A root to a problem? I don't know.

[NonLemming]

There was an opinion piece published today in my local SC paper that I found interesting. I will paste it in its entirety, even though I want to focus on one of the important points the lady brings up.

Quote:
*****************************************
Israel didn't ask for war in Lebanon

All these letters complaining about Israel bombing Lebanon make you wonder if they know anything about the history of this area.

Even before 1948 this land belonged to Israel. It was given to them by God centuries ago.

But let's start with 1948 when Israel became a country again. The Palestinians were offered the opportunity to become a country. They turned it down because they did not want to share the territory with Israel. They want it all and they have vowed to push Israel into the sea.

When Israel left Lebanon, the United Nations mandated that the terrorist organization Hezbollah would not be allowed to build in strength. What happened to this? Hezbollah built camps, acquired weapons and put them along the border. If Israel stops the bombing now, the only thing that will happen is Hezbollah will continue and attack them.

It's sad that Lebanon is caught in the middle, but right now a lot of the Lebanese people are helping Hezbollah because they have helped their economy. The fact that they are using some of the Lebanese people as shields should tell them what kind of people they are dealing with. Israel wants nothing from its neighbors except peace.

What is important to remember here is that Israel was attacked and soldiers killed and kidnapped. Hezbollah started this war. What could Israel do? Just stand by and let them destroy them? This is war, and Hezbollah will not stop until they are destroyed or they win. God help us if that happens. We will be next.

Helen Talbert, Liberty, SC
*************************************************


This good lady brings up many good points and I applaud her courage for wanting to speak out in a public forum. I'd like to focus on her 2nd paragraph, which holds an opinion I think is shared by more than a few people.

"Even before 1948 this land belonged to Israel. It was given to them by God centuries ago."

Read it again, please.

If: the Israelis believe this land was given to them by God,

and

If: the Muslims believe this land was given to them by God,

they have both got a serious problem, and we who share the Earth with them suffer in the balance of their problem.

Either a) someone mistranslated one of the deeds handed over from God, or b) God is mean spirited and is playing out an emotional soap opera for his/her/its own enjoyment, or c) they're both wrong and God doesn't play favorites with regards to the humans of this planet. I opt for c, but understand and realize that there are many different interpretations of these things we call world religions.

I bring up this point not to say, "Well here is the answer to that." but maybe to see if anyone else can see not "that" this is a problem, but maybe another reason "why" this is a problem.

I welcome your rational thoughts. Thanks.
__________________

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by NonLemming

There was an opinion piece published today in my local SC paper that I found interesting. I will paste it in its entirety, even though I want to focus on one of the important points the lady brings up.

Quote:
*****************************************
Israel didn't ask for war in Lebanon

All these letters complaining about Israel bombing Lebanon make you wonder if they know anything about the history of this area.

Even before 1948 this land belonged to Israel. It was given to them by God centuries ago.

__________________

It seems to me we stand on shaky ground anytime we try to enlist God on our side in some dispute.

What does that mean for those of us who claim that God is on the side of justice for LGBT people? I guess we can at least go so far as to say that God is for justice, and then make our case simply for what is just without trying to bring "the big Guy" in on our side to "settle" the issue.

I am a Christian, but these "God is on our side" type of arguments tempt me to agree with some of the atheists.

Steven Webster

[NonLemming]

Thanks for that observation, Steven. Where does that leave us with regards to thoughts of Jerusalem and any other shared "original or promised lands" of religion? I don't know, but am very interested in other people's thoughts.

[Steven E. Webster]

Friends,

I'm one who tends to wonder whether 20th century Israeli's are stretching things too far when they claim to have a "God given" title to the "Holy Land."

On the other hand, I was just listening to a discussion on the Israel/Lebanon conflict on Air America which is certainly "leftist." I was surprised and pleased to hear it said (without challenge!) that the claims of BOTH Israeli's and Palestinians need to be recognized and a just negotiation and resolution needs to happen so that they can share Palestine/Israel.

I find it hard to argue with that. Though I wish I knew more about the whole 19th & 20th century history of this conflict--that is what seems most relevant to me. The ancient Middle East was so conflicted, and the actual period of Jewish Sovereignty in Israel/Judah/Palestine so short a piece of that history, it is hard to say who has a real "claim" to the Holy Land (unless one is a literalist about O.T. texts, and even then the God of the Hebrew Scriptures was more than willing to see the Jews exiled from their Promised Land.)

And then there is the issue of western greed for oil! What does that have to do with the way the 19th and 20th century British and Americans (and others) have been mixed up with Middle Eastern conflict? A great deal, I suspect, though I confess I don't know the history as well as I would like.

What, for instance, is the connection between British and American oil money and the Christian Fundamentalist movement and the Zionist movement? Alot more than one might suspect, I suspect.

Steven Webster

[zimnah]

This is a tough one for me.
I am a Jew, and my primary instinct is to shout "we need a homeland to hide from you!!!" Not the best approach, eh??
Look, the reality is, G-d did take definite steps toward Jews having their own land. Any time you take slaves out of the land in which they were enslaved, there are questions. But why are there so few questions concerning Liberia? Descendants of American slaves have reclaimed a bit of Africa, and there is little or no comment. But Jews?
I am not suggesting by any means that we attack Liberia's point of view...only that we check our response to Israel with it.
I believe that today's Jews NEED a homeland. Everyone else has a place to turn to. And we are entitled to it, as per Exodus and Deuteronomy. But the methods we are forced to employ are deplorable, and, as Kofi Anan suggests, these are not situations that can be resolved by military actions. The GLBTQ community has no country in which we can run to. Can we, in this forum, not understand a Jewish need to have a safe place, given the aftermath of the Holocaust? I think, as a Jew, that I wonder about the GLBTQ community not establishing a "safe zone" as Jews have. Please, I pray that you do not read my words as inflammatory...but the question persists: just as Jews are in every culture, so too are GLTBQ's. It is hard to explain in words, but I do see the difference in the need for a Jewish homeland and the need for GLBTQ communities in every part ofthe world. Does anyone have any feedback? I fear that, if I go on, then I run the risk of sermonizing...and I left the pulpit a long time ago!
I look forward to your input.
--Dawn

[NonLemming]

Originally Posted by zimnah

This is a tough one for me.
I am a Jew, and my primary instinct is to shout "we need a homeland to hide from you!!!" Not the best approach, eh??
Look, the reality is, G-d did take definite steps toward Jews having their own land. Any time you take slaves out of the land in which they were enslaved, there are questions. But why are there so few questions concerning Liberia? Descendants of American slaves have reclaimed a bit of Africa, and there is little or no comment. But Jews?
I am not suggesting by any means that we attack Liberia's point of view...only that we check our response to Israel with it.
I believe that today's Jews NEED a homeland. Everyone else has a place to turn to. And we are entitled to it, as per Exodus and Deuteronomy. But the methods we are forced to employ are deplorable, and, as Kofi Anan suggests, these are not situations that can be resolved by military actions. The GLBTQ community has no country in which we can run to. Can we, in this forum, not understand a Jewish need to have a safe place, given the aftermath of the Holocaust? I think, as a Jew, that I wonder about the GLBTQ community not establishing a "safe zone" as Jews have. Please, I pray that you do not read my words as inflammatory...but the question persists: just as Jews are in every culture, so too are GLTBQ's. It is hard to explain in words, but I do see the difference in the need for a Jewish homeland and the need for GLBTQ communities in every part ofthe world. Does anyone have any feedback? I fear that, if I go on, then I run the risk of sermonizing...and I left the pulpit a long time ago!
I look forward to your input.
--Dawn

Excellent points made, thank you. You do mention others reclaiming land that once was a point of origin for them. I can understand that desire and need. I do not know if the reclamations involved God's parcelling of land.

One sentence you wrote got to the heart of my point:

"I believe that today's Jews NEED a homeland. Everyone else has a place to turn to. And we are entitled to it, as per Exodus and Deuteronomy."

I too think that both Jews and Palenstinians need a homeland. The word that interests me is "entitled" because it is based on religious teaching. From all I have heard, both parties involved feel entitled. That makes for a very big conflict. Let's say that we don't use Exodus or Deuteronomy or anything in the Koran or any other teaching to base land ownership on. What then entitles people to land? I ask because I don't believe in Exodus, Deuteronomy or the Koran, so the argument has no emotional investment for me.

Like you, I don't mean my questioning to be confrontational, but I'm trying to understand the nature of the conflict and possible solutions for the conflict. I also don't know how long people who are not a part of this conflict, who's safety and resources are threatened by it, are supposed to put up with it.

Thanks for sharing your input. I appreciate it.