruism exist. I think people can and do act for someone else without any benefit to themselves. I just don't think that an individual can do so all the time, or every time it is called for. Alas.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

At the moment of anger we have two choices: Violence or Love (nonviolence)

Anger is not a bad thing, it is your body's way of telling you something is wrong, injustice exists. It is all about what we do with our anger. Do we turn it into love or do we turn it into violence. Some turn that anger into violence on themself by saying violent things to themselves.

The other choice is love, turn the anger into love. Nonviolence is love.

For me, this is where the rubber meets the road: how to stay awake long enough and not get 'lost' in anger. I believe this takes an enormous amount of practice- and is akin to the creative arts- its something you do over and over and over until you get the hang of it and then you still have to get up every morning and see it you can do it again.

A concept from A Course in Miracles comes to mind here: being right vs being happy. Angry people always think they are right. Whereas happy people...well...they're just happy. They don't have to be right. I see this as the choice your are talking about Joe. Though put in other words, I think the concept is the same. It's about choosing Love. In every moment.

[Jennifer5]

Well put Joe and Daniel... I think there's definately a lot to that... it's all about choosing... Violence or Love