ministry, seminary, singleness, being gay, and other things that don't mix

[maestro_di_cappella]

Hi,

This is my first post here, but I thought it might be too much for the "introductions" section. Also, if this post is irrelevant to this site, I will gladly move it elsewhere. The only other sites I can seem to find are either sites that want to "cure" me or ones that are only interested in gay sex and "lifestyle". This site seems like a happy medium.

I am single, in my mid-twenties, attending seminary, and serving as a minister (not pastor) in a church. Both the seminary and church are politically moderate, but not necessarily friendly with the gay issue when it comes down to real-life situations.

Because of my raisin' I simply find it extremely difficult to be "out." I know that this might receive a harsh reaction here, but I simply see more negative effects from my coming out than positive. It would end communication with my family and would totally handicap my ministry, which I am very much in love with, by the way.

So, at this point I have decided to proudly wear the label "single" and live my life totally devoted to my ministry. I believe this is entirely legitimate and biblical, and it is a lifestyle that is under-respected in most Christian groups.

However, the question that keeps coming back to my mind is, What if I could actually get away with marrying a woman? I, like many of you, have had very close (though not sexual) relationships with women, and could see myself engaging in a long-term relationship and having kids and a happy life. Would this be wrong? If I can handle an abstinate single life, wouldn't I be able to handle a monagamous married life with a woman?

I suppose my motives are not really pure... marriage to a woman could help me go further in my work, and it would ease the loneliness (even though I'm totally content being single) and give me a partner to enjoy life with.

Should I even consider this option? I'm in a tough spot because my religious traditions says, "that's ok, just don't act on it" yet gives no solutions to the gay "problem". I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the legitimacy of gay men marrying women or any other related issues.

Peace!
MdC

[Dash]

I think if you mean, marry a woman and keep your sexuality a secret, then that would strike me as unfair to her, and uncool.

On the other hand, if you are honest with someone, and you both find fulfillment in being married whatever the content of your sex life, then no harm, no foul. If your bi, then hey! Lucky you! Or...well...as Zerbie has informed me...maybe it's no easier.

When I was in my twenties and not out, it was my personal, solid and unwavering conviction that I would never marry a woman. I once read a quote from a monk who said, "I'm completely homosexual. I should never marry." It stuck with me. Things might have been different if I was bisexual. I'm not. I'm a good ol' Kinsey 6, with nary a flicker of hetero inclination. My feelings being what they were, I just wouldn't hurt a girl pretending. Whatever partner I may find (and lord-willing may I find a partner!) they have the right to be with someone who fulfills them too. It can never be just about me.

About being single. I am, and have been always. It ain't easy, and not everyone is made for it. In fact, I would say that most people shouldn't try it. I'm very nearly 35, and I know almost nothing of close relationships. It's a huge part of life that I can only wonder about...a huge part of the human experience that I don't really understand.

About being closeted. I hope you find a place and time when you can be open about who you are. There are "open" places and "closeted" places in my life...and even some "semi-open/closeted"...but the freedom to be open and honest about who you are is truly priceless. There's nothing better than to be in the company of my friends who all know me from top to bottom, in and out, and up and down, and both sides now...

Ahhh....Joni Mitchell! I love Joni!

Hey! Hang around awhile, man! I hope that you don't mind us speaking our mind. Your questions are cool. And well...we tend to be pretty outspoken on most subjects.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Hi MdC and welcome to the forums! I read your post with interest and have a few questions for you (not ones that you necessarily have to post responses to, just to think about.)

When you think of someone in a sexual way, is that person a man or a woman. If it has been both, what percentage?

I ask this because many gay men I've met who come from anti-gay religious backgrounds or from families that think negatively of gay people want to believe they possess an attraction to women when, upon closer scrutiny, is not a romantic attraction at all, but rather one of friendship.

Many of us gay men have been in a place (especially in the early twenties) where staying in the closet or contemplating marrying a female friend have seemed like solutions. But they are not real solutions because the problem is always homophobia, not our homosexuality. (To say nothing about it being unfair to the heterosexual woman, who deserves someone who has sexual desire for them.)

Now, for bisexual people, it is a bit different. I'm not bisexual (probably a 6 on the Kinsey scale) so I'll let someone else offer advice there. But even still, I would think bisexuals who are self-aware should be upfront about that with any potential mate.

Only you and God know whether you are gay, heterosexual, or bisexual. And whatever you may be, I hope you feel welcome here and gain support, encourgement, and empowerment from fellow people on the journey.

[maestro_di_cappella]

I don't really consider myself bisexual at all. While I have had deep friendships with women, I have never had any sexual attraction to them. They are exactly as you described as merely friendship and not romantic. And I must agree with you, Dash, that I would never actually try to hurt another person in such a way. I would much rather be single than be in a relationship that turns miserable for everyone.

I really am fine with being single right now. Is there really anything wrong with committing to singleness, such as the monk that was quoted earlier?

The idea of being completely open with a group of people is so far off I can barely imagine it.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by maestro_di_cappella

I suppose my motives are not really pure... marriage to a woman could help me go further in my work, and it would ease the loneliness (even though I'm totally content being single) and give me a partner to enjoy life with.

Should I even consider this option? I'm in a tough spot because my religious traditions says, "that's ok, just don't act on it" yet gives no solutions to the gay "problem". I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the legitimacy of gay men marrying women or any other related issues.

Welcome to the forum!

About this 'pure motives' matter: You seem to have a sense of what's going on in your world. Have I got this right? At present, you are closeted, wanting to fit in a 'you can be gay but don't act of it' church, are considering marriage to a woman who you aren't attracted to and feeling lonely? Does that sum things up nicely?

Boy. You are in a pickle.

The difficult thing here is that the world- seminary/church/family- you currently inhabit takes a dim view of gay people and probably has no reference point in how to deal with it other than by rejecting you. I imagine that is what you fear most. And so would I under those circumstances.

Sure. You could 'get away" with it. But for how long? And what would the consequences be? I would think long and hard before I would marry a woman, have kids and then-oops- ten years down the line find myself in a deep depression, having 'unwanted' attractions to men, finding yourself online looking for hookups and perhaps having an affair with the organist (though your handle indicates that you mighht be having an affair with yourself!)

You may think your attraction to men may be managable. But I think you will find that trying to cut off that spigot will only dry up a good deal of what makes you effective. Cutting off one's sexual energy can be crippling, both spiritually and emotionally- and- I think- even have physical consequences. Even the monastics aren't immune to this concern. That's an issue not talked about much. Sexual energy seems to have a way of its own.

I found it very hard to be 'out" (I came out in 1986). Telling my parents wasn't fun, pretty, or a nice memory. My father said horrible things (which I learned years later had everything to do with him and not me- funny how that is) and my mother went around thinking it was her 'fault' for a couple years. Not a very communicative bunch, do that didn't help matters. Oh yeah. My family is pretty fundamentalist- my brother is a missionary in Hungary. All that said, I wouldn't go back in the closet for a millon bucks or a ped-a-terre in Paris or Venice (If you knew me you'd know how I'd really love the latter).

Coming out is an act of love. SelfLove. It's an act that one does when one can't bargain away one's intergrity any more. And from what you've written it sounds like you're still playing at the game table to see just how far you can get- how many chips you can get with your hand. You may get quite a few. But what's it worth to you? How many souls will you be able to save before you loose your own in the process?

If you were really 'content' to be single then the question of being married to a woman wouldn't even arise- unless- of course- your motives for marriage are for career advancement. And you've already admitted as much.

You might consider that while being married, it is still possible to be lonely, very lonely indeed. How exactly do you think your female partner will feel with a husband who wants to be with her for the simple reason that he won't be lonely? I guess you'd have to find someone who wants the same thing as you. Is that really what you want to offer someone on your honeymoon?

You need courage my friend. Courage to take the picture you've been given by others and find a better frame for it. Then you can start re-painting.

[Steven E. Webster]

Friend,
I would like to see us explore the questions you raise in a respectful and non-judgmental way.

The question that comes to mind immediately is whether you would be totally honest with your spouse to be. Before you are married, would you tell your intended spouse that you are gay? Are you sufficiently bisexual to be truly attracted to your opposite gender spouse and lead a sexually satisfying life for both you and your spouse?

I once knew two seminarians, a gay man and a lesbian, who planned to marry and go into ministry as a clergy couple. They were "in the closet" and expected to pose as heterosexual to the world. I don't know how that worked out. Were there same-sex affairs on the side? Were others hurt by this?

Frankly, I view you as kind of young, and am concerned that you not make a serious mistake. The man I am about to marry entered a marriage with his former wife in the late 1960's. He was honest with her before marriage about his attraction to other men. He and his future wife believed in those early days that they would nevertheless adjust to a happy marriage. Well they did stay together for 15 years and had two kids. They divorced and later he and I got together and raised his two daughters together. We've been together for 25 years, are planning to get a Canadian marriage, our two daughters turned out to be fabulous, educated, successful adults and we have a lovely, bright granddaughter. My finance/partner is still friends with his ex-wife, and I suppose one could say that everything worked out for the best in the end--but not the way they planned when they first got married.

I totally "blew" my chance to be a United Methodist minister 35 years ago when I came out publicly. I'm very sad not to be a minister, but I would not change a thing if I had it to do over. Actually, it kind of scares me to think what would have happened had I chosen to conceal the truth about myself "for the sake of the ministry." Would I have married a woman and had a lot of gay affairs on the side and died of AIDS like United Methodist Bishop Finis Crutchfield? (That was the true story publicized in the Texas Monthly a couple of decades ago). I couldn't rule that out. Bishop Crutchfield was a very successful Methodist Bishop and died after retiring. His secret only came out after his death. His ministry was a "success," but I have to believe that his wife and grown children were deeply hurt. It appears he was never honest with them.

I can't judge what would be right for you, but only hope to raise questions that might help you clarify what you might do.

Another question is "are you called to celibacy?" Christian tradition, grounded in Paul's writings and Jesus' teaching about "eunuchs", is that celibacy or abstinence from sex is a calling for a few, but not something to be undertaken without the call of God. Paul said, "it is better to marry than to burn (with sexual desire)." I would like to see the church give LGBT people the option to marry for this reason. Giving gays only the options of heterosexual marriage or celibacy is just not right and violates what God calls us to be.

Sounds like you are questioning whether you are really called to abstain from sex and be single and celibate. However, there is a risk that a heterosexual marriage might lead to hurt for not only you, but possibly a spouse and children. This is not a very good set of choices.

How do you think your way through all of this? Are there other questions to be considered?

Steven Webster

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by maestro_di_cappella

I really am fine with being single right now. Is there really anything wrong with committing to singleness, such as the monk that was quoted earlier?

The idea of being completely open with a group of people is so far off I can barely imagine it.

Ah.....the web...as I was writing everyone else was posting! And I would have said more (or perhaps less!) if I had known the above. I fear my post was something of a blowtorch in tone now that I've read it.

Call me passionate about the matter.

I lived through my 20's being single and sexless and didn't have the best of times. And though I have have known a few people who have gone the monastic route, it seems to be for a very few (many are called but few reallyu are chosen it seems). The affairs of the world are something to deal with before one enters those gates, not after. Your not being able to imagine being open with a group of people indicates that, as far as the gay angle is concerned (change a letter and the word becomes angel), that this is one worldly matter that needs some attention. I have a friend, who became an Orthodox brother after many years of pondering the matter. So it is possible. Though I think commiting to singleness is something to be done for the right reasons, and not to be done to avoid dealing with matters one thinks one cannot face. Because, with support, one can face anything.

[maestro_di_cappella]

I think the reason I can consider singleness at an early age is because I'm practically already married.. to my work and school. I'm one of those bozos who pride myself is always being busy and juggling several major projects at a time, so really, there are very few times that I feel lonely or bored.

I really don't want to sound desperate, depressed, or confused, because I'm not really. I'm very focused and I very much love what I do. The only thing that nags me is this whole gay thing...

The barrier keeping me from being open with anyone is really what I perceive as a lack of options. I guess I can go ahead and get this out of the way: I am Baptist (*NOT* Southern Baptist! ...though I was raised that way), but I do believe my pastor would be very supportive and not the kind of guy who would light me on fire and throw me out the door. However, he would expect either singleness or for me to deal with my "struggles" (in other words, EX-GAY). And I would be afraid of telling any friends for fear that someone I wouldn't want to know would find out.

Ah, what to do, what to do. I have always had this voice in the back of my head saying that this has all got to someday be for some reason....

[Zerbie]

First - WELCOME!! You are most welcome here.


I want to welcome you here and offer you another "ear" to listen. My sense is you are putting premature pressure on yourself to fit "the gay thing" in to some pattern or other. I don't sense any immediate external crisis, rather you seem to be pressuring yourself from all sides to follow someone else's script for how you ought to behave. You don't owe it to the gay community to come out any more than you owe it to your pastor to attend ex-gay therapy. It's YOUR life and your decision.

It sounds from what you've told us like being "out" right now would be the wrong decision for you in many ways. If so don't be. Remain open to the still small voice, practice hearing it, and it will show you your path. We can't tell you what your path is. We can offer you ideas to think about, and stories of what we have experienced, but ultimately, you must not look for answers from us, or anyone outside your own heart. Listen for the voice of God to speak to your heart. That is the most important thing. Listen to God, not us.

You are young. Allow yourself the time for life to unfold around you and your heart-connection with God to deepen. Life is weird, and strange things do happen. At this point there is no knowing what journey life has in store for you. Be honest- with any potential parter but above all with yourself, be patient, and have faith that whatever it is meant to be, will be revealed in time. You know there is a reason for all of this. Trust in that.

I wish you all the very best. Peace to you,


Zerbie

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by maestro_di_cappella

I think the reason I can consider singleness at an early age is because I'm practically already married.. to my work and school. I'm one of those bozos who pride myself is always being busy and juggling several major projects at a time, so really, there are very few times that I feel lonely or bored.

I really don't want to sound desperate, depressed, or confused, because I'm not really. I'm very focused and I very much love what I do. The only thing that nags me is this whole gay thing...

It almost sounds like you use your work and projects and school to keep your mind off the very thing that needs to be addressed, and so you find yourself here!

I can tell you from experience, don't marry someone because you think it will a) make you straight b) let you appear to be straight c) give you companionship without physical intimacy. All those things are unfair to the person entering into the marriage with you. The marriage and accompanying friendship will not take your mind off your orientation, and as Daniel has said already, it will take away your energy, your zeal, your passion. I totally ignored all of that and found myself on my way to a very real, very slow death.

Be honest with yourself and others. I can't promise that you won't lose friends and family (and I bet they already suspect) but I can promise that your life will be much better!

[LGBT FLIGHT ATTENDANT]

As my name suggests, I am not a clergyperson, or someone who spends much time in any organized religious activity. I am, however, a believer in God, and a person who has striven to live his life openly and without too much guile.

Luckily, the international airline industry, and our unions, have been at the forefront in providing domestic partner benefits equal to spouses for decades. And yes, my job is heavily a gay and lesbian occupation.

There are many ministers, priests and even a bishop on this forum. The latter is someone who might provide you with some interesting insights. They have a toddler son, and he and his one-time clergy spouse have been together for thirty years. He is in the treatment phase of advanced stage cancer, and I see that his contributions are few, but on very rare good days, I have seen him post some rather impressive stuff....even for a "non-religious guy" but spiritually centered guy, like me.

[morningrob]

If I may throw in my thoughts here.
I would affirm what others have said already- to marry somebody is probably a bad option, regardless of whether you are completely open to them or not. Sexual intimacy is an integral part of marriage and to deny that to another person would not be the most ethical of acts, in my opinion.

About the singleness option, I do not see a problem with it, sort of. First, as stated earlier, you have to be called not forced into it. If you feel that it is forced upon you you re not going to be happy and will proably act upon your feeling sin unhealthy ways. Second, to be constantly busy, as you said, might be a way of not dealing with the feelings that you have. Of couse it could also be dedication, I cannot answer that one for you.

About your ministry situation, there are Baptist traditions and other traiditions that hold to similiar principles that the Baptist tradition holds to but are more affirming of gay folks. Perhaps it might be time to explore how you can express your calling within an understandiong of those traditions.

Rob

[Jamie McDaniel]

Hey maestro_di_cappella, I'm guessing you are in the American Baptist Church. We have some great American Baptists in Soulforce. The two churches these activists have come from are University Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota and Central Baptist Church in Wayne, Pennsylvania.

Have you heard of the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America and the Alliance of Baptists? Both have taken stands for GLBT equality. Together they have produced a book titled Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth: A resource for congregations in dialogue on sexual orientation. I highly recommend that book, which can be ordered here.

Both groups have roots in the Southern Baptist Convention, though not anymore.

[Dash]

Regarding choosing to remain single, I guess my thought is this: you may not have as much choice as you would think. hah!

I serve two administrative departments at Northwestern which total eighteen people. Of those eighteen, seven are single. There are two gay men, who are both single...one 35 (that'd be me), one in his 50s. There may be a lesbian, but honestly...she keeps so much to herself that I wouldn't know. The other single people are straight women and range in age from 30 to mid-fifties. Only one of the single people has been married before, and she has a child from that relationship.

My point is that many people are single. I don't think any of the single folk in my departments chose it. We all talk about wanting a guy, but finding someone to love is not like going to the grocery store. Plus, as I once heard an old farm wife say, "They shouldn't wait too long to get married...they get too picky." Kinda true, though I think about it a bit differently. I think it's easier for young coupled people to grow together into the adults they will become. Older adults, who have already "grown into their own skin," must find someone who is more specifically fitting to the person they have already become. They have already discovered who they are without taking the path of an intimate relationship, which I think is the primary context in which self-actualization takes place. (IMO)

There are benefits and costs in being single. A single person has great freedom and no extra responsibilities toward a mate. There is no one to question their decisions, slow them down, or disturb their inner solitude. On the other hand, they must either pick themselves up when they fall or find an alternate support group. When a single person gets sick or is hurt, they must either take themselves to the hospital or call on other family (if nearby) co-workers or friends. Sometimes one is just left to nurse oneself. This becomes more keenly apparent as a single person grows older, and body systems begin to decline.

I remember from a Ray Bradbury book a character who, whenever she felt funny, would run out onto the lawn just in case she was going to die. She didn't want her body to lie undiscovered in her home. Hahah!!

Nor is there anyone to share the daily joys with. I sang the tenor solo in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony several weeks ago. It's a powerful thing to sing "JOY" to an audience with a huge orchestra behind you--the connection, and pouring out of spirit. The other three soloist went home to spouses. I came home alone to a quiet apartment. In a way, it is more satisfying to do the little tasks in my day job and receive the genuine appreciation of my co-workers for serving them. (Don't get me wrong...I'll leave the "office-boy" gig in a heart beat if I can ever get more singing work.) If you choose the path of Church ministry, you will always be giving to people. They will never stop needing you, but who will feed you? This is the singular reason why I rejected, and still reject, any ministerial vocation for myself. I'm a solitary man, and I can't pour forever out of empty jars. I'm neither Jesus nor Paul. I will never understand the Catholic Church's requirement of celibacy for priests.

For me, the most difficult part of being single is that it narrows the social demographic within which I can naturally move. As friends get married, I become the odd man out. When they have children, the gap in our demographics widen further. Couples naturally spend time with couples...families with families...single people with singles. Being gay, of course, has already widened the chasm between me and much of society.

When I was in Oklahoma, I was the only gay guy I knew in Church. There was a lesbian couple there for awhile, but I never knew them. I had many friends there despite not being officially out to many. I think most everybody knew, but I was not comfortable yet. I worry that you will be unduly lonely in a Baptist Church where you are not likely to ever meet anyone who understands you as a gay man. I know that you say you are not naturally lonely...that you like being busy...but trust me, it creeps up on you. The need for friends and companionship is deeply innate. You can't run from it, and sadly many will never find it anyway even though they seek it.

Being single, I don't have any special praise for it. It happens... and we can still live beautiful, fulfilled lives, but I wouldn't ever advise anyone to choose it if they are given the other option. If you are given the opportunity--one not given to all--to be in a relationship that is honest and mutually fulfilling, don't turn it down because of a choice to be single.

With a guy, I mean.

_____________
PS: Does anybody else here have to go back through their posts and delete all the silly digressions that slink into their writing. Sheesh! Sometimes I write almost twice as much as I actually post, because...well...sometimes there's just no one at the wheel, if you know what I mean.

PPS: I probably shoulda deleted more.

[Zerbie]

What a heartfelt post Dash!

And haha, yea, I always hafta go back through these before posting them, since they're full of babble (might as well be typing out a grocery list sometimes for all that it relates to topic! )

I felt very moved reading Dash's thoughts about being single.

I've been married for 3 years, and I waited to discover that "who I was" thing before even considering, let alone choosing, a partner. Then when it came right down to it, I didn't do the choosing, Life did.

I second what Dash says, if you are fortunate enough to meet someone who you love who loves you in return, if it "clicks," and you are both available, you are so lucky! I thank the Lord of Life every day for the relationship with my husband. Any two people lucky enough to find real enduring love deserve to be celebrated. And I pray that more people receive this kind of blessing in their lives. Be open, and let Life happen. If you meet that Someone, what a gift!

Wishing you the best,

Zerbie

[maestro_di_cappella]

Wow, thanks for posting that. I understand exactly what you mean about being the "odd man out" as I am hanging out more and more with married couples as I get older. As a musician (I am a minister of music) I particularly relate to the whole post-performance syndrome. Sometimes I am a part of the most amazing things and there no one to tell that either doesn't understand what the big deal is, or otherwise they just think I'm bragging.

I suppose what I'm afraid of most is that I actually WILL meet someone and be faced with the impossible decision of being with them or rejecting a relationship.

Thanks also for posting the Baptist information. I am actually not ABC, but more aligned with CBF, whose official policy is anti-gay, yet there are several within the group that are affirming. Actually, I think the majority view within the CBF is "we definitely know how we DON'T want to act, but we really don't know what to DO with this."

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by maestro_di_cappella

I particularly relate to the whole post-performance syndrome. Sometimes I am a part of the most amazing things and there no one to tell that either doesn't understand what the big deal is, or otherwise they just think I'm bragging.

I suppose what I'm afraid of most is that I actually WILL meet someone and be faced with the impossible decision of being with them or rejecting a relationship.
."

I keep wanting to say don't worry about a scenario that hasn't happened yet and might not for a while. When you DO meet someone, things may have changed, either internally, externally, or both. Trust life to lead you in the right direction, to the right partner, at the right time. When it happens, THEN is when you will be faced with decisions. You can't make a hypothetical decision now and then hold yourself to it. Decisions will depends on all the details of your circumstance. So really, don't torment yourself about it now. Stay open to life, stay open to the possibility that God has planned for you already an unbelievably wonderful relationship that when it appears, will wipe away all questions. Put it in God's hands and trust that He will take care of it and lead you where you are meant to be.

I hear ya about going home to an empty apartment after a performance. What an awful let-down, since you're coming off that adrenal rush anyway, so then it crashes when you're sitting there alone. I always tried to head out with fellow performers for a while before going home, but sometimes that just wasn't possible.

[SolApollo]

Sorry for being late to the read, but here is my story (hope it helps)...

Currently, I'm in mid-20s, and coming out has been a mixed experience. However, I don't regret it. Like you, I tried to make myself into a heterosexual (obviously didn't work), dated women, and even tried being celebate (sp?). I hated it.

When I had my first intimate experience with another man, well, it was like magic. I felt free and wondered how could I ever want to be in a loveless relationship or be completely single. Surpisingly, my family has been very loving despite their conservative beliefs. My father is a fundamentalist pastor, and we get along fine now (we just don't dicuss the "gay issue"). Keep in mind: this took time. In work, initially - very negative. Now, seems to be nothing out of the ordinary for most people.

Being single again, I look forward to my next relationship, and hope to marry a wonderful, future partner.

In closing, here is a quote from one of my fav. novels:

"Blessed is he who knows himself and commands himself, for the world is his love and happiness, and peace walks with him wherever he goes" - Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger In A Strange Land.

[tdogg]

Maestro

You have a lot of contemplation, discovering yourself, dealing with your life in general that you need to get through - it's a journey that I hope you will relish through all its ups and downs. You're young, and you need to be the most important person - to you.

You don't have to make a decision to stay single or find a mate at this point. You just need to continue on your journey and find yourself. If life brings you a special someone, you can make decisions at that time. Remember to listen to your head, but lead with your heart (at least that's how I look at it). Too often we miss wonderful opportunities because our brain (or others) talk us out of it, we tend to ignore what our heart is telling us. Which is another reason why some of us stay in the closet (even to ourselves) for so long!

I wish you luck and joy in your journey, and a very warm welcome to the SF forum, where it looks like you have already found support, encouragement and friendship. Welcome!

[NathanATX]

Ever felt like an outcast? Ever felt like everyone else must have it easier than you? Especially when it comes to dating?

I'm not going to tell you that my dating experience is the same as yours, because I don't really know what life is like in your shoes... but let me share what's it been like for me.

I am lucky enough to look like and fit in with the "mainstream" gay crowd. I'm male; white; not overweight; not a model, but attractive; employed; have an SUV; etc.... On the outside, it seems like life should be super easy for me because I fit into expected stereotypes pretty well, right?

But look, finding the one person to spend your life with isn't as easy as finding a new outfit or changing your look. It's (most likely) not an automatic event for most people... even the "normal" ones. ("normal" is a figment of your imagination!)

I came out in 1999 at 21 years old... had an international email/phone relationship that never materialized beyond email/phone... dated a guy in another state and saw him twice... had numerous weekend flings that fizzled out when I (or him) sobered up... I've tried match.com, gay.com, bars, churches, etc.............

Some of that may sound "fun" or "glamourous" even... but remember that I was just a guy looking for love... and doing anything I could to get a glimpse of it.

About four years ago, I went home with a guy and moved in a few months later... thinking I had found "the one." We had a very difficult two year relationship. A lot of pain, hurting each other, and unneccessary drama.

After leaving him, I realized that he wasn't the problem... and I wasn't either. We just didn't take the time to get to know each other before making the relationship "permanent." I didn't really know who I was, what was important to me or what kind of guy I was really looking for. I tried to make it work for two dark years.

I hadn't really learned my lesson at that point and was still pretty casual about my dating and sexual habits. I continued to play the "hook up and see if it works out" game.

Until... (by this time I was back in church) I ran into a guy I had hooked up with and immediately discarded because he wasn't "on my level." He had actually come to church one day and he saw me. I knew he was hurt... and that I had caused that hurt.

I made a committment at that point to be responsible for my behavior AND my committment to follow Christ's command when he said to "love your neighbor as you love yourself." I was no longer going to cause that kind of harm in other people's lives.

Compassion is wanting God's best for others and to be willing to do anything to make that happen. -- Even giving up meeting your personal desires(sex) and needs(intimacy/love).

Maybe you were/are like I was... using people to meet your needs & desires. Or maybe you are one of those who, like a lot of people tell me, that are the ones who continually get teased, used and then discarded. And they end up blaming these other guys/gals for being users, abusers, etc.

Really taking on a committment to be compassionate & loving will bring an end to using & taking advantage of others... if that's what you've been doing. Read further to hear how I made this change...

And I know sometimes, if it seems you're always the one getting dumped on, it might be easy to think that this entire debacle is out of your control... but...

What I want you to consider is the possibility that you have some responsibility in the way you are being treated because of how you think/feel about yourself, your dating behavior and what you let other people get away with doing to you. I'm not saying anyone's behavior is justifiable-- at all, but you will never be able to control someone else's behavior, only your own.

What can you do to become responsible for your dating behavior?

What can you do to become responsible for finding someone who meets your needs & desires?

What can you do to become responsible for becoming someone who can meet the needs & desires of your partner?

Read "If the Buddha Dated."

Read "Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting."

Do the Landmark Forum www.landmarkeducation.com

Do some work on yourself with a therapist.

Get dating advice from married couples.

Spend time in prayer about God's plan for your life. Ask God what kind of man you are created to become. Ask God to lead you to the woman/man who will help you blossom as you help him/her grow at the same time.

Dream. Spend time each day imagining what your best life is going to be like. What will your wife/husband be like? Will you have kids? Where will you live? What will your relationship be like?

Remember that God's plans for you ARE for good. If there's a mess in your life, maybe it's a learning experience or maybe you're out of God's plan for your life. Listen to the voice of the Spirit.

When the enemy brings doubt, fear, feelings of unworthiness, depression, etc... be very clear that those things are not of God and ARE NOT TRUE. Jesus said the enemy comes to steal, kill & destroy, but He came so you could have LIFE, more and better life than you ever dreamed possible!

Honor yourself as a child of God. Set limits and boundaries with other people. Do not tolerate unloving or unkind behavior to continue against you. Don't let those actions get you down or make you upset--because they are ONLY reflective of the person doing them.

After doing these things & more, I ended up being abstinent for a year. (yes, you CAN still be gay/lesbian and be abstinent... it won't kill you... ) Of course, I didn't make a vow or pledge to not have sex, because those don't work... but I DID make that committment to be loving & compassionate in my dating life. I made a conscious choice to be more concerned about God's heart for the guys I was going out with as oppossed to being concerned with what I wanted from them.

And, yes, it was difficult. We've all been lonely, bored, or the hormones have been in hyperdrive... and then you're on a date with this attractive & energetic person who is maybe in the same place(or worse) as you and is willing do to whatever is on your mind in order to meet one of their needs.

Anytime that little voice started speaking in my spirit, I chose to listen. As a result, I know I avoided some huge mistakes. I avoided hurting some precious guys. I avoided hurting myself. More importantly though, by honoring myself as a precious and valueable child of God... I honored the other guy the same way. That is the essence of compassion and what it means to be a Christian: Love God and love your neighbor/friend/date/partner AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF.

You are so precious to God, dear ones. Honor God's love for you by simply accepting and believing it. Let an awareness of God's love guide your thoughts and your actions.

May the God of Love bring you into the Light of peace & compassion. May you know that Love in a new way. And may you extend your hands to everyone you meet and bring them into the same Light.

love,

Nate


P.S. After several years of ignoring the call of God, I decided to start visiting seminaries and get serious about ministry. I went to a weekend visit with about 40 other prospective students to a Methodisty seminary. One beautiful guy there kept distracting me and I was telling God "I'm not here looking for a man, I'm here to prepare for ministry!" But one thing led to another... and now I am incredibly blessed to be in a wonderful relationship with a man who is more than I even hoped to ask for... His name is Robert H. and he is my partner in ministry, my lover, my friend. He encourages me, challenges me, and laughs at me...

Love is worth waiting for, my friends. Wait for God's best for you! xo Nate